Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

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Rather than the Jews, more relevant to the discussion is why don’t you accept Christ? No one goes to the Father except through him, and he is not Baha’u’llah.
Steve, lowering Baha’u’llah does not raise Christ. In Baha’i belief, ALL of the Manifestations sent by God are “the way, the truth, and the life” for Their time.

“…thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him.” Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, pp, 78-79

“The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice, is for man to free himself from idle fancy and imitation, discern with the eye of oneness His glorious handiwork, and look into all things with a searching eye.” Baha’u’llah, Words of Wisdom, p 157
 
Steve, lowering Baha’u’llah does not raise Christ. In Baha’i belief, ALL of the Manifestations sent by God are “the way, the truth, and the life” for Their time.

“…thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him.” Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, pp, 78-79

“The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice, is for man to free himself from idle fancy and imitation, discern with the eye of oneness His glorious handiwork, and look into all things with a searching eye.” Baha’u’llah, Words of Wisdom, p 157
Are jews justified by following the law of Moses?
 
how do we know Jesus is not Satan in disguise?

we could look at the fruits of Jesus.

we could look at Jesus casting out devils.

we could look at the words of Jesus and of the New Testament authors.
Amazing dear friend 🙂

…because these are the things that distinguish Bahaullah too.
we could compare the works and words of Jesus to the works of the devil.
Please compare Baha’u’llah to the works of the devil. Can you please list the works of the devil (please provide a source) and we can reasonably compare 🙂
I could go on and on, but I really wonder what motivates someone to ask such a question. it would seem such a question is mere bear baiting or is intended to demean Jesus. I can see no knowledgeable reason to ask such a question.
Yes I wondered the same thing from our mutual friend Techno, when he references Baha’u’llah. Please ask him this question 🙂
why some one might direct such a question to the person of bahuallah is understandable because Bahaullah does not recognize Jesus as God.
Why should He? I think someone who is the begetter of the Holy Spirit should know exactly who Jesus is…
Bahaullah does not accept the physical Resurrection of Jesus.
Neither did St.Paul. And Paul warned us against those who preach a different Gospel
so, yes, someone who reveres Bahaullah might be inclined to disparage Jesus since, despite the volumes Bahaullah wrote, Bahaullah never recognizes, acknowledges or accepts the many Divine Mysteries Jesus reveals to mankind. since Bahaullah disparages Jesus, perhaps not in so many words, by Bahaullah’s ignoring Him and ignoring the truths Jesus brought.
Please show me one quote where Baha’u’llah disparages Jesus. Just one…
if a person were to give reverence to Bahaullah it would naturally lead to a rejection of Jesus. even though someone might say, “oh no, Bahaullah did not reject Jesus, Bahaullah built on the teachings of Jesus”.
You could not be further from the Truth. Please show me one Bahai who rejects Jesus. Just one…
Bahaullah refused to bow to Jesus and refused to recognize the authority Jesus gave to His apostles and to their successors.
Why would the Begetter of the Holy Spirit bow to anyone??
so, it makes sense that some of those who reject Jesus would then imply that Jesus was a servant of Lucifer. after all, if their be all and end all prophet paid virtually no attention to Jesus and what He did and taught, it makes sense that the followers of Bahaullah would also follow Bahaullah in diminishing the Person and mission of Jesus.
Yes that would make sense only if you answer the questions in this post eddie.

But I guarantee i won’t see an answer to one of them…

🤷

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First of all Krishna is not my Lord and I would have really no idea to whom he refers; a past version of himself, possibly. I would defer the Hindus to answer that question, that is if I really cared. I also don’t care to hear the Baha’i interpretation of the Hindu religion.

What in the world does this have to do with the subject of this thread, Jesus Christ?
Well what it has to do with Jesus is that it implies a eternally existent Being who manifests Himself on earth from age to age.

