Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

[SteveVH]

I would have no problem in a God that sends all those that have sinned to hell and all those that have not sinned to heaven (this is very simplistic, I know) from the beginning of time.

But what you are failing to address Steve, is the “changing of the goalposts” which is being presented by Christian theology. The injustice arises from the proposal that “this is good enough now, but it was not good enough then”

One more time. Jesus’ sacrifice was for everyone, from Adam to the last person that will be born. Where is the injustice? The people in Abraham’s time have just as much opportunity to be saved as you and I. The sacrifice is eternal and spans all of human history.

 

[SteveVH]

What I’m saying is that they have seen
the Light as God or the Light as Jesus Christ.

I don’t think the Baha’i would disagree with that. They believe that Baha’u’llah and Jesus are manifestations of the one God.

 

[Techno2000]

I don’t think the Baha’i would disagree with that. They believe that Baha’u’llah and Jesus are manifestations of the one God.

You can’t win they got everything covered .

 

[Techno2000]

I don’t think the Baha’i would disagree with that. They believe that Baha’u’llah and Jesus are manifestations of the one God.

And the idea of a Trinity boggles their mind.

 

[Servant19]

One more time. Jesus’ sacrifice was for everyone, from Adam to the last person that will be born. Where is the injustice? **The people in Abraham’s time have just as much opportunity to be saved as you and **I. The sacrifice is eternal and spans all of human history.

Well now you are contradicting yourself where you stated:

No one was saved during the “dispensation of Moses” because no one could follow the law perfectly, not even Moses. He was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. No one was saved until the Perfect One, Jesus, Son of the Living God, King of kings, Lord of lords, was offered as a sacrifice

You do realise that the Perfect One was sacrificed at some point in time right?
This means that BEFORE that time, according to your statement, no one was saved…



.

 

[Servant19]

And the idea of a Trinity boggles their mind.

Not at all…the mystery of the Trinity has been elaborated fully by the Baha’i Revelation.

What the Baha’i Writings clearly and rationally explain, the Christian Faith dismisses these clarifications totally and would rather cling to its mystery…



.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Not at all…the mystery of the Trinity has been elaborated fully by the Baha’i Revelation.

What the Baha’i Writings clearly and rationally explain, the Christian Faith dismisses these clarifications totally and would rather cling to its mystery…



.

Servant define the trinity as opposed to three persons, father son and holy spirit in one substance. Do not quote your prophet, do not not define it beyond a sentence. Can you do that? Now take in mind you need to define the trinity not opposition to the original but in clarification. Go ahead and do it.

The trinity was defined in the fourth century, there is really no need for clarification.

 

[tonyfish58]

And the idea of a Trinity boggles their mind.

Very interesting comment, when it is a Christian Doctrine that says the Trinity is mind Boggling, to use your words.

“…The Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. Indeed, of all revealed truths this is the most** impenetrable to reason/B]…”

newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm#IV

Baha’u’llah has explained the concept of the Trinity that Reason can now be used.

So well is it explained is that in fact it no Longer Boggles the Mind of Humanity, if one accepts the explanation.

God Bless Reasoning based on Justice - Regards Tony**

 

[Techno2000]

Very interesting comment, when it is a Christian Doctrine that says the Trinity is mind Boggling, to use your words.

“…The Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. Indeed, of all revealed truths this is the most** impenetrable to reason/B]…”

newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm#IV**

Baha’u’llah has explained the concept of the Trinity that Reason can now be used.

So well is it explained is that in fact it no Longer Boggles the Mind of Humanity, if one accepts the explanation.

God Bless Reasoning based on Justice - Regards TonyThe Catholic Trinity does not Boggle my Mind, its the Newage one that does because it can be anything they want it to be.

 

[tonyfish58]

Servant define the trinity as opposed to three persons, father son and holy spirit in one substance. Do not quote your prophet, do not not define it beyond a sentence. Can you do that? Now take in mind you need to define the trinity not opposition to the original but in clarification. Go ahead and do it.

The trinity was defined in the fourth century, there is really no need for clarification.

