Believe is Shaken

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Once again, to learn the truth, one has to resort to the original language.

The verse in Matthew uses the word ἀγοράζω (transliterated agorazō) which is translated consistently as “buy” or “purchase” in twenty-seven places in the NT. Three more instances in Revelation are translated “redeem” or “ransom” which certainly carries the same general idea.

A further examination of the verse in Acts shows that the Greek word used is κτάομαι (transliterated ktaomai). The other places it occurs in scripture are translated in as “acquire,” “get” “gain,” “obtain,” “bought,” and even “control”. It seems quite likely that the word could be used for something acquired through a transaction in which you used your own money, but it quite often used for other ways of coming into possession or control.

It seems quite probable that the two verses can be be reconciled. The Chief Priests made the actual purchase, but with Judas’ money, so Judas used that land to hang himself. Whether the Priests deeded it to him as part of the purchase or he was only squatting on it out of some morbid interest in seeing what happened to his money, or some other explanation is not stated. There really is no conflict between the two passages.

If I gave you the money to go buy some sandwiches, some people might say you bought some sandwiches, and some might say I bought them. Although it might be a little confusing, both would be right.

Almost always, any perceived inconsistencies in the Bible can be cleared up by looking at the original language and the wording used.
You’re reading way more into these verses than can possibly be known from what they say. Acts implies that the field was bought by the Chief Priest after Judas had already hung himself. It is pure conjecture to add everything about the Chief Priest possibly buying the field for Judas and then possibly deeding it to him, etc. If you add enough conjecture, almost any seeming contradictions can be reconciled. 🤷
 
You’re reading way more into these verses than can possibly be known from what they say. Acts implies that the field was bought by the Chief Priest after Judas had already hung himself. It is pure conjecture to add everything about the Chief Priest possibly buying the field for Judas and then possibly deeding it to him, etc. If you add enough conjecture, almost any seeming contradictions can be reconciled. 🤷
No, I’m not. Have you read them in the original languages? That makes everything clear, I even checked with a professor who has had a PhD in Biblical Studies for twenty tears.

I didn’t say the Chief Priest deeded the field to Judas. I said it was possible he did. Just possible. No one really knows. To understand the meaning of things that seem contradictory, one always has to check the original language and how the passage is worded. Then one has to check how that wording is used in other parts of the Bible. Why do you think universities award degrees in Biblical Studies?
 
You’re reading way more into these verses than can possibly be known from what they say. Acts implies that the field was bought by the Chief Priest after Judas had already hung himself. It is pure conjecture to add everything about the Chief Priest possibly buying the field for Judas and then possibly deeding it to him, etc. If you add enough conjecture, almost any seeming contradictions can be reconciled. 🤷
Where does Acts imply that the Chief Priest bought the field after Judas’ death? Acts 1:18 says: “He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out.” That sounds like he bought the land prior to his death.

However, it seems quite improbable that Judas, himself, bought the land. He threw the money back at the priests. The priests could have purchased the field for any number of reasons. However, they bought it with Judas’ money, so it’s just a matter of semantics to
say the priests bought the field or Judas bought the field. It seems quite clear that the priests bought the field, but with money they had given to Judas. The deeding is just conjecture because the priests would not have wanted a field purchased with “blood money.”

The Douay-Rheims version, which is my favorite bible says: “And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.” Doesn’t say who bought it or when. It just implies it was purchased with Judas’ blood money, however it DOES imply that it was purchased BEFORE Judas’ death, not after.

Judas couldn’t have purchased a field himself. He threw the money back at the priests. However, he could have possessed a field. The priests could have purchased it and given it to Judas because they would not have wanted “blood money.” Therefore, no matter who made the actual transaction, it was made with Judas’ money and Judas was the owner. And the Douay-Rheims does say he hanged himself. I really see no contradictions. It’s true, we don’t know all the details, but contradictory, no.