Does that not sound like the Word made flesh to you??
It’s written in English, you can read it without requiring a Hindu priest to explain it to you. All I asked was for your personal understanding…

🙂
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I just spent 30 whole seconds coming up with this definition from the CCC of hell.

interesting that those asking for the catholic definition did not consider the matter important enough to spend 30 seconds on it.

definition: "This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God
and the blessed is called “hell.”


another interesting fact is that very earlier in my encounter with the bahai who post here I was told that according to Bahaullah life after death is an eternal progression with no destination ever anticipated or arrived at.

I said at that time I considered such a doctrine to be a type of hell in itself. I choose to reject a doctrine of eternal growth as the bahai seem to be interpreting Bahaullah.
Sounds like the Bahai definition of hell to me…

So there you go Techno! 🙂

In regards to our final destination, it is the presence of God eddie. The reason why it’s an infinite journey is because what happens AFTER you attain His presence, is an eternal dance of deeper love.
That’s the best description I can give…

Hope that clarifies it all for you 🙂

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[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Techno, this is reference to the decline of the Christian Faith. A time will come.

Why would this reference teachings outside of Christianity? During that time there was already a lot of non-Christian babble, there was no need to say “a time will come” if it was about non-Christian teaching, because at the time there was already a lot ear itching and “following their own desires”, so clearly it’s a reference to Christian teaching.

I assure you, the teachings of Baha’u’llah is very sound doctrine

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Then help me understand. One thing that is irrefutable is that the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic Church have not changed since its inception. What the Church has believed since the beginning is very well documented through the writings of the early Church fathers. Keep in mind that some of these holy men were contemporaries of the Apostles, students and disciples. These men believed and taught what they had received directly from the Apostles. And they believed that Jesus was God; the eternal Son of the Father, who was begotten, not made, one in being with the Father.

Now we have two choices based upon your premise. Either these men completely misunderstood the apostolic teaching and proclamation; the “kerygma”, or the Apostles never understood who Jesus really was to begin with. Actually there is another choice; that because of the presence of Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit the kerygma, the heart of the Gospel, the most essential proclamation, was transmitted without error from Jesus to the Apostles to the Church. So which is it?

Your entire position is based upon the false presumption that Christians, including the Apostles, it appears, had an infantile understanding of what Jesus taught them, with the limited capacity to receive only milk, rather than meat. There is a total disregard for the teachings of the oldest living institution in the world who’s founder was Jesus Christ. I have asked before and the question is ignored each time: Is there any Catholic doctrine in which you believe? No. Total disregard, as if we were children who believed that babies come from storks.

Truth is not dependent upon ones capacity to understand. It exists whether or not we understand or believe. The question is, regardless of ones capacity, is the relative understanding based upon truth or falsehood?

No. It makes them wrong. Are you that unsure of the truthfulness of your faith, that someone in the future may prove you wrong?

Catholics believe that the truth we received from Christ, through the Apostles, is eternal and can never change. That is why we vehemently reject someone like Baha’u’llah.

I have no idea who these people are.

This condescending attitude is getting really old, Servant. We are not children. Please do not speak to us as if we were. Thanks.

And the issue was settled, very quickly, by the Church who followed the same conciliar model that the Church still follows. After much discussion, Peter stood and the bishops fell silent. He spoke and the matter was settled; Gentiles were not subject to circumcision. So what does this have to do with anything?

Yes. It was a settled matter. And the Church guarded and protected this truth in the face of many heresies concerning the nature of Christ. Even in the face of a majority of bishops (Arians) the Church maintained what it had always believed without change or modification.

Please don’t ignore this post, Servant. I am very interested in your comments.

Thanks.

Steve
Hi Steve,

I am ignoring this post!!

