Being a traditional Catholic in a Novus Ordo parish

[MikeDunphy]

I became Catholic a couple years ago, and it was all based on the writings of the Saints, the devotions, the theology, etc… I had decided to be Catholic before I had ever been to Mass. When I went to Mass for the first time, and after, I loved the Eucharist, and Adoration, but to be honest I found everything else disappointing. Something was just really missing. It didn’t match with what I had read about…and all the things I came to love about Catholicism, so few even knew about them

Monica, I think an obvious thing to do would be to keep reading. Tan Books and Sophia Institute Press offer a lot of good books to help you grow spiritually.

I think you mentioned Adoration in your parish. If you were to help with that, or a rosary or pro-life group, or any other activity that seems to be in harmony with traditional Catholicism, that might give you more of a chance of meeting kindred spirits. You might meet some that shy away from the traditionalist label, but still have a more traditional side to them. I see a self-described “Novus Ordo” type in this very thread, who in a short post plus signature referenced no fewer than three Catholic saints in a devout and reasonable way. You can have a meeting of minds with someone like that, as long as you avoid a few controversial subjects. In real life, I met someone like that in my parish in a small crowd of more progressive types.

 

[Monica4316]

What I experienced on Easter Sunday would take a miracle to correct.

I think eventually it would happen though

When everything will seem lost and paralyzed, that will be “the happy beginning of the complete restoration. This will mark the arrival of my hour, when I, in a marvelous way, will dethrone the proud and cursed Satan, trampling him under my feet and fettering him in the infernal abyss.” It is the promise echoed by Our Lady again at Fatima in 1917: “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph.”

olrl.org/prophecy/goodsuccess.shtml

Monica, I think an obvious thing to do would be to keep reading. Tan Books and Sophia Institute Press offer a lot of good books to help you grow spiritually.

I have never heard of Sophia Institute Press, but most of my Catholic books are from TAN… I read books by the Saints, etc… I find they have really helped me spiritually it might be encouraging to read them when I’ll no longer have access to this parish…

I think you mentioned Adoration in your parish.

the FSSP parish has Adoration… but the one back home does not, sadly. Many people do not genuflect, and very very few pray after Mass. I wish there was Adoration… maybe there’s a concern that not many will come.

If you were to help with that, or a rosary or pro-life group, or any other activity that seems to be in harmony with traditional Catholicism, that might give you more of a chance of meeting kindred spirits. You might meet some that shy away from the traditionalist label, but still have a more traditional side to them. I see a self-described “Novus Ordo” type in this very thread, who in a short post plus signature referenced no fewer than three Catholic saints in a devout and reasonable way. You can have a meeting of minds with someone like that, as long as you avoid a few controversial subjects. In real life, I met someone like that in my parish in a small crowd of more progressive types.

that makes sense, thanks for the advice

God bless!

 

[pnewton]

What I experienced on Easter Sunday would take a miracle to correct.

I think eventually it would happen though

We are a Church built on miracles. Furthermore, we believe firmly in the power of prayer. Despair and surrender are not part of who we are.

 

[amsjj]

Dear Monica,

I found your message extremely moving, and I completely understand where you’re coming from. I can only reiterate the suggestion of the early morning Masses, as they tend to be more reverent. Oh, if only the EF were more widely available! I ask my saints daily for their prayers in this.

take care,
amsjj

+++
Jesus, God and man,
imprisoned by love in Thy most holy Sacrament,
have mercy upon us.
– Blessed John Henry Newman, December 22, 1851

Tú y yo sabemos por la fe que oculto en las especies sacramentales está Cristo,
ese Cristo con su Cuerpo, con su Sangre, con su Alma, y con su Divinidad,
prisonero de amor.
– San Josemaria Escriva, 1 junio 1974

 

[SouthpawLink]

Observation #1) Use of the term ‘novus ordo’ is a traditionalists slam of the Mass of Pope Paul VI (kind of like using the ‘n’ word). Pope Benedict XVI has stated that the correct terms are Ordinary Form of the Mass (OF) and the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (EF). To continue to use the terms of ‘novus ordo’ and ‘TLM’ shows that you are not in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Did not Pope Paul VI himself call it the Novus Ordo on 24 May 1976?

