Believe in God; - joyful or burdensome?

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Oh Dis, you obviously build up barriers around you, - barriers you think you can not overcome.
Many (Christians) do (wrongly) so, so you are in best company But ain’t this a sad way to live?! Where then is your trust in God?

You claim it don’t make any sense to say: “Christianity and faith in God is joyful, for we know what’s expecting us - 1Cor 2:9”.
Or to say: “To be a Christian, is not even near sadness”.

Of course mother Teresa had, as we all have, a lot of sorrows. More of them then most of us too.

Today is memorial day of my son’s dying (it took him 3 ½ days then). So, we too have sorrows of course. All have. But – we have the joy of Jesus word, that who believes in Him, will live – even after he died - Joh 11,25.

Joy in Christianity, does not mean to be happy all the time. Only idiots laugh all the time and find everything funny and jocular.

Joy in Christianity by contrast means, that in whatever deep sorrow we are, we do, the second we pray, have God Himself to comfort us. Let’s lay all our of course existing sorrows into His hands, for we will be comforted: Luke 6:21
…blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh.

Joy in Christianity is; that God knows what’s bearing us down, before we tell Him: Mt 6,8
…for our Father in heaven knows what we need before we ask Him!

Now; is this news Jesus gave us joyful, or not?!
**

 

[moen]

**Oh Dis, you obviously build up barriers around you, - barriers you think you can not overcome.
Many (Christians) do (wrongly) so, so you are in best company But ain’t this a sad way to live?! Where then is your trust in God?

You claim it don’t make any sense to say: “Christianity and faith in God is joyful, for we know what’s expecting us - 1Cor 2:9”.
Or to say: “To be a Christian, is not even near sadness”.

Of course mother Teresa had, as we all have, a lot of sorrows. More of them then most of us too.

Today is memorial day of my son’s dying (it took him 3 ½ days then). So, we too have sorrows of course. All have. But – we have the joy of Jesus word, that who believes in Him, will live – even after he died - Joh 11,25.

Joy in Christianity, does not mean to be happy all the time. Only idiots laugh all the time and find everything funny and jocular.

Joy in Christianity by contrast means, that in whatever deep sorrow we are, we do, the second we pray, have God Himself to comfort us. Let’s lay all our of course existing sorrows into His hands, for we will be comforted: Luke 6:21
…blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh.

Joy in Christianity is; that God knows what’s bearing us down, before we tell Him: Mt 6,8
…for our Father in heaven knows what we need before we ask Him!

Now; is this news Jesus gave us joyful, or not?!
**

Bruno,
I hear you loud and clear on the US people issue. Have you been to Calif.? It’s different everywhere, but for the most part people in the East (New England especially) are notorious for their aloofness, and it can drive one crazy! Being of German ancestry, it’s been my hope to someday go to there. I’ve been to Spain and England and LOVED it! It depends on where you go in this country, but remember, there’s generally more crime/violence in this country…and understandably more fear when in public, for instance, talking to strangers…especially in big cities. It must be hard to foreigners visiting, thinking all Americans are rude/aloof/mean!

I took German for a while, but have forgotten most of it. I think your English is just fine!

When I referenced the “burden” aspect, I was thinking/referring mostly to Catholics. BUt, again, maybe it’s just this part of the US…where it’s mostly “dart in and dart out” Catholics. IE little, if any, warmth, fellowship.etc.

Make sense?

 

[moen]

BRUNO…WHOOPS I meant to quote your #137 regarding the differences between the friendliness of Germans vs Americans…quoted the wrong thing previously.

I hope you’re on a path to joy and peace and understanding. Having a special needs child, it has been a path of continual stripping of thinking “I am in control”—even of my spiritual life. All my non-Catholic, zealous Christianity, Bible Studies, being a leader in the church, etc…have been all swept away…and all the better , as I look back on it now. God is teaching me that the most ordinary, humdrum caretaking is sacramental and pleasing to Him…not just the serious prayer/Bible Study…and all this came about in my study of the Catholic Church/Saints of old. It’s amazing what we (Lutherans/Pentecostals) were NOT told about Christ’s church prior to the Reformation!!! God kept His people.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Hi moen ol’ man
I didn’t quite get this or that phrase of your post. But as a whole, I swallowed it

Yeah – In the US I found, that people see in strangers a potential enemy. Over here, meeting a stranger, I’d hopefully see a potential new friend of mine.