It’s funny that people quibble over this little seeming contradiction, which is really a lack of detail, yet gladly accept the nativities which can’t be reconciled no matter how one tries. 🤷

I don’t see anything in Acts that implies the Chief Priest bought the field AFTER Judas’ death, although that’s possible.

Kate needs to realize that the Bible is not a history book, though it is inerrant in matters of faith and morals.
 
The Pharisees bought it with his money, so there is no contradiction. And the rope Judas used could have been weak.

I will repeat it: Matthew wrote for the Jews.

The actual text may had said “before Quirinius was govenor of Syria.”
comereason.org/roman-census.asp
And contrary to this article Herod died in 1 B.C.

I still think you need to do some rethinking about your beliefs.
You’re exactly right; there is no contradiction.
 
Where does Acts imply that the Chief Priest bought the field after Judas’ death? Acts 1:18 says: “He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out.” That sounds like he bought the land prior to his death.

However, it seems quite improbable that Judas, himself, bought the land. He threw the money back at the priests. The priests could have purchased the field for any number of reasons. However, they bought it with Judas’ money, so it’s just a matter of semantics to
say the priests bought the field or Judas bought the field. It seems quite clear that the priests bought the field, but with money they had given to Judas. The deeding is just conjecture because the priests would not have wanted a field purchased with “blood money.”

The Douay-Rheims version, which is my favorite bible says: “And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.” Doesn’t say who bought it or when. It just implies it was purchased with Judas’ blood money, however it DOES imply that it was purchased BEFORE Judas’ death, not after.

Judas couldn’t have purchased a field himself. He threw the money back at the priests. However, he could have possessed a field. The priests could have purchased it and given it to Judas because they would not have wanted “blood money.” Therefore, no matter who made the actual transaction, it was made with Judas’ money and Judas was the owner. And the Douay-Rheims does say he hanged himself. I really see no contradictions. It’s true, we don’t know all the details, but contradictory, no.

It’s funny that people quibble over this little seeming contradiction, which is really a lack of detail, yet gladly accept the nativities which can’t be reconciled no matter how one tries. 🤷

I don’t see anything in Acts that implies the Chief Priest bought the field AFTER Judas’ death, although that’s possible.

Kate needs to realize that the Bible is not a history book, though it is inerrant in matters of faith and morals.
I misspoke in saying that Acts implied that the Chief Priest bought the field after Judas had hung himself. It’s Matthew that implies this:
5 Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. 6 But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, “It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since they are blood money.” 7 After conferring together, they used them to buy the potter’s field as a place to bury foreigners. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
To me, this passage implies that after he threw down the silver, he immediately left and went and hung himself. This passage also explicitly says that the field was bought by the Chief Priest and his people. We can imagine that Judas was perhaps buried in this field although the passage doesn’t actually say this.

Acts, on the other hand says:
18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong,[f] he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
To me it indicates that Judas was the one doing the acquiring while he was still alive. That is still a contradiction. The way that Judas died is also different in the two passages. We can try to reconcile these by saying that he hung himself and then fell headlong, but that is still just conjecture and is an attempt to reconcile contradictory accounts.

All of this might seem small and as you say, the nativities can’t be reconciled at all. As a product of human beings who lived long after the time of the events described, I’m not surprised by such contradictions, some small and others much larger. But they make it impossible for me to see Scripture as something inspired by God. If God is leading people to write these passages, why would there be any contradictions at all, even small ones?
 
Thorolfr #246
All of this might seem small and as you say, the nativities can’t be reconciled at all. As a product of human beings who lived long after the time of the events described, I’m not surprised by such contradictions, some small and others much larger. But they make it impossible for me to see Scripture as something inspired by God. If God is leading people to write these passages, why would there be any contradictions at all, even small ones?
You obviously know little about the Sacred Scriptures or the Magisterial authority created by the Christ in establishing His Catholic Church.