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/speeches/1976/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19760524_concistoro_lt.html

And in audiences given on 19 and 26 November 1969, did he not explicitly call it “the new rite of Mass” and the “new liturgical rite”? In fact, he used the phrase, “new rite” no less than six times in those two speeches:

“We want to draw your attention on the event that is about to take [place] in the Latin Catholic Church, and which will have its mandatory application in the Italian diocese from the next first Sunday of Advent, which this year falls on November 30, and that’s [the] introduction into the liturgy of the new rite of Mass.* The Mass will be celebrated in a form quite different from what, for four centuries now, that is, S. Pius V after the Council of Trent, we are used to celebrate. …* And if placed in the new rite will find greater clarity in the relationship between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist itself…” (Audience of 19 November 1969).

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/audiences/1969/documents/hf_p-vi_aud_19691119_it.html

“Again we want to invite your mind to turn to the novelty of the new liturgical rite of the Mass, which will be established in our celebrations of the Holy Sacrifice, beginning next Sunday, the first Sunday of Advent, November 30.* New rite of Mass is a change, which concerns a venerable old tradition, and therefore affects our hereditary religious patrimony, which seemed to enjoy having unintangibile of fixity, and having to carry on our lips the prayer of our ancestors and our Saints, and give us the comfort of a fidelity to our spiritual past, which we then forward it makes present to the coming generations. …* As we said last time, you know that we understand the reasons for which this major change is introduced: obedience to the Council…* But then the new rite of Mass states that the faithful “should know how to sing 'together, in Latin, at least the parts of the Ordinary of the Mass, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, the Our Father” (n. 19). …* If they use the new rite should follow the official text in the vernacular with the concessions outlined above” (Audience of 26 November 1969).

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/audiences/1969/documents/hf_p-vi_aud_19691126_it.html

So, is the NOM a new rite (Paul VI) or just the ordinary form of the same Roman rite (Benedict XVI)?

 

[Lormar]

Monica,

You have my vote!

God bless you, dear soul, and I will pray for you.

 

[TrueLight]

I wanted to confirm that a latin mass offered at a Parish was the PF, so I asked in the front office.

I asked, “Is the 9 AM latin mass the extraordinary form or ordinary form?”. They all gave me blank looks. They asked, “The what?”

I clarified, “Is it Novus Ordo or Tridentine?”. So then they said, “Oh… Tridentine”.

The people in the office were a guy in his early twenties, a woman in her thirties and a woman in her fifties.

Sometimes I get the impression that outside of the forum, no one is saying EF or OF.

 

[ProVobis]

The pope did no such thing. In his motu proprio Summorom Pontificum, he used the phrase “extraordinary form” as a description of the old Mass. In the letter that accompanied the motu, he used the phrase “ordinary Form” to describe the new Mass. In neither document did he use the phrases as names, nor did he did call on other people to do so.

(I’ve linked to both documents if you want to verify my claim).

In addition to “forma extraordinaria” (actually the accusative is used) he also uses “extraordinaria expressio” and “ordinaria expressio.” Just saying, in case one in another country wants to use the acronyms FE, EE, or OE.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum_lt.html

 

[ProVobis]

So, is the NOM a new rite (Paul VI) or just the ordinary form of the same Roman rite (Benedict XVI)?

Another translation inaccuracy. “Ritus” would have been “rite.” I believe he used “novus Ordo Missae” meaning the new Order of Mass. “Novus ritus” would have been a violation of Trent.

 

[Link0126]

blah blah blah, so tired of all the NO haters. Latin Mass this Latin Mass that…Get off your high horse. Really sick of this nonsense…

 

[corsair]

Hey Nowhere man,

Its St. Francis Xavier mission parish near Toledo, WA. PM me if you want more info.