In this Christian forum I was surprised, that so few know each other. You seemed to be surprised, that:
“It sounds like the group on this thread knows each other pretty well, looking at the last post…knowing about Bruno’s computer and all”]
In a German Christian forum, this would be normal. Here, I contacted people by PM MAIL, but found out, that MANY don’t wish mail contacts or even any contacts.

I even had out of this forum mails with the content:
[You presume that it is OK to “impose” yourself. That is considered “pushy” in USA. But you impose yourself into our “free” space that we reserve for people we want to invite into it. That’s why I ignored so many of your e-mails]. I must admit; that one shocked me, and I deleted a row of US-mail-addresses!
I also had mails like:
[Your English is not to be understood – so why don’t you stick to German? I understand some German]. In other words „shut up and leave me alone“.

Now I much wonder how people think to make new friends, if they don’t leave their little circles.

We Christians ought to be inspiring example in loving others. Is this above love? Is being friendly to strangers as if you’d know them for ages „imposing“?

That’s why I bothered Shakespeare and quoted his word of Hamlet, slightly altered:
“Something is rotten in the State of USA, as far as togetherness is concerned”.

We really ought to be glad to know as many as possible of those who live in Jesus Christ, for this togetherness too is one of the very many joys in believe in God. Otherwise we’ll meet in heaven those we rejected, and will be embarrassed and much ashamed we rejected them on earth.
Now - how to explan this to Jesus Christ?!

**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Hi moen ol’ man
I didn’t quite get this or that phrase of your post. But as a whole, I swallowed it

Yeah – In the US I found, that people see in strangers a potential enemy. Over here, meeting a stranger, I’d hopefully see a potential new friend of mine.

In this Christian forum I was surprised, that so few know each other. You seemed to be surprised, that:
“It sounds like the group on this thread knows each other pretty well, looking at the last post…knowing about Bruno’s computer and all”]
In a German Christian forum, this would be normal. Here, I contacted people by PM MAIL, but found out, that MANY don’t wish mail contacts or even any contacts.

I even had out of this forum mails with the content:
[You presume that it is OK to “impose” yourself. That is considered “pushy” in USA. But you impose yourself into our “free” space that we reserve for people we want to invite into it. That’s why I ignored so many of your e-mails]. I must admit; that one shocked me, and I deleted a row of US-mail-addresses!
I also had mails like:
[Your English is not to be understood – so why don’t you stick to German? I understand some German]. In other words „shut up and leave me alone“.

Now I much wonder how people think to make new friends, if they don’t leave their little circles.

We Christians ought to be inspiring example in loving others. Is this above love? Is being friendly to strangers as if you’d know them for ages „imposing“?

That’s why I bothered Shakespeare and quoted his word of Hamlet, slightly altered:
“Something is rotten in the State of USA, as far as togetherness is concerned”.

We really ought to be glad to know as many as possible of those who live in Jesus Christ, for this togetherness too is one of the very many joys in believe in God. Otherwise we’ll meet in heaven those we rejected, and will be embarrassed and much ashamed we rejected them on earth.
Now - how to explan this to Jesus Christ?!

**

**Hi Bruno,

I love the Pollyanna (May not translate) view you paint of Germany and Germans.I lived there 3 years and I am from a German family as you know. You and I both know what Germans think of someone that impose themselves uninvited into your concersation or circle of friends in a social event. It isn’t friendly and joyful! Plus, if a German attempted to barge his or her way into your home you would call the police! You wouldn’t greet him with open arms. We “invite” people into our circle that we want to associate with. You should never impose yourself into others lives or assume that you are welcome until you are inivited should you?
You asked me 4 times for my e-mail address. I ignored your requests it because I don’t do e-mails.

I am much to busy for idle moments. Tony sent you my e-mail address and then I began getting Bruno updates like I wanted or needed them to make my life full. That is why I sent you the e-mail explaining you imposing yourself into other peoples space wasn’t nice. I enjoy your sense of humor, I even like you. We think a lot alike.

