Being gay, lesbian, transgender

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boldlygo said:
Your figures go back to Masters & Johnson, and are totally flawed.
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None of the statistics about the number of people who are gay or lesbian or bisexual are very reliable. When surveys are done, many people are not completely forthcoming or honest about their sexuality, especially when it comes to things that have a lot of stigma attached to them. They might not even be honest with themselves if they have desires and attractions that they feel ashamed of.

I bet that most men don’t admit in surveys how often they masturbate. Survey statistics on this are probably much lower than what really happens.
 
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So you think that the Church might change how it defines sin to include not just actions but also desires and thoughts?
 
Because the devils tell one another. They are deceitful. They were already fallen angels before creation began.
When we disobey the Lord by going to psychics we are opening the door to the devil’s lying tricks.
 
Augustinian said:
really most people, don’t see someone as a pedophile or a homosexual for that matter unless they are taking action on it.
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Then most people are wrong. The definition of a pedophile is a person with a sexual attraction to children. That doesn’t mean that they are a child molester.
Not all pedophiles are child molesters.
Not all child molesters are pedophiles.
This is important because those working the field of child safety think it’s important that pedophiles are able to acknowledge their attraction to children and get help, and that means not hiding, which is more likely to happen if we continue to suggest that pedophile means someone who has sexually abused a child.
 
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Thorolfr said:
Your figures go back to Masters & Johnson, and are totally flawed.
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I agree with you completely…this is why I prefer anecdotal evidence to surveys…
We still have a land line, and get political surveys frequently…I fib two or three times during each survey just to mess with them.
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Thorolfr said:
I dare say that most of those who bring up the “child of God” stuff definitely insist on defining those people down there as “non-Americans,” “Mexicans,” etc. who should not be allowed to enter the US.
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I can not account for the inconsistencies of others. And yet…

Those at the border are just as bound to respecting the laws of America as Americans are bound to welcome them into our country.
Thorolfr said:
No gay man defines himself only by his sexuality. It is only one way he defines himself depending on the context.
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I would suggest that “child of God” is the description of my inner most self. The highest description of who I am. While other descriptions may be applicable they are subject to bend to the orientation of my inner most self.

The other descriptions become less important as we reach the zenith of who we really are.

Picture a rose growing…
What does the rose think of itself when it is a seed, or when it is a stem, or just as it begins to bloom. Yet the gardener always recognizes its highest self (a rose) regardless of what that rose thinks of itself…
 
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catholicray said:
Picture a rose growing…
What does the rose think of itself when it is a seed, or when it is a stem, or just as it begins to bloom. Yet the gardener always recognizes its highest self (a rose) regardless of what that rose thinks of itself…
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Good analogy.
 
catholicray said:
The other descriptions become less important as we reach the zenith of who we really are.
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I don’t think anyone’s saying that sexual orientation is the most important facet of one’s being. Just that saying “I’m gay” is a valid, non-dehumanizing description of homosexual attraction.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
Just that saying “I’m gay” is a valid, non-dehumanizing description of homosexual attraction.
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I suppose. But I think a lot of the listeners to this might think its “too much information” and something which should be shared on a need-to-know basis.

If you tell me that, and I’m not a counselor in any sense of the word, and I’m certainly not a homosexual, there is no response.

I’m probably just inclined to keep quiet about it. But my feeling is that such a declaration is an invasion of my own space.
 
Augustinian said:
I’m probably just inclined to keep quiet about it. But my feeling is that such a declaration is an invasion of my own space.
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It really depends on what kind of a relationship you want. If you want to be good friends, it is important to know because it is an integral part of who the person is and what their life is about. If you want to keep people at arm’s length and not get to know them well, then your approach is OK. Sort of no different than any other personal information that helps you learn about other people.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
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Augustinian:
I’m probably just inclined to keep quiet about it. But my feeling is that such a declaration is an invasion of my own space.
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Do you never give off any indications that you’re straight?
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Right.

The old argument from the 1970s: “I don’t hate gays as long as they don’t ‘flaunt it.’”

But the rest of us “flaunt” their sexuality all the time in a way.; for example, if a man has a picture at work with his wife and kids, or if he mentions in the break room he’s going somewhere after work with “Linda.”
 
It’s like you’re demonizing the normal way of things. What is wrong with a man talking about his wife or vice versa?
 
jtwp5 said:
It’s like you’re demonizing the normal way of things. What is wrong with a man talking about his wife or vice versa?
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I wasn’t “demonizing” it. I was just saying people do it.

I was saying it was hypocritical in the 1970s to use that argument.
 
signit said:
Right.

The old argument from the 1970s: “I don’t hate gays as long as they don’t ‘flaunt it.’”

But the rest of us “flaunt” their sexuality all the time in a way.; for example, if a man has a picture at work with his wife and kids, or if he mentions in the break room he’s going somewhere after work with “Linda.”
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My issue would be with PDA’s but on saying that I don’t like opposite sex PDAs either.
 
Just like most straight men don’t go around telling strangers, “I’m straight,” I don’t know hardly any gay men who go around telling strangers, “I’m gay!” in everyday interractions. I certainly don’t do that. Probably the only time I’ve said that is when I was coming out to a close friend or family member when I was more closeted.

Nowadays, I don’t make any announcements, but I also don’t make any efforts to conceal my sexual orientation unless I think that letting it be known might be unsafe. So, when my partner and I go someplace together, I might introduce him to other people by saying, “This is my partner, John” (not his real name). Or when my partner brought me to the office Christmas party where he worked, he just said matter of factly, “Can I introduce you to my partner Mark?” (not my real name). Or, in the course of conversation, I might tell someone that my partner John and I are going to be going to such and such a place this weekend. I never even have to say the word “gay” and leave it to people to draw their own conclusions which isn’t difficult for them to do since my partner has a male name like John and not a female one like Linda.
 
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