Believe everything or get out

[GrandeChartreus]

Good evening everyone,

I am sorry to disturb you on this wonderful night but I have a question with regards to arguments and divergent opinions inside the Church.

There are some things that I don’t really like in how the Church is heading right now. I have been raised in a christian household where it was important to say what you think. Arguments have to be rational, founded on logic, reason and (most important) God’s message of love and understanding.

I believe that I am a devout Christian. I pray daily, rosary and the liturgy of the hours, go to mass etc … I am a strong believer in almost everything the Church says.

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception. I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

I always try to write in a thoughtful manner to people … stating my argument agreeing and opposing some posts etc …

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

 

[Apollos]

I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

And how would that work, exactly? People who use contraception eventually don’t. And what happens when contraception fails?

like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

I’d agree the Church is to blame but … not for any of *those *reasons, yours or his.

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me. … Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Why not join a white-supremacist group? It’s not like they’ll threaten you for failing to agree with 100% of *their *beliefs. Plus you get to dress up.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church?

Of course. We invented the university.

 

[ConcernedApathy]

Nice, heartfelt answer. I’m sure that’s just what he was looking for, all snark no substance.

 

[twoangels]

Good evening everyone,

I am sorry to disturb you on this wonderful night but I have a question with regards to arguments and divergent opinions inside the Church.

There are some things that I don’t really like in how the Church is heading right now. I have been raised in a christian household where it was important to say what you think. Arguments have to be rational, founded on logic, reason and (most important) God’s message of love and understanding.

I believe that I am a devout Christian. I pray daily, rosary and the liturgy of the hours, go to mass etc … I am a strong believer in almost everything the Church says.

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception. I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

Contraceptives are already promoted. Most people ignore what the Church teaches. The people who actually listen to the Church’s teachings on sexual morality and wait for marriage and practice NFP don’t have abortions. How would the Church going along with the contraceptive culture have any positive effect on reducing the number of abortions?

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

The scandal is a crisis we were made aware of in 2002. The problem with people leaving the Church has been a problem for my entire life and I’m 29 years old.

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

If your faith is threatened by following through the logic of your patterns, than your faith in Christ’s Church is already weak. But that said, its been my experience that feeling threatened challenged to think your conclusions all the way through can actually help you gain more faith. My brother in law was pro contraceptive, pro gay marriage, pro abortion, pro premarital sex and promiscuity. Just before I met him, he had decided to go back to Mass after years of absense and found God touched him through it, but he couldn’t accept all the Church offered. Well, I was blunt to him. Its either real or its not. There is no inbetween. This shook his faith so bad that he got very angry at me. He felt he was just regaining his faith and he blamed me for shaking it. I decided at that time to stop arguing and to start praying. I ended up teaching him to pray the divine mercy chaplet.

Honestly, I never thought I’d come across the guy again, but soon he kept contacting me with questions and we’d argue and he says for months he hated me. I guess it was a friendship built on hate and he had to deal with the fact that I had started going to daily Mass to pray for him, was praying litanies of saints and asking all my friends to pray for him. I just felt in my own prayerlife that God was beckoning very loudly to pray for the guy.

So obviously since he’s now my brother in law, I basically got to watch this guy make a complete 180 in his life and eventually marry my sister. So the point is just because you feel your faith is shaking doesn’t mean you’re losing it. It may be the potential to start on a path where you gain a much stronger faith.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

You should think your logic all the way through, pray and allow God to guide and transform your heart. If you’re going to be consistant, you’ll need to choose one path or another. The Church either has authority or it doesn’t. There isn’t a logical middle ground.

 

[Willy_Jose]

Hi GrandeChartreus,

First of all, the Catholic Church teaches the primacy of conscience (CCC 1792) “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”. So, a Catholic in good standing might find himself at odds with certain teachings of the Church (for whatever reason), yet the Church teaches us to follow our conscience under pain of sin. *“A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself” *(CCC 1790). Under such, the Church does not absolutely forbid dissent. In other words, one can err in good faith.

However, the Church also teaches that *“Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened.” *(CCC 1783). Thus, we are taught towards educating our conscience as “a lifelong task” (CCC 1784), “assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church” (CCC 1785). Again, one can err in good faith, but it does not necessarily mean it is the right thing to do.