We both believe in God and he makes us joyful! (The OP Rules!)**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Hi moen ol’ man
I didn’t quite get this or that phrase of your post. But as a whole, I swallowed it

Yeah – In the US I found, that people see in strangers a potential enemy. Over here, meeting a stranger, I’d hopefully see a potential new friend of mine.

In this Christian forum I was surprised, that so few know each other. You seemed to be surprised, that:
“It sounds like the group on this thread knows each other pretty well, looking at the last post…knowing about Bruno’s computer and all”]
In a German Christian forum, this would be normal. Here, I contacted people by PM MAIL, but found out, that MANY don’t wish mail contacts or even any contacts.

I even had out of this forum mails with the content:
[You presume that it is OK to “impose” yourself. That is considered “pushy” in USA. But you impose yourself into our “free” space that we reserve for people we want to invite into it. That’s why I ignored so many of your e-mails]. I must admit; that one shocked me, and I deleted a row of US-mail-addresses!
I also had mails like:
[Your English is not to be understood – so why don’t you stick to German? I understand some German]. In other words „shut up and leave me alone“.

Now I much wonder how people think to make new friends, if they don’t leave their little circles.

We Christians ought to be inspiring example in loving others. Is this above love? Is being friendly to strangers as if you’d know them for ages „imposing“?

That’s why I bothered Shakespeare and quoted his word of Hamlet, slightly altered:
“Something is rotten in the State of USA, as far as togetherness is concerned”.

We really ought to be glad to know as many as possible of those who live in Jesus Christ, for this togetherness too is one of the very many joys in believe in God. Otherwise we’ll meet in heaven those we rejected, and will be embarrassed and much ashamed we rejected them on earth.
Now - how to explan this to Jesus Christ?!

**

**Hi Bruno,

I love the Pollyanna (May not translate) view you paint of Germany and Germans.I lived there 3 years and I am from a German family as you know. You and I both know what Germans think of someone that impose themselves uninvited into your conversation or circle of friends in a social event. It isn’t friendly and joyful! Plus, if a German attempted to barge his or her way into your home you would call the police! You wouldn’t greet him with open arms. We “invite” people into our circle that we want to associate with. You should never impose yourself into others lives or assume that you are welcome until you are inivited should you?
You asked me 4 times for my e-mail address. I ignored your requests it because I just don’t do e-mails.

I am much to busy for idle moments. Tony sent you my e-mail address and then I began getting Bruno updates like I wanted or needed them to make my life full. That is why I sent you the e-mail explaining to you how you were imposing yourself into other peoples space. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings just get the e-mailing to stop! It worked! I enjoy your posts and your sense of humor, I even like you. We think a lot alike. If you would accept people where they are and stop attempting to make them do what Bruno wants, things would be good! You my friend are pushy! I don’t allow myself to be pushed! Two hard German heads!

We both believe in God and he makes us joyful! (The OP Rules!)**

 

[moen]

**Hi Bruno,

I love the Pollyanna (May not translate) view you paint of Germany and Germans.I lived there 3 years and I am from a German family as you know. You and I both know what Germans think of someone that impose themselves uninvited into your conversation or circle of friends in a social event. It isn’t friendly and joyful! Plus, if a German attempted to barge his or her way into your home you would call the police! You wouldn’t greet him with open arms. We “invite” people into our circle that we want to associate with. You should never impose yourself into others lives or assume that you are welcome until you are inivited should you?
You asked me 4 times for my e-mail address. I ignored your requests it because I just don’t do e-mails.

I am much to busy for idle moments. Tony sent you my e-mail address and then I began getting Bruno updates like I wanted or needed them to make my life full. That is why I sent you the e-mail explaining to you how you were imposing yourself into other peoples space. I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings just get the e-mailing to stop! It worked! I enjoy your posts and your sense of humor, I even like you. We think a lot alike. If you would accept people where they are and stop attempting to make them do what Bruno wants, things would be good! You my friend are pushy! I don’t allow myself to be pushed! Two hard German heads!