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(Kidding!! Lol …I’ll have a study of it tomorrow and get back to it then :). )

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Well what it has to do with Jesus is that it implies a eternally existent Being who manifests Himself on earth from age to age.
Thus, my point. You can’t be talking about Jesus. He was incarnate, once. He died, once. And he rose from the dead, once and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Jesus does not reincarnate from age to age. What he came to do has been done, accomplished in its fullness. The Kingdom is at hand. We wait for his glorious return at the end of time. We are grateful that he has been patient.
Does that not sound like the Word made flesh to you??
It’s written in English, you can read it without requiring a Hindu priest to explain it to you. All I asked was for your personal understanding…🙂
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My ears aren’t that easily tickled, I guess.

Servant, many people have written many beautiful things, full of truth and wisdom. Baha’u’llah writes beautifully and much that he has to say is true and good and wise. I am certain the same can be said for Krishna. The Quran contains some of the most beautiful names and titles for God ever written. And I have told you this before: we recognize, acknowledge and embrace all truth and beauty contained in all other religions.

We must, however, reject anything purported to be from God that conflicts or contradicts with the truth received once from the Apostles by the Catholic Church. Can you understand that we have no need to look for new revelations from anyone? Why would one who believes that Christ is the fullness of God’s revelation of Himself to man continue to look for further revelation?
 
Are jews justified by following the law of Moses?
Explain what you mean by ‘justified’. The Jews certainly drew closer to God by following Moses and the OT teachings, and God will surely deal with the beliefs and actions of each individual with perfect justice. However, to this day they refuse their Messiah, and Jesus told them:

“For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me”
“But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” John 5:46-47 (KJV)

The Jews do recognize that many of the OT laws are unenforceable and out of date:

“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.” Leviticus 20:9 (KJV)

Humanity marches on, a new (but the same) sun rises, and new prescriptions are needed because the condition of the patient has changed, which explains why there is a need for a new prophet, every thousand years, or so, to update the laws and social expressions of society, to restate the unchangeable spiritual truths, and to draw men ever closer to God.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, p 213
 
Humanity marches on, a new (but the same) sun rises
If it is the same it is not new. The one sun is sufficient.
and new prescriptions are needed because the condition of the patient has changed
What, exactly, has changed? Love, goodness, kindness, compassion, mercy, charity, pride, anger, envy, lust, theft, false witness, murder? Humans are pretty much what they have always been. We are in need of a Savior.
which explains why there is a need for a new prophet, every thousand years, or so, to update the laws and social expressions of society, to restate the unchangeable spiritual truths, and to draw men ever closer to God.
To “update the laws and social expressions of society”? Really? As far as restating unchangeable truths, that is why Jesus founded a Church, promised to remain with it and to send the Holy Spirit to guide it into all truth. The Church has proclaimed the unchangeable truth through each century for 2000 years, the New and Everlasting covenant in Christ. There is no need for anyone to come and update us on anything.
 
Explain what you mean by ‘justified’. The Jews certainly drew closer to God by following Moses and the OT teachings, and God will surely deal with the beliefs and actions of each individual with perfect justice. However, to this day they refuse their Messiah, and Jesus told them:

“For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me”
“But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” John 5:46-47 (KJV)

The Jews do recognize that many of the OT laws are unenforceable and out of date:

“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.” Leviticus 20:9 (KJV)

Humanity marches on, a new (but the same) sun rises, and new prescriptions are needed because the condition of the patient has changed, which explains why there is a need for a new prophet, every thousand years, or so, to update the laws and social expressions of society, to restate the unchangeable spiritual truths, and to draw men ever closer to God.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, p 213
By justified I mean being made acceptable to God. Does the law lead to eternal life? Is the law and following of it what makes the jews acceptable to God?
 
If it is the same it is not new. The one sun is sufficient.
Steve, based on all the Baha’i posts on CAF (thousands) and the back and forths you’ve had with Baha’is, you are generally familiar with Baha’i beliefs. You may not agree with Baha’i understandings and explanations, but you are aware of what they are.

So, at this point, replowing already plowed ground would not be helpful.

