thanks for explaining my position, that is exactly what I mean
I do see a big difference between the FSSP parish and the NO parish. There are good things about the NO parish too, it’s not that liberal, there’s no liturgical abuse towards the Eucharist, the priest is good, he’s a good confessor… however… I’ll miss all the traditions, and silence, availability of Confession, spiritual direction, Adoration, St Michael prayer after Mass, and the richness of the liturgy. I love how we can receive Jesus kneeling, and not standing. I like that I can wear a veil and not be stared at. I like how people pray after Mass, the fact that the bookstore in the parish offers traditional Catholic books, the beautiful music that lifts the mind to God, the “day of recollection” the priests organized for the young adults in the parish, the excellent homilies, the Asperges Me, the fact that devotions like the brown scapular are known and encouraged, - and how all the prayers are detailed and the water is exorcized and all the blessed objects are sprinkled with the holy water. These things to me are not just aesthetics, - I think a lot of really effective ways to grow spiritually and be protected from the enemy. So I’m writing all this for the people reading this who don’t agree that I should prefer the TLM over the NO.
everything was done very casually. I came out there feeling a lot of sorrow and I basically had to just offer it up, and be thankful that at least the Eucharist was there. I know there are Novus Ordo Masses that are way way better than this. However… contrast that to the Ash Wednesday at the FSSP parish… well let’s just say it was completely different.where did I say it’s invalid???
Honestly, this is partly what kept me (and my family) out of the Catholic Church for so many years. I knew Catholicism was true (I “read myself” to that conclusion), but I felt that I was “too late” – that the Church I had read about was gone. The beauty of Catholicism and the Church’s Traditions were “watered down” so it could become more palatable to non-Catholics. I looked into NO Masses (less reverent ones than, apparently, you’ve found) and decided something wasn’t right here. When I finally came into the Church it was through the SSPX, but recently I’ve become uncomfortable because of some of their almost “cultish” tendencies. The fact that they had stated they were in existence for emergency purposes made sense to me. But recently it’s almost as if they are trying to create their own church, and I have serious issues with that, coming from Protestantism and its tendency to splinter. (I could be mistaken, but there seems to be a recent shift of some kind in SSPX and, I admit, I don’t fully understand it.) I don’t know how long these tendencies have been there – I’ve heard others speak of them, but apparently we have been shielded from the brunt of it by having good, well balanced priests. That recently changed at our old parish and, as luck (or providence) would have it, the local FSSP parish bought their own church building, which happened to be much closer to us then their old location. They’ve grown so quickly that they’ve had to add a third Mass on Sundays (not counting the one they hold on Sunday evening at another Church in a different city) and they now usually have two daily Masses (unless one of the priests is traveling).Hi,
I’m in a bit of a dilemma…
I became Catholic a couple years ago, and it was all based on the writings of the Saints, the devotions, the theology, etc… I had decided to be Catholic before I had ever been to Mass. When I went to Mass for the first time, and after, I loved the Eucharist, and Adoration, but to be honest I found everything else disappointing. Something was just really missing. It didn’t match with what I had read about…and all the things I came to love about Catholicism, so few even knew about them
Foul mouthed garbage. May God have mercy on your soul.How’s that NO church working out for you in San Fransico? Having a little problem with those paedophile “priests”
I agree
I remember watching the EWTN Masses and wishing I could attend something like that if not the TLM.Thanks for the advice… well I am trying to just focus on the Eucharist when I’m’ at the Novus Ordo, but I just don’t believe that it’s as good as the TLM
I don’t know… it’s the lack of reverence sometimes… it’s not the essence of the Mass, but the way everything is done. I believe that’s important to. Of course, I can’t speak for God… but I have always believed that the TLM helps people more spiritually, and that because of its reverence, it is more pleasing to Heaven. and I struggle with many things. I don’t consider myself a good Catholic or Christian. I’m talking about the rituals, not people’s hearts. I find the rituals at the TLM *help *me better.that is what i felt too… I also read myself into the Church and the Catholicism I found didn’t match the Catholicism I read about. It caused me a lot of confusion and I almost didn’t become Catholic, the day of the Easter Vigil… the reason I became Catholic ultimately is because of the doctrines. Later on, I realized the Catholicism I read about didn’t go anywhere, people just aren’t aware of it to a large degree. It’s still there though. THe reason I loved the FSSP parish is because people there are aware of it. I finally felt at home. I also received really helpful spiritual direction here… I prayed earnestly for a spiritual director and I feel God sent a great priest to help me… well now I have to leave, and I’m not sure who to talk to about my spiritual life when I’m back home. I struggle with many things and I need direction. I hope that God would send me a spiritual director again lol.