We both believe in God and he makes us joyful! (The OP Rules!)**

I can see both your sides of the equation, and I’m laughing out loud , enjoying this dialogue…I think it comes down to if you’re married/single/got kids/lots of kids/lots of responsibilities/jobs and people and/or animals around you…friends, etc. around you then become sacred because there’s only so much of you to go around…coming down to “how sapped of energy are you” and your email becomes a drain if it’s too much…make sense?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I can see both your sides of the equation, and I’m laughing out loud , enjoying this dialogue…I think it comes down to if you’re married/single/got kids/lots of kids/lots of responsibilities/jobs and people and/or animals around you…friends, etc. around you then become sacred because there’s only so much of you to go around…coming down to “how sapped of energy are you” and your email becomes a drain if it’s too much…make sense?

Hi moen,

**I actually laughed as I wrote my other post and am smiling as I expand on this one. But don’t tell Bruno! He takes things too seriously! It is an example of the German sense of “humor” he loves to claim, but appears to lack and displays when told to “back off” **

**Bruno, must be the center of his universe there in Germany just as I am the center of my universe here! People say do this, do that, they tell me this, They tell me that. Like God put me here to to their bidding rather then His! **

I have dial up. when Bruno sends e-mail he often enclose pictures. they can take up to 5 minutes to download and I hope he doesn’t read this: They aren’t very interesting to me, all about him and his world!

I explained my Point of view, nicely but directly. He doesn’t take hints very well. So I did it more forceful! and he is still sulking. Two weeks later, and he is still talking about it in another post:

**Bruno: “I even had out of this forum mails with the content: [You presume that it is OK to “impose” yourself. That is considered “pushy” in USA. But you impose yourself into our “free” space that we reserve for people we want to invite into it. That’s why I ignored so many of your e-mails]. I must admit; that one shocked me, and I deleted a row of US-mail-addresses!” **

---

I deleated the post after I sent it, but it seems he kept it and will sulk for months it seems! If he wasn’t 6 years older than me, I would be tempted to put him across my knees and spank his German Butt! However, he might like that!
Poor Bruno! Be joyful my friend, Belief in God isn’t burdensome! (The OP rules!)

 

[moen]

Hi moen,

**I actually laughed as I wrote my other post and am smiling as I expand on this one. But don’t tell Bruno! He takes things too seriously! It is an example of the German sense of “humor” he loves to claim, but appears to lack and displays when told to “back off” **

**Bruno, must be the center of his universe there in Germany just as I am the center of my universe here! People say do this, do that, they tell me this, They tell me that. Like God put me here to to their bidding rather then His! **

I have dial up. when Bruno sends e-mail he often enclose pictures. they can take up to 5 minutes to download and I hope he doesn’t read this: They aren’t very interesting to me, all about him and his world!

I explained my Point of view, nicely but directly. He doesn’t take hints very well. So I did it more forceful! and he is still sulking. Two weeks later, and he is still talking about it in another post:

**Bruno: “I even had out of this forum mails with the content: [You presume that it is OK to “impose” yourself. That is considered “pushy” in USA. But you impose yourself into our “free” space that we reserve for people we want to invite into it. That’s why I ignored so many of your e-mails]. I must admit; that one shocked me, and I deleted a row of US-mail-addresses!” **

---

I deleated the post after I sent it, but it seems he kept it and will sulk for months it seems! If he wasn’t 6 years older than me, I would be tempted to put him across my knees and spank his German Butt! However, he might like that!
Poor Bruno! Be joyful my friend, Belief in God isn’t burdensome! (The OP rules!)

All I can say is that I have rec’d more joy and laughter with realcatholicCK than all the other posts i’ve seen since October! You’re hilarious, and I can relate since I grew up with a German father. No, as Bruno said, Moen ole man…I’m a woman (Moen being my middle name) and I have laughed more than I have in months! THANK YOU both Bruno and CK for your honesty and Humor.
I have 2 special needs kids and I’ve gotten more out of you two than all the other posts on serious subjects since Oct 08!!! Keep up the lighthearted poking! I need it!

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Ay-ay - Lady then. Could’t tell by the nick “moen”. One of the disadvantages of nicknames instead of real names
Well – I’m an old man and I’m glad about it, so I haven’t got to bear Real much longer
German? Him? Ha! I wonder which part of him.

Then I should think even Obama is of German origin. These days on TV a German claimed to be a grandnephew of him.
Well, I’m closely related to the Pope then.

Let’s get back to normal. Regain spirit and object of CAF and this thread. What is that spirit?
It’s merely to show doubters; people who look sceptically towards faith in God, that believe is something great. Edifying and joyful.

