Being gay is in your genes

[Catolico65]

That being said being gay is not a “choice”. It is not something people fall into due to peer pressure. It is a deep seating and fixed orientation.

With all due respect there is nothing that supports this claim. The fact is for the majority of people SSA is temporary.

The real tragedy is professionals like you and others telling people they were born to have SSA, when there is absolutely no definitive scientific evidence to sustain this theory, on the contrary. Jesus is not impressed that we are convincing people that God created people to sin, not at all.

 

[Lormar]

With all due respect there is nothing that supports this claim. The fact is for the majority of people SSA is temporary.

The real tragedy is professionals like you and others telling people they were born to have SSA, when there is absolutely no definitive scientific evidence to sustain this theory, on the contrary. Jesus is not impressed that we are convincing people that God created people to sin, not at all.

 

[pepipop]

I went to a clothing store a chose some jeans!

*Originally Posted by ringil View Post
I don’t know anyone in my field (mental health) who ever believed that homosexuality was solely attributable to biological factors. THat would be pretty odd as almost nothing in the psycho-social realm is- including heterosexuality.

Homosexuality, like nearly every other psychological schemata is the effect of bio-psycho-social factors formed over a lifetime.

That being said being gay is not a “choice”. It is not something people fall into due to peer pressure. It is a deep seating and fixed orientation.*
Yes, you are quite right it is not a choice.

My response was in relation to the OP’s original statement. It cannot be denied that some people are distraught at being born with SSA, many commit suicide, a lot have stated they would give anything to be ‘straight’. So, it is not a ‘choice’ in their minds.

 

[altms]

With all due respect there is nothing that supports this claim. The fact is for the majority of people SSA is temporary.

The real tragedy is professionals like you and others telling people they were born to have SSA, when there is absolutely no definitive scientific evidence to sustain this theory, on the contrary. Jesus is not impressed that we are convincing people that God created people to sin, not at all.

Absolutely agree.

 

[pnewton]

Jesus is not impressed that we are convincing people that God created people to sin, not at all.

We are not created to sin, but we are created and come into the world stained by original sin and suffer from concupiscence. My only objection is that when the concupiscence involved in homosexual temptation is thought somehow to be unique.

 

[ringil]

With all due respect there is nothing that supports this claim. The fact is for the majority of people SSA is temporary.

The real tragedy is professionals like you and others telling people they were born to have SSA, when there is absolutely no definitive scientific evidence to sustain this theory, on the contrary. Jesus is not impressed that we are convincing people that God created people to sin, not at all.

Licensed professionals like myself- including hundreds of Catholic Priests acting as therapists- are not in the business of expressing or promoting Catholic morality in our clients. That would be grossly abusive and at the very height of unethical behavior.

It seems you are not aware of what the role of a mental health professional is.

Therapists are not evangelizers, apologists, spiritual directors, or pastors.

 

[Trader]

Licensed professionals like myself- including hundreds of Catholic Priests acting as therapists- are not in the business of expressing or promoting Catholic morality in our clients. That would be grossly abusive and at the very height of unethical behavior.

It seems you are not aware of what the role of a mental health professional is.

Therapists are not evangelizers, apologists, spiritual directors, or pastors.

I understand what you are saying, but in my experience, some therapists cross over the line in the opposite direction. I was personally told by a Catholic therapist dealing with two Catholic clients after one had already filed for divorce, that “there is no such thing as right or wrong, only what we have been taught”. At the time we were discussing the use of perjury by my now ex-wife in order to get me out of the house. To me, that is imposing a view of moral relativism.

I am not a lawyer or a therapist, but perjury is both intrinsic evil and a felony crime. I believe my ex-wife’s own therapist knew that she was going straight from a secret counseling session to the lawyer’s office where she falsely swore that I had threatened her. That therapist may even have been guilty of subornation of perjury, but a conviction would have been nearly impossible, because the only witness against her would have been an admitted perjurer.

 

[estesbob]

The flip side of that irony, of course, would be that some of those people who are horrified, disgusted, angered about homosexuality but are against abortion now…may then want it to be legal, so that they won’t have to have a gay child.

.