 

[pnewton]

Did not Pope Paul VI himself call it the Novus Ordo on 24 May 1976?
And in audiences given on 19 and 26 November 1969, did he not explicitly call it “the new rite of Mass” and the “new liturgical rite”? In fact, he used the phrase, “new rite” no less than six times in those two speeches:

You can find many uses of the word novus back when it was actually novus. Let me ask this. If a woman married a widower, how do you think she would respond to being called the man’s new wife that year? How do you think she would feel about this if she was called the man’s new wife after twenty years of marriage?

 

[archangel04]

blah blah blah, so tired of all the NO haters. Latin Mass this Latin Mass that…Get off your high horse. Really sick of this nonsense…

Lol looks like someone got their feelings hurt

 

[kozlosap]

sorry I misunderstood and took it as another attack… .not your fault (mine)

I think someday the Mass will more and more reverent apparently it’s already better than the 70s and 80s. (in most parishes). MIght take another council… or a miracle.

Monica- I’m confused, I thought you stated you were in your early 20’s so how do you know how reverent or non-reverent OF masses were in the 70’s and 80’s? Reverence is like beauty, it changes with each beholder.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Hey Nowhere man,

Its St. Francis Xavier mission parish near Toledo, WA. PM me if you want more info.

Thank you for the information Corsair, but unfortunately its about a two hour drive from me. Oh well, it’s always nice to know that there are solid, orthodox parishes around.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

So, I did not read this thread all the way through because I don’t honestly have the time…
but I did read the phrase, “I will just focus on the Eucharist” during the Novus Ordo mass a few times…

Just want to point out that while this may be good, you really need to focus also on the Word of God…the readings are inspired Scripture and worthy of your veneration as well, no matter what you feel about the mass.

Maybe you could try praying lectio divina with the readings before mass…give the Holy Spirit a chance to work.

and I would be careful thinking that it is hard to strive for holiness in a non-traditional parish. you might be surprised to find how many of the people in parishes you look down on as doing the bare minimum are actually striving for holiness too, maybe even surpassing those you think are doing everything right.

 

[Monica4316]

Monica- I’m confused, I thought you stated you were in your early 20’s so how do you know how reverent or non-reverent OF masses were in the 70’s and 80’s? Reverence is like beauty, it changes with each beholder.

based on what people have told me. I don’t think it changes with each beholder… the descriptions I got of the Masses back then, kind of saddened me I don’t mean at ALL parishes… but apparently there was a lot of liberalism. (we can still see it in some places).

My standard of the most reverent Mass is the TLM.

 

[Califman831]

Monica- I’m confused, I thought you stated you were in your early 20’s so how do you know how reverent or non-reverent OF masses were in the 70’s and 80’s? Reverence is like beauty, it changes with each beholder.

having grown up during those decades Monica I can tell you that you are right on, it has gotten worse and worse. The mass has gone from reverent to a theatrical event. Especially last week when the charismatics had a large screen monitor set up outside the church to show the skit they were doing on the altar area. The altar was moved back by the performers so they could do the passion.

 

[pnewton]

… looks like someone got their feelings hurt

Perhaps they did not notice the forum they were posting in.

 

[PA650]

based on what people have told me. I don’t think it changes with each beholder… the descriptions I got of the Masses back then, kind of saddened me I don’t mean at ALL parishes… but apparently there was a lot of liberalism. (we can still see it in some places).

My standard of the most reverent Mass is the TLM.

It will be a slow movement, but a new liturgical movement is emerging brought about by His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI. Thus, a return to tradition in the common celebration of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite rather than a situation of rupture that at times characterizes the Missal of Paul VI.

I am convinced that this motu proprio (summorum pontificum) can help toward the achievement of the hope expressed in his time by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger: “A renewal of liturgical awareness, a liturgical reconciliation that again recognizes the unity of the history of the liturgy and that understands Vatican II, not as a breach, but as a stage of development: these things are urgently needed for the life of the Church… That is why we need a new Liturgical Movement, which will call to life the real heritage of the Second Vatican Council.” The Old Mass and The New, Bishop Marc Aillet.

I have read through many of your posts in this thread and I certainly agree with much you have written. With your change in parishes, I would view that situation as a cross you’ll just have to bear at this time.