In fact to prove to anyone, that believe in God is joyful.
We can not prove God to anyone. Believe remains matter of every individual. Believe or not to believe; this question changes the whole life of every human being completely. Everyone can prove that for himself – when he converts from unbelief to belief.

Not even Jesus, who is God Himself, wanted to make people believe, but God decided to let it be up to them. Otherwise we’d not have a free will any more.

But those living in absolute faith and believe in God, can show all, that we are not a sourpuss carrying hard a burden some people think Christianity means. No! Let’s show as many as possible, that Christianity is as joyful as Psalm 32,11 tells us (Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you just; exult, all you upright of heart)
and Jesus Himself told us when He in Lk 10,20 said:
Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

My wife and I did not break after our son was murdered.
I know many friends with similar or even much harder fate and they did not break, for they trust in God and Jesus’ word who said in John 15,11:
"I have told you all this so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.”

Is there much room for sadness and despair?!
**

 

[seekdatruth]

Bruno,
I just want to say that I never meant to be rude to you in any forum post or email. It was a misunderstanding. The language barrier created a problem, but by my pointing that out in an email, I did not mean it to be an insult towards you. My German is bad, and sometimes my English is bad. I admit this freely. I say things that get me in trouble all the time. I rarely have animosity towards another person, and in those times, I do my best to reverse that. Hatred is the work of Satan. I never meant to be offensive towards you or anyone else, NEVER.
God bless!
Seek
…
Psalm 118:6

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Well, to tell you the truth, I did hurt a lot to get mailed, “your English is not to be understood” and so on. But I’ve really forgotten this, and it’s indeed not matter for this forum.

On the other hand; you are a really beautiful young mother with wonderful Children – I’m an old man of 71, so there are bound to be some misunderstandings, therefore I stopped mailing to you, for I’m an choleric –my fault – not yours.
No bad feelings at all!

But though such private matters are not subject of this forum, let’s make it subject, and look as Christians at these matters we often came across in this forum:

Commonly we get really furious at others who offend us. Be it in everyday life or even here in this forum. I witness it daily in many (German) Christian forums:
A friend of ours - friar of the Polish congregation “Of the Holy Family” wrote in the Forum of the Benedictines under the funny Nick (Menelaos), and he found himself attacked by all, even he of course wrote extraordinarily theologically and intellectual. It finally led to the closing of the forum.

This leads us to the question: Do we really love each other as Jesus not just asked us to, but He had commanded us to in John 13,34: “I give you a new commandment: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.”

Quarrels mostly originate of bossiness and are always silly. Thus we offend Gods law of love, and reduce ourselves in our rank of Christians.

If we overcome that way of selfish acting and humble ourselves, we will reach the highest rank we can get: To be a real Christian!

Then Christianity really would be as joyful as can be! For what is more joyful, then to be among loving people.

You “Seekdatruth” are on the right way – keep going that way of Jesus Christ. (I hope to reach the right way too).
**

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Belief in God - joyful or burdensome? Good question, hard to answer. It depends on the one being asked as we’re all at different stages in our life and journey with the Lord.
To me it is painful but God has turned that pain into something good. Because of this I find joy in my pain and sorrow. So my answer is that although there is some burden I have joy. I have not nor maybe will I always think this way and it’s the same for all. We always think good times will last forever when they come but they don’t, and it’s the same when bad times come too.
When the pain and suffering etc which makes the journey burdensome is turned into a positive and looked upon as a blessing and gift from God then all becomes joy. I hope this helps. God bless.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

Belief in God - joyful or burdensome? To me it is painful but God has turned that pain into something good. Because of this I find joy in my pain and sorrow. So my answer is that although there is some burden I have joy.

Does that pain and sorrow exist regardless to Christianity, or caused by Christianity?

Believing Christians who had to suffer – me included – endured without despair, because they are Christians. We would be in a desperate state without faith in God.
We learned that Realcatholicgk withstood the hell of Vietnam-war because he had faith in God. Many did.

I do a lot of mourning in forums for bereaved parents. There I had to learn, that persons who live in faith, we can console; people who don’t, hardly can be comforted.
“Christians” however, who are vague in their faith, often loose believe in God. They throw believe away as soon as something horrifying occurs. I knew a lady who shouted “THERE IS NO GOD” when her husband suddenly died.