May you be the best Catholic you can. 🙂
 
Steve, based on all the Baha’i posts on CAF (thousands) and the back and forths you’ve had with Baha’is, you are generally familiar with Baha’i beliefs. You may not agree with Baha’i understandings and explanations, but you are aware of what they are.

So, at this point, replowing already plowed ground would not be helpful.

May you be the best Catholic you can. 🙂
Can’t argue with that. 👍
 
Steve - And when He comes mankind rejects Him.

Funny world we live in, do you not agree? 😉 😊

God Bless and Regards Tony
Translation: If you don’t accept Baha’u’llah you have rejected the savior, just as Jesus was rejected.

The Savior came once, Tony, and yes, many rejected him and still do. Christ said that narrow is the road and few there be that find it. But no reason to despair. There is still time to believe. I, and about 1.3 billion others have chosen to accept him. You can do the same. 🙂
 
Thus, my point. You can’t be talking about Jesus. He was incarnate, once. He died, once. And he rose from the dead, once and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Jesus does not reincarnate from age to age. What he came to do has been done, accomplished in its fullness. The Kingdom is at hand. We wait for his glorious return at the end of time. We are grateful that he has been patient.
Do you have any references that the Word will only incarnate once, in Jesus, and never again, please?

Now I am not talking about Jesus being the one and only Son of God, because that is a title given to Jesus, and ONLY Jesus, Baha’is will never dispute that.

I’m looking for the evidence you have that the Word will only incarnate once please.
My ears aren’t that easily tickled, I guess.
Servant, many people have written many beautiful things, full of truth and wisdom. Baha’u’llah writes beautifully and much that he has to say is true and good and wise. I am certain the same can be said for Krishna. The Quran contains some of the most beautiful names and titles for God ever written. And I have told you this before: we recognize, acknowledge and embrace all truth and beauty contained in all other religions.
It’s not about beauty Steve, I don’t care about the beauty of the Words (although I acknowledge that literary beauty is a Divine attribute in His Word), its all about how the Words embrace a soul in darkness, and plunge it into an ocean of light and enables the relationship of God and man to be one and the same.

Baha’u’llah and Krishna and Muhammad were not trying to be really good poets, they were transforming every visible and invisible entity in Creation into lovers of God, hopelessly and helplessly in love. I’ve seen it with my own eyes Steve, souls who were lost, after reading the Words of Baha’u’llah became better Christians than any Christian I have ever met face to face. Lovers of humanity, selfless, humble, and sacrificial, willing to give up their lives for the reverent service of all.
We must, however, reject anything purported to be from God that conflicts or contradicts with the truth received once from the Apostles by the Catholic Church. Can you understand that we have no need to look for new revelations from anyone? Why would one who believes that Christ is the fullness of God’s revelation of Himself to man continue to look for further revelation?
Yes, of course I understand. The moment the Church says that the Truth it reveals has been superseded by Baha’u’llah’s Writings, well, it would look rather silly wouldn’t it?

The Baha’i Faith encourages and empowers individuals to investigate Truth through a much broader perspective. It embraces the Truths within all religious Scripture and explains them fully, Baha’i scholars spend decades studying the Baha’i Writings in relation to other religious Scriptures.

If you personally wish to deprive yourself of the richness and beauty found in God’s various and diverse expressions and manifestations throughout the world from the beginning of time, that is your choice.

This is why I have brought up this vital piece of Scripture from Lord Krishna, it was revealed before Jesus, has similar authenticity to Jesus’ words, and “broadens” the horizon of the “Word made manifest” to include Krishna (and others)

Why you would wish to ignore this reality is interesting, maybe you are trying to demonstrate unquestionable loyalty to the Church, but the choice is yours. God is much more than the Church dear friend :)… I prefer to embrace and seek to understand God, and His diverse ways, infinite in nature and expression.

🙂
 
Christ said that narrow is the road and few there be that find it.



I, and about 1.3 billion others have chosen to accept him. You can do the same. 🙂
Doesn’t sound too narrow a road to me…

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