On the matter of contraceptives, it is indeed a hard teaching to follow even for many devout, practising Catholics. It should be interesting to note that all Christian churches were united in their opposition to contraception until as recently as the early decades of the 20th century. It was not until 1930 that the Anglican Church went on record as saying that contraception was permissible, for grave reasons, within marriage. It was also at this time that Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Casti Connubii, in which he reiterated what has been the constant teaching of the Catholic Church: Contraception is intrinsically wrong. If one had to sincerely delve into the matter, then it is paramount to study the pertinent papal encyclicals such as Humanae Vitae, Evangelium Vitae, and Pope JP2’s lecture series Theology of the Body. As a minimum, that should suffice, and should be in line with the continuous education of conscience as mentioned in the Catechism. Still, we should be familiar with the secular arguments, and we should not be afraid to be aware of it for our education – for our faith is compatible with reason, as Pope JP2 so repeatedly says.

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Thank God you are not easily swayed. There is a way for being opinionated while being loving, respectful, and open to correction. I feel you are in the right path. God bless you and keep studying.

At this point I am reminded of John 6, most likely you are familiar with those verses.

60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”… As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, *“Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”
*

 

[gardenswithkids]

Good evening everyone,

I am sorry to disturb you on this wonderful night but I have a question with regards to arguments and divergent opinions inside the Church.

There are some things that I don’t really like in how the Church is heading right now. I have been raised in a christian household where it was important to say what you think. Arguments have to be rational, founded on logic, reason and (most important) God’s message of love and understanding.

I believe that I am a devout Christian. I pray daily, rosary and the liturgy of the hours, go to mass etc … I am a strong believer in almost everything the Church says.

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception. I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

I always try to write in a thoughtful manner to people … stating my argument agreeing and opposing some posts etc …

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

Of course people with strong opinions are allowed inside the Church! The martrys were people of such strong opinion that they are willing to die for what they believed! There’s certainly nothing wrong with having a strong opinion.

I’m strongly opinionated on the very subject you are strongly opinionated on. I am of the strong opinion that the Church’s teachings on human sexuality are beautifully consistent and true. I did not always think that. One of the great things about opinions is that we can change them. I encourage you to set aside your opinion and struggle to understand and (more importantly) follow the Church teachings on sexuality. I can tell you that I did not really understand the Church teachings on sexuality until I followed them.

BTW, when you argue on blogs or forums, it may well be that you are better able to phrase your opinions in a more logical and rational manner than other people. You may be the person who writes with the most charity and the most understanding. You may be the smartest person, most likable person and best dressed person sitting at a computer. A person’s opinion isn’t right or wrong based on the way they argue and present their opinion against other people. Your argument isn’t with the people on the bishop’s forum, or even with the bishop or the popeor the Catholic Church. Take your opinions and discuss them in prayer with the Lord and Giver of Life.

 

[bkayw]

As I’ve said here before:

Artificial contraception is a physical extension of a mental condition.

When men and women are mentally against children (or another child) they choose artifical contraception to keep their relationship childless.

When artificial contraception fails - these couples will advance toward the next step. 50% of these pregnancies end by the women killing her child.

 

[Wowbagger]

I think everyone has something in the Church that they just don’t “get.” At all. You might be a guy who believes the whole thing, Christ, the Resurrection, the Magisterium, the saints, the Mass… and then you get down to the nitty-gritty and there is this one niggling issue where you simply cannot convince yourself that the Church is right, no matter how honestly and openly you approach the arguments.

For you, that killer issue is contraception. For many, many young Catholics right now, it’s the teaching on homosexuality. For me, personally, it’s free will. The idea that we human beings are in any sense morally autonomous, so much so that we are morally accountable for our own actions… most people think that’s a very easy, very obvious teaching to accept, but it strikes me as crazy and weird and absurd. I try to understand the Church’s teaching, I really do… but so far it hasn’t clicked for me.

This is bound to happen to us flawed old human beings. Our intellects are imperfect, our understanding is cloudy, and (never discount this) our passions and our pride have a lot of influence over our powers of natural reason. Against those odds, the fact that we ever get anything right at all is pretty amazing (and a sign of the Holy Spirit’s grace).

The important thing is that, even when we disagree with a Church teaching, we must submit to it. We have to follow it, because we know that the Church is infallible on issues of faith and morals. To defy the Church on this would be to defy Christ Himself – a profound act of infernal pride. Once you are in obedience to the teaching, there is no harm in asking questions, and – yes! – fighting vigorous arguments, with your fellow Catholics, whether it’s in school, at Church, in your family, or in friendly online communities. Generally speaking, it would be prudent and charitable for you to avoid dragging those discussions and arguments out into more public spaces, where not everyone is friendly toward the Church and scandal could result – such as by airing your views in a street protest against the Church, or going over to RichardDawkins.com and asking all his community members to come over to help you argue against Church teaching on contraception. But, within reasonable bounds, argument and strong opinions are encouraged and, frankly, essential to the vitality of our faith!