So; we really do have to make clear, that it’s not the believe in God that brings sorrow and pain. Instead, all sorrow and pain that comes up to us, is ironclad a great lot easier to be carried - when we live in God.

All Saints who dedicated their lives to others in sacrificing charity, did not recognice their lives as sorrow. A friend of mine works in a hospice for the terminally ill all his life now. Nearly every day he holds dying in his arms while they go. They all do this and other, less dramatic things, in the joy of God.
My friend said, when I asked him how he stands all this and told him, I could not do so:

“This dying person sees God this very day! How could I else but love him then. My joy is, I’m remembered in heaven then, for Jesus pronounced: Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.
Is there anything more joyful than doing good for Jesus Himself?!"

We really ought to make clear, Christianity is not a bunch of sorrow and pain, but a lot of joy – beginning with the fact, that we never are alone, but we “have” God!
**

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Does that pain and sorrow exist regardless to Christianity, or caused by Christianity?

Believing Christians who had to suffer – me included – endured without despair, because they are Christians. We would be in a desperate state without faith in God.
We learned that Realcatholicgk withstood the hell of Vietnam-war because he had faith in God. Many did.

I do a lot of mourning in forums for bereaved parents. There I had to learn, that persons who live in faith, we can console; people who don’t, hardly can be comforted.
“Christians” however, who are vague in their faith, often loose believe in God. They throw believe away as soon as something horrifying occurs. I knew a lady who shouted “THERE IS NO GOD” when her husband suddenly died.

So; we really do have to make clear, that it’s not the believe in God that brings sorrow and pain. Instead, all sorrow and pain that comes up to us, is ironclad a great lot easier to be carried - when we live in God.

All Saints who dedicated their lives to others in sacrificing charity, did not recognice their lives as sorrow. A friend of mine works in a hospice for the terminally ill all his life now. Nearly every day he holds dying in his arms while they go. They all do this and other, less dramatic things, in the joy of God.
My friend said, when I asked him how he stands all this and told him, I could not do so:

**“This dying person sees God this very day! How could I else but love him then. My joy is, I’m remembered in heaven then, for Jesus pronounced: Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me. **
Is there anything more joyful than doing good for Jesus Himself?!"

We really ought to make clear, Christianity is not a bunch of sorrow and pain, but a lot of joy – beginning with the fact, that we never are alone, but we “have” God!

Dear Bruno, Thank you for sharing that. Your first question is a very important one. Will we have the same sorrow or suffering without belief in God? I don’t think it’ll be the same but we will still have plenty of suffering and sorrow without God. in fact we have much more without God. when we follow Jesus the burden is never too heavy but when we look at those that reject him are they really happy and how many suicide when real suffering comes? God did not cause all this suffering, pain and death. We and the demons did this with sin. But God has turned it all into something good. This is what we call our cross. our cross is never too heavy when we follow our Lord. The secret to happiness in this life is to learn to love the cross. You may not like it but you can love it. When you see what value it has and what great blessings it can bring for us and others and see how God uses this as the chief means of purifying and sanctifying us it is no longer burdensome. It is a blessing from God you love. Some people grow to love the cross so much they pray for more of it. Like St Francis of Assissi etc. We should all ask our Lord to teach us the value of the cross and help us to love it. Me included.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Actually same suffering and sorrow without God is much harder, for we then can not put our forlornness into the hands of the Greatest. Result: we really are forlorn then.

As the previous speaker pronounced: God NEVER causes any anguish, agony or death. This either depends on human relations, our free will and circumstances.
Else Jesus would neither have healed nor woken dead.

It definitely is sad always to be alone with all that moves us. That’s a huge pain. Loneliness gnaws on our very being. And it does so literally, for there is no real being without God, neither in lifetime nor after death.

A thoughtless person then told me: So what! If I don’t believe, I simply vanish and won’t know nothing then. That’s flat.

No! It’s not! For those who deny God will see God all the same and they will condemn themselves for now not being allowed to live eternally with God.

Since they have an immortal soul, they’ll live in what the bible has many descriptions for; in Mt 8,12 the outer darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth

Jesus didn’t tell us tales. Why should He, when taking the gruesome way of passion and salvation. Why else did He do it, but for love also for the least of the infidel.