I feel similarly…I really sympathize with what they had to go through in the beginning, when so many opposed them, just because they wanted to do the Latin Mass and encourge good catechesis… it’s the schism part that saddens me. I do believe they’ll eventually reunite, and the excommunications have already been lifted. But one of the things I like about the FSSP more is that they are in communion, and while it’s acknowledged that the TLM is more beautiful, and that perhaps the NO has problems in its external form, - there’s no anger towards the rest of the Church… and some sedevacantists or traditionalists I’ve met were really angry. I don’t think that is good, even if traditional Catholicism is closer to what should be. I also think it’s important to stay with Pope Benedict.
that’s great!
the FSSP parish I go to also has 2 daily Masses, and 3 Masses on Sunday. (1 High Mass, 2 Low Masses).totally agree
there is always Confession available… before every single Mass… even on Easter Vigil and Easter morning. The priest who is my confessor has spent hours talking to me outside of the scheduled Confession time, just giving me spiritual advice on things I was struggling with. The other two priests are also always available and have been really helpful. I just think that’s so awesome, and inspiring, that they are very dedicated priests. We hear too often about bad priests, not enough about the good ones thanks for the advice,
It would be cool to stay, but I don’t think I can… I don’t have a job here and the job market for my profession is really limited in this area. Also my lease expires, and I feel it’s important to be with my family right now. Maybe someday I’ll come back or if i get a car, I can go to the Latin Mass that’s an hour away. (but that would be only on Sundays. I’ll miss daily Mass!) so I’m looking for another type of headcovering - something less noticeable. But also, practically no one prays by the Tabernacle after Mass, and I’ve always felt like I’m attacting attention by doing this too. I don’t want to seem like a “holier than thou” “better Catholic than you” sort of person… that’s not it at all… I’ve just always done thankgiving after Communion because that’s what i read we should do, and it’s just seems natural somehow. My friends do this too but all except one of them are at other parishes - too far away. There are also other things that are influenced by the TLM, like I wish I could kneel for the blessing, and I only receive Communion on the tongue - from the priest, never a lay person. I carry this really traditional looking prayer book that I read sometimes after Mass… I dont’ know, I just feel uncomfortable being almost the only person my age at my parish (I’m in my early 20s) who does these things and - I don’t want to stand out… at my current parish, there are so many young people who are way more devout than me, so instead of feeling uncomfortable I feel humbled by them. At my Novus Ordo parish, I’m always trying to not be tempted to pride, at the same time not lessening what I feel I should do, out of devotion. I admit there’s absolutely nothing that i do that is worth being proud about. For example, I genuflect, and that’s nothing special because you’re supposed to. It’s just tough when mostly everyone else your age doesnt, and wears revealing clothing, leaves right after Mass, receives in the hand, etc. - it’s discouraging but also tempts to arrogance or thinking too much about what others are doing… that’s why I like to just keep my eyes closed and pray to the Blessed Sacrament. **HOw are we supposed to strive to become Saints, and do more than is required, when we attract undue attention just by doing the bare minimum of the faith??? ** at the Latin Mass parish, I felt humbled, challenged, both by my priest and others there… at the Novus Ordo parish, I don’t get that, I just go there for the Sacraments and the homily and get the rest from spiritual books. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and haven’t said it to anyone, until now.Your words…“I think that if a person has an opportunity to go to a Latin Mass parish, they should… but if their only option is Novus Ordo, that doesn’t dispense them from fulfilling their Sunday obligation, and it’s always better to have the Sacraments.”
Perhaps you should spend less time on anti-OF websites and more time understanding the nature and the meaning of the Mass. Communion in the hand, Eucharistic ministers, altar rails, female servers, music liturgical dancing, CLOWN MASSES, etc., etc., are all red herring arguments, made by those who couch their dislike for the OF by trying to claim fidelity to the pope. The statement "TLM is far superior" is simply a nonsensical thing to say, devoid of any meaning and absent understanding of the liturgy of the Mass.