So go out there and fight for your point of view! Your conscience demands it, as does the Church! Push as hard as you can! Get the answers you need! Grow in your faith! Make them uncomfortable with their inadequate answers; force them to grow in their faith! This is a good thing!

And forgive those of your interlocutors who tell you to leave the Church over this. Everyone gets a little agitated about topics like this, and sometimes we all forget to be charitable, and we say stupid things like that. As long as you are submitting to the Church teaching on contraception in your own life (a very big if, for a lot of people!), and your conscience is open to eventual correction, you are blameless for making the arguments and seeking the answers.

This forum is a good place to do that.

 

[Adeodatus]

1 Corinthians 6:19-20:

[19] Or know you not, that your members are the temple of the Holy Ghost, who is in you, whom you have from God; and you are not your own? [20] For you are bought with a great price. Glorify and bear God in your body.

That is what I believe.

Your life is not your own. Is Christ Jesus your King? Then bow your head and submit. That obedience, even in a state of incomprehension, is a great act of friendship to God.

 

[Windfish]

On the abortion/contraceptive issue… it seems that the more contraceptives are promoted, the higher the abortion rates go. And the logic on this is pretty simple. Contraceptives change the attitude about what sex is and what it is not, making it into means unto itself. This leads to promiscuity and a lot of “unwanted” pregnancies. It would be interesting to see hard data on this.

 

[blackrobe]

Jesus conferred his authority on the Apostles. When the Church speaks, Jesus speaks. Therefore, when you disagree with the teaching of the Church, you disagree with Jesus. What that means to you is a matter of conscience. I hope you do not find yourself at the particular judgment explaining to Jesus why your views on contraception are superior to his.

AMDG
jsa

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Good evening everyone,

I am sorry to disturb you on this wonderful night but I have a question with regards to arguments and divergent opinions inside the Church.

There are some things that I don’t really like in how the Church is heading right now. I have been raised in a christian household where it was important to say what you think. Arguments have to be rational, founded on logic, reason and (most important) God’s message of love and understanding.

I believe that I am a devout Christian. I pray daily, rosary and the liturgy of the hours, go to mass etc … I am a strong believer in almost everything the Church says.

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception. I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

I always try to write in a thoughtful manner to people … stating my argument agreeing and opposing some posts etc …

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

I really wish I could give you a big hug right now. Believe when I say that I’ve been right where you are, and occasionally feel as you do.

To open myself up for ridicule as well, I also have issues with what the church teaches on contraception. I mean, I know all that they say and I see where they are coming from, but I don’t feel as though I’ve fully accepted it. I just can’t see the full logic of the whole scenario despite the multitudes of books and papers I’ve read on the subject.

However, I do know that the church believes it, and I believe the church was given the authority by God to make those claims. This means that I defend and obey - even if in my heart I don’t feel it is right. I pray for my heart’s conversion and I believe that God will win me over on this issue eventually. Until then, I publically defend NFP, reccomend it to my friends when they ask, and uphold church teachings when asked. Heck, most of the people who know me IRL think I am as anti-birth control as they come.,…in my heart though, I am not. This is the issue that I work out my salvation with fear and trembling though, and I pray that God will understand that I will follow, even if I don’t agree and I can see that he has granted me a great many blessings and a helping hand on my path.

As for people who are emotionally telling you to leave the church, that is their own insecurities speaking. They are uncertain of themselves and can’t handle someone who disagrees with them. This is their problem – not yours. Don’t leave the church, and don’t leave God. He never demanded that we understand and believe everything, he just asks that we trust and follow. I feel I don’t need to understand, and for me this is a sacrifice. I am a reasonably intelligent person that wants to understand and know everything, and for whatever reason, God has decided to cut me out ont he birth control issue. It has been a huge step for me to admit that I may never understand him on this, and move forward in faith.

The church is hardly “believe everything or get out.” You do have to follow certain rules, but God created us with a free will and a mind of our own. Everyone is unique and what may seem so simple to some are genuine struggles for others. The important thing is that we admit that we don’t agree or don’t understand as the case may be, and follow in faith.

 

[1ke]

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception.

Well, stop right here.

Your problem centers around a complete misunderstanding of who and what the Church is.

The Church does not have a “policy” on contraception. The Church teaches a** moral truth**-- a reality. God is the author of the moral law. The Church can only faithfully hand on the Truth communicated by God in the person of Christ to the Apostles and their successor Bishops.

The Church cannot change its teaching on contraception because this teaching is a reality– it is part God’s design and plan for human sexuality.