“Since, therefore, all that the inspired authors, or sacred writers, affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture, firmly, faithfully and without error, teach the truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the sacred Scriptures.” CCC #107].:

Re a literal interpretation see rtforum.org/lt/lt59.html
[Fr Brian Harrison refers to The *Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum) of Vatican II, 1963-5].
‘The true sense of Dei Verbum, 11, then, is not that the guarantee of inerrancy covers those propositions which a biblical author affirms (or teaches) as opposed to those which he merely “states,” i.e., with less force or deliberation, but still as an expression of his own judgment. Rather, it covers those propositions he affirms (or teaches) as opposed to those which he merely “uses materially,” i.e., those in which what appears on paper, taken in isolation, or in its most superficially literal sense, does not express his own judgment in any way.

‘These “materially used” (but not formally affirmed) propositions in Scripture would appear to be of three main kinds. First (and most obviously), there are those which the human author does not himself utter but attributes to someone else, in which case divine inspiration guarantees only the truthful reporting of such propositions, not the truth of the propositions themselves. Secondly, this category would include individual propositions used by the author as part of a parable or other imaginative literary composition, in which the formally affirmed teachings it sets out to convey emerge only from the story as a whole. Finally, there are propositions in which not every word is meant to be understood in the most immediate literal sense, since the author may be “using” hyperbole, metaphor, or other literary devices, even within a passage or book which is substantially ‘straight’ history or didactic teaching rather than fiction of some sort.

‘In short, what is essentially guaranteed to be true by virtue of divine inspiration, according to the sentence of* Dei Verbum*, 11, we are considering, is not the isolated propositions taken in their ‘surface’ meaning and without regard to their historical and literary context, but rather (as the next article of Dei Verbum puts it) “that meaning which the sacred writers really intended, and which God, by their words, wanted to make known.” 55 The discernment of that divine and human meaning is what the Church understands by a proper ‘literal’ interpretation of the text - which is not to be confused with a ‘literalist’ interpretation.” ’ [My emphasis].

There are no “errors” or “contradictions” in the meaning which the sacred writers intended.
 
There are no “errors” or “contradictions” in the meaning which the sacred writers intended.
It’s hardly a surprise that the individual authors of Scripture wrote what they intended to write. But that does not mean that they couldn’t write something that they believed to be true but about which they were actually mistaken. Nor would that mean that there are no contradictions between authors. The author of the Gospel of Matthew might be correct that it was the Chief Priest who bought the field whereas the author of Acts was simply mistaken in believing that Judas bought the field. So in that case, the author of Acts wrote what he intended, but he was mistaken.
 
It’s hardly a surprise that the individual authors of Scripture wrote what they intended to write. But that does not mean that they couldn’t write something that they believed to be true but about which they were actually mistaken. Nor would that mean that there are no contradictions between authors. The author of the Gospel of Matthew might be correct that it was the Chief Priest who bought the field whereas the author of Acts was simply mistaken in believing that Judas bought the field. So in that case, the author of Acts wrote what he intended, but he was mistaken.
The chief priests may have not known that Judas died.
 
I misspoke in saying that Acts implied that the Chief Priest bought the field after Judas had hung himself. It’s Matthew that implies this:

To me, this passage implies that after he threw down the silver, he immediately left and went and hung himself. This passage also explicitly says that the field was bought by the Chief Priest and his people. We can imagine that Judas was perhaps buried in this field although the passage doesn’t actually say this.

Acts, on the other hand says:

To me it indicates that Judas was the one doing the acquiring while he was still alive. That is still a contradiction. The way that Judas died is also different in the two passages. We can try to reconcile these by saying that he hung himself and then fell headlong, but that is still just conjecture and is an attempt to reconcile contradictory accounts.

All of this might seem small and as you say, the nativities can’t be reconciled at all. As a product of human beings who lived long after the time of the events described, I’m not surprised by such contradictions, some small and others much larger. But they make it impossible for me to see Scripture as something inspired by God. If God is leading people to write these passages, why would there be any contradictions at all, even small ones?
Weak rope bro!
 