IgnatianPhilo - Why? Christ had more to say unto us and Christ has Gifted us with this explanation which is understandable and reasonable? bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings

“…But as to the question of the Trinity, know, 0 advancer unto God, that in each one of the cycles [dispensations of a Manifestation] . . . there are necessarily three things, the Giver of the Grace, and the Grace, and the Recipient of the Grace; the Source of the Effulgence, and the Effulgence, and the Recipient of the Effulgence; the Illuminator, and the Illumination, and the Illumined. Look at the Mosaic cycle – the Lord, and Moses, and the Fire (i.e., the Burning Bush), the intermediary; and in the Messianic cycle, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost the intermediary; and in the Muhammudan [sic] cycle, the Lord and the Apostle (or Messenger, Muhammad) and Gabriel (for, as the Muhammadans believe, Gabriel brought the Revelation from God to Muhammad,) the intermediary. Look at the Sun and its rays and the heat which results from its rays: the rays and the heat are but two effects of the Sun, but inseparable from it and sent out from it; yet is the Sun one in its essence, unique in its real identity, single in its Attributes, neither is it possible for anything to resemble it. Such is the Essence of the Truth concerning the Unity, the real doctrine of the Singularity, the undiluted reality as to the (Divine) Sanctuary”. ('Abdul-Bahá, Tablets from Abdul Beha Abbas 9.)

God bless the most wonderful of reasoning! Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

The Catholic Trinity does not Boggle my Mind, its the Newage one that does because it can be anything they want it to be.

Posted above is an explanation of the Divine Unity of the Three in One, Please provide the explanation that you have to share.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo - Why? Christ had more to say unto us and Christ has Gifted us with this explanation which is understandable and reasonable? bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings

“…But as to the question of the Trinity, know, 0 advancer unto God, that in each one of the cycles [dispensations of a Manifestation] . . . there are necessarily three things, the Giver of the Grace, and the Grace, and the Recipient of the Grace; the Source of the Effulgence, and the Effulgence, and the Recipient of the Effulgence; the Illuminator, and the Illumination, and the Illumined. Look at the Mosaic cycle – the Lord, and Moses, and the Fire (i.e., the Burning Bush), the intermediary; and in the Messianic cycle, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost the intermediary; and in the Muhammudan [sic] cycle, the Lord and the Apostle (or Messenger, Muhammad) and Gabriel (for, as the Muhammadans believe, Gabriel brought the Revelation from God to Muhammad,) the intermediary. Look at the Sun and its rays and the heat which results from its rays: the rays and the heat are but two effects of the Sun, but inseparable from it and sent out from it; yet is the Sun one in its essence, unique in its real identity, single in its Attributes, neither is it possible for anything to resemble it. Such is the Essence of the Truth concerning the Unity, the real doctrine of the Singularity, the undiluted reality as to the (Divine) Sanctuary”. ('Abdul-Bahá, Tablets from Abdul Beha Abbas 9.)

God bless the most wonderful of reasoning! Regards Tony

Are you able to define it in your own words? If not don’t bother.

 

[Techno2000]

IgnatianPhilo - Why? Christ had more to say unto us and Christ has Gifted us with this explanation which is understandable and reasonable? bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings

“…But as to the question of the Trinity, know, 0 advancer unto God, that in each one of the cycles [dispensations of a Manifestation] . . . there are necessarily three things, the Giver of the Grace, and the Grace, and the Recipient of the Grace; the Source of the Effulgence, and the Effulgence, and the Recipient of the Effulgence; the Illuminator, and the Illumination, and the Illumined. Look at the Mosaic cycle – the Lord, and Moses, and the Fire (i.e., the Burning Bush), the intermediary; and in the Messianic cycle, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost the intermediary; and in the Muhammudan [sic] cycle, the Lord and the Apostle (or Messenger, Muhammad) and Gabriel (for, as the Muhammadans believe, Gabriel brought the Revelation from God to Muhammad,) the intermediary. Look at the Sun and its rays and the heat which results from its rays: the rays and the heat are but two effects of the Sun, but inseparable from it and sent out from it; yet is the Sun one in its essence, unique in its real identity, single in its Attributes, neither is it possible for anything to resemble it. Such is the Essence of the Truth concerning the Unity, the real doctrine of the Singularity, the undiluted reality as to the (Divine) Sanctuary”. ('Abdul-Bahá, Tablets from Abdul Beha Abbas 9.)