So, you need to reform your understanding of the Church. Why is it that you are not at liberty to disagree with Church teaching? Because the Church can always and everywhere only teach God’s truth. To reject Church teaching is to reject Christ himself.

It is not wrong to question, to not understand, to be confused by the mixed message of society. It is, indeed, wrong to “argue” publicly with one’s bishop. If you don’t understand-- read.

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

The faults of individual priests are terrible, but I question why you want to bring them up when they have nothing to do with what the Bishop is teaching on his blog. You seem to think he must mention them in every post. That’s sort of a whacky idea.

I always try to write in a thoughtful manner to people … stating my argument agreeing and opposing some posts etc …

The bishop’s blog isn’t an appropriate place to be “arguing” with anyone. Debate is for a format such as this. It is generous that the bishop allows comments on his blog, but it is not for an extende debate. Also, if you are arguing against Church teaching, your arguments are unfounded. Again, the Church’s moral law comes from God. It’s like posting an argument against gravity.

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

They are incorrect. You are Catholic by virtue of your baptism. It is your responsibility to continue to study until your conscience is properly formed and you embrace Church teaching fully.

 

[Bookcat]

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

Leave???

Even if the a person rejected more than half the teachings of the Church and was living with his girlfriend…or was member of the Mob…I would not say…“leave the Church”…I would say to the person just mentioned: yes do not go to Communion etc…but keep coming to Mass…and seeking God…ask his help! seek help from others…good Priests etc…but by all means do not leave…for this is the way of life…even if at the moment one is unable to live this way…do not go away…but instead seek the face of Christ …seek him still…

---

Faith and Reason go together…so it is important to “think”…and certainly our faith is reasonable…it is of the Logos…

but we must as Paul puts it…be not conformed to the world but rather be transformed by the renewal of our minds…(Romans)

This happens via the Holy Spirit and seeking to follow Christ and seek to understand or at least conform to what he teaches us through his Church (he who hears you hears me…as he said)…

Following Christ …following all the teachings of the Church (contraception has been understood as evil since the very beginning…) can involve some “dying to oneself” …but then we have “true life”. For it is following Him who is the life!

So I would encourage you to accept the teachings of Christs Church and then work on understanding them (by the way it was the teaching on Contraception that played a role in Dr. Scott Hahn and his wife coming into full communion with the Church)…which is “faith seeking understanding”…

After Christ’s very difficult teaching on the Eucharist (John 6)…some of his disciples ceased following him…he turned to the Apostles and asked…are you too going to leave?

Peter replied…no Lord…where would we go? YOU have the words of eternal life.

It is Jesus we follow…it is he we have life in. The Church is not so much about “no’s” …these “no’s” do exist for our own good…but the are there following the great Yes! The Yes of following Christ!

(even marriage …that big yes…involves alot of no’s …but it is not the no’s that one is choosing per se…it is the Bride… but being faithful to the Bride…to the big yes…will involve many no’s…)

I would invite you to read this from Pope Benedict XVI (and read his other homilies etc…)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

I invite you to print it and read it slowly…

PS the Carthusians…from whom you get your name from…have been known for their very great following of Christ and the teachings of the Church…so much so that they are said to have “never been reformed…never needing it”…May St. Bruno help you by his prayers to know the full joy of following Christ in his Church …I will ask his prayers for you…and pray as well.

 

[raaucoin]

when I was outside of the church, I longed to return. In my prayers I told the Lord, " I want to return and be active in the Church but THEY won’t let me." In the quiet of my heart I heard a gentle voice respond “THEY aren’t stopping you.”

I spent months reflecting on various teachings that I had strong disagreements with. I returned to daily Mass sort of “incognito”. Stayed to myself,wasn’t involved with parish life. And one morning I heard a reading about St. Paul disagreeing with Peter and some others regarding the treatment of gentiles. Our priest explained that in spite of his disagreement, Paul recognized the authority of Peter given by Jesus and that Peter and the Church were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And so Paul disagreed but he submitted to Peter and the apostles. ( and obviously the gentiles were eventually embraced)
{And by the way I had been avoiding St. Paul like the plague- mostly I knew he was the writer most people used to beat up on moral degenerates like me!}

AHA! I thought, I could be like Paul. I could disagree, but submit to the Church in matters of faith and morals. The funny thing is that when I agreed to do that, I began to receive some understanding from the Holy Spirit. Soon I was not only submitting, but embracing and falling in love with the very teachings I disagreed with.

Our Church has always had saints who knew they had to challenge the church. But the true Saints always were able to remain faithful and OBEDIENT to get the change done.

