Belief and Reality

[ahimsaman72]

puzzleannie:

Many non-Christian religions and philosophies profess belief in God, therefore I did not introduce a Buddhist-Christianity debate, although I feel compelled to wonder why you would not expect such a debate when you post on a Christian forum.

I just re-read this part and thought I would respond to it briefly. I don’t mind the Christian point of view on this subject. But, it’s really a philosophical idea and not a religious one. So, I wanted to keep it in the philosophical realm if possible. Since that is not possible with you, that’s fine. You’ve given me your Christian point of view and I accept it for what it is.

And, I still don’t understand why Catholics wonder why Buddhists, atheists and Muslims come here. Maybe it is because there’s a non-Catholic religion section that seems to be inviting non-Catholics on the forum. I enjoy coming here for the conversation about religious topics. I don’t come to fight or compete with another’s philosophy/religion.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Matt16_18:

There are many moral truths that are written in the Torah that are still binding on Christians. For example, obeying the Ten Commandments has not become optional for Christians…

I’m having a hard time with designating them as moral truths. I’ve not heard them spoken of in that way. I would say they are moral imperatives - behavior expectations. They are simply commandments expected to be followed. Christianity has changed the Ten Commandments (a Jew would attest to this).

From a Jew’s standpoint, Christians are polytheists worshipping three gods, thereby breaking the first commandment. And from the same point of view, Christians have changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, so there’s another breaking of the Ten Commandments. And from the same point of view, Catholics with statues and icons would be breaking the second commandment.

So, this isn’t going well to begin with. From the Jews point of view (which has not changed) Christians are the ones who have not carried on the Ten Commandments, but rather desecrated them. Christians have changed the moral laws. So, I suppose they can be changed. Because, Christians changed them already. There’s proof of that.

Do you agree that Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 are truths that cannot change?

See above answer.
Peace…

 

[Matt16_18]

ahimsaman72:

I’m having a hard time with designating them as moral truths.

Thou shalt not steal, lie, commit adultery, nor murder. How can you possibly have a hard time understanding that these commandments concern morality?

I’ve not heard them spoken of in that way. I would say they are moral imperatives - behavior expectations.

Certainly God expects his people to live morally. That is why God literally wrote the moral laws of the Ten Commandments in stone, so that their can be no doubt as to what God expects from the faithful.

As a Southern Baptist, are you taught that obeying the Ten Commandments becomes optional when one becomes a Christian? Does Jesus ever condone immorality? Don’t Southern Baptists believe that they must enter a relationship where Jesus is their Lord in order to be saved?

You are going astray in suggesting that there are great differences between the Jewish and Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. In fact, no such gulf exists. Orthodox Jews believe that there is only one God to be worshipped, and so do Catholics. Orthodox Jews believe that the Lord’s Day must be kept holy, and so do Catholics. Neither orthodox Jews nor Catholics believe that statues can be worshipped. Don’t Southern Baptists believe these things too?

Christians have changed the moral laws.

Protestants change the moral laws that they observe, Catholics do not. Moral relativism is a problem of Protestantism, not Catholicism.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

What is your response to the teaching below from a Zen Buddhist monk?

I think its a pile of trash.

 

[jimmy]

ahimsaman72:

I’m having a hard time with designating them as moral truths. I’ve not heard them spoken of in that way. I would say they are moral imperatives - behavior expectations. They are simply commandments expected to be followed. Christianity has changed the Ten Commandments (a Jew would attest to this).

From a Jew’s standpoint, Christians are polytheists worshipping three gods, thereby breaking the first commandment. And from the same point of view, Christians have changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, so there’s another breaking of the Ten Commandments. And from the same point of view, Catholics with statues and icons would be breaking the second commandment.

So, this isn’t going well to begin with. From the Jews point of view (which has not changed) Christians are the ones who have not carried on the Ten Commandments, but rather desecrated them. Christians have changed the moral laws. So, I suppose they can be changed. Because, Christians changed them already. There’s proof of that.

See above answer.
Peace…

No, Christianity has not. Pure Christianity is Catholisism. We observe the sabbath on Sunday, the day Christ rose. The Jews would not call us polytheists. Learn Christianity before you try to tear it down. They would not be breaking the second commandment with statues and icons. Look in the old testament where the arc of the covenant is described.

Why has this denigraded into an attack on Christianity?

 

[ahimsaman72]

Matt16_18:

Thou shalt not steal, lie, commit adultery, nor murder. How can you possibly have a hard time understanding that these commandments concern morality?

I didn’t say they aren’t concerned with morality. I stated I had a hard time calling them moral truths. They are moral* laws* or precepts - behavior expectations. I don’t understand them as moral truths.

Certainly God expects his people to live morally. That is why God literally wrote the moral laws of the Ten Commandments in stone, so that their can be no doubt as to what God expects from the faithful.

As a Southern Baptist, are you taught that obeying the Ten Commandments becomes optional when one becomes a Christian? Does Jesus ever condone immorality? Don’t Southern Baptists believe that they must enter a relationship where Jesus is their Lord in order to be saved?

The 10 Commandments are not optional in the SBC. Immorality is never okay. A relationship must be made between believer and God, yes.

You are going astray in suggesting that there are great differences between the Jewish and Catholic understanding of the Ten Commandments. In fact, no such gulf exists. Orthodox Jews believe that there is only one God to be worshipped, and so do Catholics. Orthodox Jews believe that the Lord’s Day must be kept holy, and so do Catholics. Neither orthodox Jews nor Catholics believe that statues can be worshipped. Don’t Southern Baptists believe these things too?

There are vast differences in the Jewish and Christian faith - vast differences. Go to www.jewfaq.org or www.jewsforjudaism.org
Christians do not worship on the original Sabbath. Orthodox Jews believe only a heretic follows the Christ - because they consider Jesus to be a false Christ. I’m not making this up or trying to incite a riot here. I’m stating facts. StillSmallVoice should be able to verify this. He refers to the first link quite often. It is an Orthodox Jewish website.

Protestants change the moral laws that they observe, Catholics do not. Moral relativism is a problem of Protestantism, not Catholicism.

Protestants have changed many moral laws as you say.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

jimmy:

No, Christianity has not. Pure Christianity is Catholisism. We observe the sabbath on Sunday, the day Christ rose. The Jews would not call us polytheists. Learn Christianity before you try to tear it down. They would not be breaking the second commandment with statues and icons. Look in the old testament where the arc of the covenant is described.

Why has this denigraded into an attack on Christianity?

You need to learn Judaism before you accuse me of tearing down Christianity. I have been a Southern Baptist all my life and continue to be so. I happen to have an interest in Buddhism. I suggest you look at www.jewfaq.org and/or www.jewsforjudaism.org before you cast stones.

I’m not attacking Christianity. I’m stating facts from an Orthodox Jew’s website and a Judaism website which shows the differences. Whether you like it or not Judaism and Christianity have immense differences even though Judaism is the root of Christian belief and thought.

Peace…