Actually the opposite is true. People who are pro-abortion have been pushing to make aborting because of homosexuality illegal.

lifenews.com/2005/02/25/nat-1206/

 

[marymary1975]

The operative word is “believe”. I am not a cynic with regard to homosexual temptation. I am a skeptic. I do not believe all that I read. I am also a fellow sinner and I know that my actions, especially sinful ones, can influence my moral compass. It is often pointed out here, and rightly so, that the sin of homosexuality is but one of many sins. I believe this and try to understand that such people who fall in this manner are not necessarily worse than other sinners who fall in other grave areas. Since that is what I believe, I also view it as other sins when it comes to what is genetic, what is something we are “born with”, what extent we are influenced by others, and to what extent we can increase or decrease our desires.

Homosexual promoters in the Church can not have it both ways. If one is just born gay in a way in a that differs from the rest of humanity just being born sinful, then then the claim that it is just one sin among many, the same as adultery, heterosexual lust, greed, etc., is a hypocritical claim. Since I believe the latter, I am a skeptic as to the former.

I prefer less dramatic and what I believe to be a more accurate understanding that one may have a genetic disposition (yet to be proven, but still a matter of science not faith) to sexual attraction to someone of the same sex, or opposite sex, or child, etc., just like one may have a genetic predisposition to violence. Saying one is born gay is too akin to saying one is born a murder, a womanizer, or a child-molester.

 

[manualman]

That being said being gay is not a “choice”. It is not something people fall into due to peer pressure. It is a deep seating and fixed orientation.

This is your field and you still fall for the blunder of making universalizing statements like that? People are complex, as you should well know. While I certainly agree that many, perhaps most people with same sex attraction experience it as a fixed, deep seated personality feature, it’s just plain ignorant to assert that people don’t exist who FOR A TIME in life, self-identified as gay but later recognize that their inclinations in that direction were caused by something resolvable.

In any case, I find the whole subject of genetics and homosexuality to be a red herring. The source of the motivation has nothing to do with whether acting on that motivation is good for the person or not. Gay activists take for granted that if they prove that their desires are innate, then they are good. Do we REALLY want to adopt such a principle for human behavior?

 

[Catolico65]

We are not created to sin, but we are created and come into the world stained by original sin and suffer from concupiscence. My only objection is that when the concupiscence involved in homosexual temptation is thought somehow to be unique.

My goal is never to split hairs but the origin of homosexuality should not be overlooked as not important. The fact is there is a very well developed logical argument used by the gay lobby to promote homosexuality as normal based on the assumption that it is biological. I have been aware and been part of many discussions for almost 25 years in person and on forums where this argument is first planted and then followed up with relentless pseudo science and supposed “consensus” to try to sway public opinion. This is clearly evident on protestant websites that have embraced homosexuality. The first step of course is to convince the audience that homosexuality is biological or at the very least “the possibility” that it could be. The second step after establishing enough consensus of the probable biological origin of homosexuality is to propose that all that God has created is good, and thus since homosexuality is innate it must be good. The third step is of course embracing homosexual doctrine.

Understanding this nefarious, well developed and very, very successful argument by the gay lobby to convert people to their cause it is only prudent to investigate the facts thoroughly before assuming that homosexuality could be innate:

1. Anything ordained by God’s plan is good, such as heterosexual desires, with qualifications of course. Homosexuality, on the other hand is not ordained by God under any conditions but is an unnatural psychological condition.
2. There is absolutely no definitive scientific evidence that any biological condition can cause a person to sin, none. Certainly here are many suggestive studies about homosexual, alcoholic and “murder” genes but these are very speculative and not definitive.

Furthermore, in the case of a truly biological condition, such as severe mental retardation, the person cannot sin. Using the same logic if homosexuality were biological it would not be a sin to manifest it in certain situations. Nonetheless, the Bible is clear, God hates homosexuality - even much more than many other sins, such as adultery, because He is certainly aware of it’s overwhelming corrosive effects to the person and society. The fact is that homosexual sex does not fulfill but rather creates spiritual desolation which causes the person to become even more desperate for false fulfillment inducing them to find more partners. This is truly a downward spiral with no positive end.