And by the way,OP.Even if you don’t believe everything, Don’t get out! God Bless.

 

[Leela]

That is what I believe.

Your life is not your own. Is Christ Jesus your King? Then bow your head and submit. That obedience, even in a state of incomprehension, is a great act of friendship to God.

I don’t think the question here is whether or not Jesus is King. The question is whether the Vatican is king. It is a question about whether or not the Church is right about what Jesus wants with respect to contraception. The OP has doubts about whether the Chruch knows the will of God.

 

[Bookcat]

I don’t think the question here is whether or not Jesus is King. The question is whether the Vatican is king. It is a question about whether or not the Church is right about what Jesus wants with respect to contraception. The OP has doubts about whether the Chruch knows the will of God.

The Church of course teaches in the name and authority of Christ…not some human authority…

As for contraception…

this teaching has been so from the beginning…(not that a new teaching would be less true…but it has been the case from the beginning)

 

[slywakka250]

Wowbagger:

or me, personally, it’s free will. The idea that we human beings are in any sense morally autonomous, so much so that we are morally accountable for our own actions… most people think that’s a very easy, very obvious teaching to accept, but it strikes me as crazy and weird and absurd. I try to understand the Church’s teaching, I really do… but so far it hasn’t clicked for me.

Me too! I’m glad I’m not the only one here on this forum struggling with this.

Bookcat:

Leave???

Even if the a person rejected more than half the teachings of the Church and was living with his girlfriend…or was member of the Mob…I would not say…“leave the Church”…I would say to the person just mentioned: yes do not go to Communion etc…but keep coming to Mass…and seeking God…ask his help! seek help from others…good Priests etc…but by all means do not leave…for this is the way of life…even if at the moment one is unable to live this way…do not go away…but instead seek the face of Christ …seek him still…

great post! It is soooo frustrating to be a lifelong Catholic who has a hard time accepting many things that the Church teaches. I wish it would just all make sense! Not going to Communion each Sunday makes me sad. I’m happy thats its ok to just keep trying and seek God as much as I’m able. You really don’t have to “believe everything or get out,” (albeit you might end up in hell, but I won’t worry about that now). The idea is to develop spiritually, and if you seek the truth in the Catholic Church, I think you may eventually find it. at least I hope I will someday…

 

[Leela]

The Church of course teaches in the name and authority of Christ…not some human authority…

It claims to, anyway. If a Catholic thinks that the Church could be wrong about contraception, then that Catholic does not really believe that the Church teaches with authority.

 

[edwest2]

Good evening everyone,

I am sorry to disturb you on this wonderful night but I have a question with regards to arguments and divergent opinions inside the Church.

There are some things that I don’t really like in how the Church is heading right now. I have been raised in a christian household where it was important to say what you think. Arguments have to be rational, founded on logic, reason and (most important) God’s message of love and understanding.

I believe that I am a devout Christian. I pray daily, rosary and the liturgy of the hours, go to mass etc … I am a strong believer in almost everything the Church says.

Nevertheless, I have some issues with the Church policy on contraception. I am not for abortion but believe that this will not be reduced until contraception is promoted.

I sometimes get into discussion with other catholics and often write on my archbishop blog. I take the liberty to argue against some of his post that I find inaccurate or that voluntary forget to mention certain things (like for example he often forget to mention or talk about the the Sex scandals that is hurting our Chuch in Canada and he often omits this as a cause to why our Church is emptying itself in Canada … he often accuse the secularist as being the cause but forget that our Church has it’s part of the blame … ).

I always try to write in a thoughtful manner to people … stating my argument agreeing and opposing some posts etc …

I often get people to emotionally respond that I should quit the Church … I don’t like that and I feel that my faith threatened every time someone say that to me.

Many people in our Church (past and present) agreed / opposed and proposed certain aspects about the Church. I feel this is normal (and important) in a living and breathing institution.

As such is it normal for someone to be strong opinionated inside the Church ? Should I leave the Church because I believe we are not heading the right way on certain issues ?

Thank you for your help.

First of all, if you don’t know it already, you should understand what the Church teaches. Next, you should find a way to engage with the Church regarding what you think is wrong.

You should discard opinions and learn the truth. There is not one true answer over here and another true answer over there.

Regarding contraception, it can fail. The condom and birth control pill do not come with a 100% guarantee. Contraception will not reduce abortion since the goal of contraception is to prevent normal bodily function: reproduction. Since the goal is to thwart the true purpose of sexual intercourse, and pregnancy occurs. Then what? They’ll just keep the baby even though the plan was to not have one?

God bless,
Ed