There are those words “I think” again. You would be wise to understand that there are many “traditional” movements who have separated themselves from the unity of the Catholic Church because of what they “thought” true Catholicism should be. By the way, that is a very judgmental thing to say.
What a relief. Is your support something that local bishops should strive for?
I am not attacking you; I am responding to YOUR attacks upon the Ordinary Form of the Mass. You are doing the same thing in this thread that you did in the Is It True? thread. You assert your own personal opinions then respond with everything YOU think is wrong with the way the Church is today. Tell me; did anyone tell you that, yes, it *is *true that Pope Paul was replaced with an imposter to sign the Vatican II documents in order to further the modernists agenda?I asked a question from other traditional Catholics. I didn’t say anything about the validity of the Novus Ordo. I consider it valid I just think it has many problems right now. I also didn’t say that my Sunday obligation is not fulfilling in the Novus Ordo Mass. So please stop attacking me thanks
The implication is that any priests who celebrates the Ordinary Form of the Mass is a “modernist.” Is this really what you are saying? Is this how you "stay in communion with Pope Benedict?"
I don’t understand your point. Why are you arguing with me? I’m not here to argue. I came here to the traditional forum which I thought was a safe haven for people who are - traditional.
it’s not like I posted this at the Spirituality forum or Apologetics.actually… what those websites say is that because of all those things, the NO is INVALID. I never said it’s invalid. I said - those things lessen its reverence, beauty, and depth of spirituality. Which - they do. Secondly, I’m very supportive of the Pope! So…
I’m not replying to this because you are putting words in my mouth.
umm… how is disagreeing with Communion in the hand, female altar servers, liturgical abuse, and hippie guitar music an attack on the Novus Ordo??? the Holy Father said the Mass should only have Gregorian chant. Is he attacking the Novus Ordo too? why is opposing liberalism and all the stuff that’s crept into the Church - an attack on the Church? The (faithful) traditional movement is actually supporting Catholicism, not attacking it. The liberals are attacking it and destroying it.
that thread was asking a question, I never said there that this is what I believe. I found an article that I couldn’t figure out and asked questions about it - surely not a big deal.
you’re picking on my words
Observation #1) Use of the term ‘novus ordo’ is a traditionalists slam of the Mass of Pope Paul VI (kind of like using the ‘n’ word). Pope Benedict XVI has stated that the correct terms are Ordinary Form of the Mass (OF) and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (EF). To continue to use the terms of ‘novus ordo’ and ‘TLM’ shows that you are not in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
Yes, that is often the case, but as I read the OP and subsequent responses, that simply is not the tone. I read a genuine concern and longing in the words Monica has written. It may be that she is facing a time of trial and “dark night”, in which case there is an opportunity to learn better how to walk by faith and not sight. We should all be encouraging of her whatever her journey holds. On the other hand, if St. John of the Cross had internet access, perhaps he would not have offered so much to us today.
The pope did no such thing. In his motu proprio Summorom Pontificum, he used the phrase “extraordinary form” as a description of the old Mass. In the letter that accompanied the motu, he used the phrase “ordinary Form” to describe the new Mass. In neither document did he use the phrases as names, nor did he did call on other people to do so.
Okay you know what guys… I regret making this thread. I’m thankful for the constructive responses that many people have given. But - you’re saying I’m not in communion with Pope Benedict because I say “Novus Ordo” or “TLM”?
I’m sorry but…? I’ve always used those terms in my mind, because - for example the TLM stands of the “Tridentine Latin Mass”, which is what it is. I’m in communion with the Pope because:I will see if he would be open to this.
thanks for the support
I understand this, but her use of these terms may be the cause of the ‘uncharitable’ reactions. That’s why my post is not an attack, but a correction.
that is kind of what I thought… as in: the TLM is the extraordinary form of the Mass. TLM: title. Extraordinary form: clarifies its liturgical function.
What I experienced on Easter Sunday would take a miracle to correct.I think someday the Mass will more and more reverent
What parish is this??