Therefore it’s jut silly not to listen to the Word of Jesus in the bible.
There is not the slightest disadvantage in believe. To the contrary joy – even in the sorrow the world bears.

So why not start now.
**

 

[moen]

To Bruno and all:

During one of the many days we were all snowed in here, I searched on the internet for Near Death Experiences (Christian & Non)even though we can’t “prove” them, and I’m sure Theologians could say everything under the sun about them and YET there was a theme stated over and over again regarding the “without love, without God” state of our souls if we died in a “I willfully reject God’s love” state. (Or I guess very lukewarm). It was said many times that the state is that the absence of God is the absence of love and beyond description horrible.

I don’t know if that adds anything to this at all, but it was enlightening to me to read so many accounts all saying the same thing.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Well old chum, a friend of mine had this „Near Death Experience“ and he was very angry they brought him back then.

I myself was „clinically dead“ December 2007. I did not experience any epiphany, but woke up and was told I was “dead” ot before last September 2008 by a doctor, when I was in hospital again for my rotten heart. (My wife knew though but never told me). Well, I admit it disturbed me a little, for I had damn well non of this „Near Death Experience“.

Might be heavens thought; he knows anyhow what’s expecting him, so let him just sleep on ;-))) let’s help those docs to wake him up again, for his wifes sake

I’m sure, one dies normally when your time is over – not otherwise – however circumstances of your dying might be.

I did not thank God for still living last September when I was learned I was “dead”, for it’s no catastrophe to die, but the beginning of your actual life in absolute joy - as the Bible, as Jesus told us.

You think “sure Theologians could say everything under the sun about them” (near dead experiences). No they would not.

A “willfully reject God’s love - state" is for those who own the treasure of faith in God, as you rightly say “beyond description horrible”.

Those however, who think they alone are the Lord over their lives, don’t think so, as long as they presume they are far away from that door called DEATH that will lead them before Jesus Christ; – regardless if they recognised God in their life or not.

Then they will have to learn the truth of Matthew 10,33:
But whoever denies Me before others, I will deny before My heavenly Father.

Yes, your post did ad something to the thread, for many ask like you, and they are glad someone did it for them.
Thank’s for posting this question.
**

 

[Michael_David]

Moen, you bring in a very interesting detail with ‘near death experiences’ on how one lives life.

Sometimes, looking at the opposite helps to define and understand the thing we are looking at. We can look at death from our perspective here on earth; and we can look at death from the perspective of what happens next, although we are handicapped with the perspective of next… unless we have Faith. It seems to be where are we looking! Where is one’s treasure? Where is one’s love? And are we loved from this next place? All these are measured in the Heart and Soul… and metered into the mind. Since this references the spiritual realm, which is much more vast then our minds can comprehend, we pick-up on it in the soul, fed to the heart and finally to the mind in minimal amounts, what we can bear and depending on our own in-tuneness with these deeper areas of our being, where faith helps us to believe.

Have you ever heard the saying, “Love hurts”? Well, love does many things and there is Joy in love… and when love is mutual, it is ‘out of this world’. The joyful near death experiences are this ‘mutual’ love… the rest are perhaps the absence of this. This should tell us how to live right now! When is one most happy? When in the stream of love! Even in the hurt of love, it is still a happy time as we ‘know’ we are on the side of love by how we feel. And if God is Love… we have His help.

But this too brings in, which near death is most critical? Physical or Spiritual? Being at a near physical death, all that is left is the spiritual! So what is it? Loved or not?

 

[eludwig]

I think that believe in God is joyful. Even though at times the Christian life can be very demanding and difficult (some might see this as a burden) the way we deal with these times can still be joyful. If we place our suffereings at the foot of the cross, God can transform our sufferings into something beautiful.

Some thoughts to ponder:
If one does not have burdens how can they know joy?
I think that times of sorrow make times of joy even sweeter.

Rejoice always. Pray without ceasing. In all circumstances give thanks, for this is the will of God for you in Chirst Jesus.
~1 Thes 5:16-18

For the past year I have tried to live out these verses. The more I prayed and gave thanks (especially in my times of suffering) I experiences more joy in my life. Each day we wake up with an opportunity to choose joy. We have control over the way we see our situations in life.