Finally, I think it should be self evident to my Christian brothers that these tactics which I have discussed are used frequently here on CAF with no doubt similar objectives and as such we need to be prepared to withstand this barrage of pseudo logic, pseudo science and neglect of Scripture in order that people aren’t misled. Paz.

 

[ringil]

I understand what you are saying, but in my experience, some therapists cross over the line in the opposite direction. I was personally told by a Catholic therapist dealing with two Catholic clients after one had already filed for divorce, that “there is no such thing as right or wrong, only what we have been taught”. At the time we were discussing the use of perjury by my now ex-wife in order to get me out of the house. To me, that is imposing a view of moral relativism.

I am not a lawyer or a therapist, but perjury is both intrinsic evil and a felony crime. I believe my ex-wife’s own therapist knew that she was going straight from a secret counseling session to the lawyer’s office where she falsely swore that I had threatened her. That therapist may even have been guilty of subornation of perjury, but a conviction would have been nearly impossible, because the only witness against her would have been an admitted perjurer.

If a therapist pushes their own agenda- whatever agenda- that is unethical.

We seek to help folks understanding themselves. It is dangerous and abusive to see oneself as a therapist as a “teacher” or morality.

I do agree that some to cross over the line- but most do not.

Here is an example. I used to work with the elderly and I had client who lamented about his lost sex life and how he felt alone. In the process of assessing his “sexual-self” I asked him if her masturbated. He stated “no that’s wrong.”

I told my supervisor about this and she said “I hope you told him it wasn’t wrong”. I told her that it wasn’t my place to do this as that is the way he felt. When I said this she actually said “boy, you are right.”

I have worked with virulently racist folks ( and I hate racism- it’s my personal bone if you will) but I don’t spend my time telling them they are wrong. I talk about their emotions and their thoughts.

 

[John_Savage]

According to this, genes can’t explain most of why people are homosexual. There are other factors.

 

[ringil]

According to this, genes can’t explain most of why people are homosexual. There are other factors.

I’ve never met a professional who thought or said that homosexuality was due completely to genetics.

 

[John_Savage]

OK. So, why the title of the thread. It should read, “Homosexuality mostly NOT genetic.”

 

[Suudy]

The source of the motivation has nothing to do with whether acting on that motivation is good for the person or not. Gay activists take for granted that if they prove that their desires are innate, then they are good. Do we REALLY want to adopt such a principle for human behavior?

Exactly. This entire culture of “be true to who you are” has gone to the extreme.

Somebody posted here a long time ago something (I think) profound. I’ve reposted a few times, but this example really demonstrates its profundity.

Paraphrasing: We have abandoned the primacy of intellect and have embraced the primacy of will.

It’s no longer about what one should do, but what one wants to do.

 

[pnewton]

My goal is never to split hairs but the origin of homosexuality should not be overlooked as not important.

I didn’t say it is not important. However, all sin is important. It is what stains our souls - all of us. However, the Holy Father has indicated that we can be overly focused on this one sin (or anyone sin).

Nonetheless, the Bible is clear, God hates homosexuality - even much more than many other sins, such as adultery, because.

I don’t remember God saying this, or indicating homosexuality to be worse than adultery. Here are seven things God hates:

There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Seven abominations God hates, not even one is sexual. Imagine that. We should not rank sins in ways that neither God nor the Church ranks them. Furthermore, we need no rank them until our own eyes are clear of our own beams. It should suffice to say that homosexuality is gravely disordered and the acts that arise from it, gravely sinful.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Actually, you’ve misunderstood the research. Being gay is entirely in your jeans. Heterosexual people wear straight jeans, bisexuals wear slim jeans, and skinny jeans are worn by homosexuals.

 

[Monkey1976]

Actually, you’ve misunderstood the research. Being gay is entirely in your jeans. Heterosexual people wear straight jeans, bisexuals wear slim jeans, and skinny jeans are worn by homosexuals.

Point of order: Stephen Fry is wearing khakis in you signature image, not skinny jeans.

 

[John_Savage]

Anyways, according to the article, genetics doesn’t explain most of homosexuality. Is that correct? If genetics doesn’t explain most of homosexuality, then what are the other factors?