I misspoke in saying that Acts implied that the Chief Priest bought the field after Judas had hung himself. It’s Matthew that implies this:

To me, this passage implies that after he threw down the silver, he immediately left and went and hung himself. This passage also explicitly says that the field was bought by the Chief Priest and his people. We can imagine that Judas was perhaps buried in this field although the passage doesn’t actually say this.

Acts, on the other hand says:

To me it indicates that Judas was the one doing the acquiring while he was still alive. That is still a contradiction. The way that Judas died is also different in the two passages. We can try to reconcile these by saying that he hung himself and then fell headlong, but that is still just conjecture and is an attempt to reconcile contradictory accounts.

All of this might seem small and as you say, the nativities can’t be reconciled at all. As a product of human beings who lived long after the time of the events described, I’m not surprised by such contradictions, some small and others much larger. But they make it impossible for me to see Scripture as something inspired by God. If God is leading people to write these passages, why would there be any contradictions at all, even small ones?
I agree with what you wrote in this post.
 
Thorolfr #248
It’s hardly a surprise that the individual authors of Scripture wrote what they intended to write. But that does not mean that they couldn’t write something that they believed to be true but about which they were actually mistaken.
It means precisely that – the writings in Sacred Scripture, “without error, teach the truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the sacred Scriptures." [CCC #107].:

As the Christ proved that he is God and established only His Catholic Church with Her Magisterium, and She guaranteed the Sacred Scriptures, only She can infallibly guide us as to the truths therein. Without that, your suppositions have led to the thousands of sects all teaching something different.

Not you, but Christ through His Church discerns that divine and human meaning – what the Church understands by a proper ‘literal’ interpretation of the text - which is not to be confused with a ‘literalist’ interpretation.

Christ is belittled when His Divine Will in His Catholic Church is rejected.
 
Thanks for the replies! It is much more than I expected (took me so long to read thru them all.)

Hey Kate… I understand what you are going through. I have similar doubts.

To everyone else, I am saddened, purposeless and aimless without God. I have little will to fight sin. I have little will to do good. In this state, the hedonist in me calls out. I shunned replying for awhile after posting the thread, thinking it was pointless.

But here I am, after wondering for awhile, i have the energy to try again. I will try the suggestions that you guys mentioned earlier. However, is it possible someone suggest something I can do when I am on the journey to work? Like since you now know this is my problem, what would u recommend to solve it? I am not able to view videos on the way to work though, just articles/websites.

Thanks! A part of me really wants to get to the bottom of this matter in my faith and either believe strongly or just leave the church. This doubts/ indecision is getting to me. I would love if the evidence to believe is strong, as the Catholic God is an awesome person and I hope that he is in control of the universe and will save us all.
 
Thanks for the replies! It is much more than I expected (took me so long to read thru them all.)

Hey Kate… I understand what you are going through. I have similar doubts.

To everyone else, I am saddened, purposeless and aimless without God. I have little will to fight sin. I have little will to do good. In this state, the hedonist in me calls out. I shunned replying for awhile after posting the thread, thinking it was pointless.

But here I am, after wondering for awhile, i have the energy to try again. I will try the suggestions that you guys mentioned earlier. However, is it possible someone suggest something I can do when I am on the journey to work? Like since you now know this is my problem, what would u recommend to solve it? I am not able to view videos on the way to work though, just articles/websites.

Thanks! A part of me really wants to get to the bottom of this matter in my faith and either believe strongly or just leave the church. This doubts/ indecision is getting to me. I would love if the evidence to believe is strong, as the Catholic God is an awesome person and I hope that he is in control of the universe and will save us all.
I think that this whole question is about the modes of credibility for the resurrection. Here is an article and lecture that tells the story.

hebrewcatholic.net/12-07-motives-of-credibility-for-faith/ by Dr. Lawrence Feingold.

This article has been mentioned on EWTN before so it is considered excellent.
 
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