God bless the most wonderful of reasoning! Regards Tony

This all sounds like Newage gobbledygook to me.

 

[tonyfish58]

Are you able to define it in your own words? If not don’t bother.

Absolutely No bother dear friend in God

I have no intention to Spoil the most reasonable explanation ever given.

It is easy to summarise though

SUN - RAYS - HEAT

GOD - CHRIST - HOLY SPIRIT

Compare the two and you have the explanation

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Absolutely No bother dear friend in God

I have no intention to Spoil the most reasonable explanation ever given.

It is easy to summarise though

SUN - RAYS - HEAT

GOD - CHRIST - HOLY SPIRIT

Compare the two and you have the explanation

God Bless and Regards Tony

And this does not contradict what early Christians and we as Christians say right now?

 

[Techno2000]

IgnatianPhilo - Why? Christ had more to say unto us and Christ has Gifted us with this explanation which is understandable and reasonable? bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings

“…But as to the question of the Trinity, know, 0 advancer unto God, that in each one of the cycles [dispensations of a Manifestation] . . . there are necessarily three things, the Giver of the Grace, and the Grace, and the Recipient of the Grace; the Source of the Effulgence, and the Effulgence, and the Recipient of the Effulgence; the Illuminator, and the Illumination, and the Illumined. Look at the Mosaic cycle – the Lord, and Moses, and the Fire (i.e., the Burning Bush), the intermediary; and in the Messianic cycle, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost the intermediary; and in the Muhammudan [sic] cycle, the Lord and the Apostle (or Messenger, Muhammad) and Gabriel (for, as the Muhammadans believe, Gabriel brought the Revelation from God to Muhammad,) the intermediary. Look at the Sun and its rays and the heat which results from its rays: the rays and the heat are but two effects of the Sun, but inseparable from it and sent out from it; yet is the Sun one in its essence, unique in its real identity, single in its Attributes, neither is it possible for anything to resemble it. Such is the Essence of the Truth concerning the Unity, the real doctrine of the Singularity, the undiluted reality as to the (Divine) Sanctuary”. ('Abdul-Bahá, Tablets from Abdul Beha Abbas 9.)

God bless the most wonderful of reasoning! Regards Tony

Now Muhammad part of the Trinity, thats funny Dante saw him in the Eighth circle of Hell.

 

[tonyfish58]

And this does not contradict what early Christians and we as Christians say right now?

The difference!

The Rays and the Heat, though not separable from the Sun, are not the Sun. Both the Rays and The Heat are but Two Effects.

Thus Christ and the Holy Spirit though not separable from God, are not God.

This is the intent of the explanation also shown in the Koran.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The difference!

The Rays and the Heat, though not separable from the Sun, are not the Sun. Both the Rays and The Heat are but Two Effects.

Thus Christ and the Holy Spirit though not separable from God, are not God.

This is the intent of the explanation also shown in the Koran.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Was this the intent of the fathers of Nicaea, Constantinople, Chalcedon and others?

 

[Servant19]

Was this the intent of the fathers of Nicaea, Constantinople, Chalcedon and others?

No the fathers of Nicea, Chalcedon etc. were guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit deemed it necessary to reveal what it did to them for a Divine Purpose.

Today, in this new heaven and new earth, the Holy Spirit has deemed it necessary to teach what the Bahai Revelation has provided.

The same thing happened when Jesus came and taught differently to what the Jews had been taught…

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

No the fathers of Nicea, Chalcedon etc. were guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit deemed it necessary to reveal what it did to them for a Divine Purpose.

Today, in this new heaven and new earth, the Holy Spirit has deemed it necessary to teach what the Bahai Revelation has provided.

The same thing happened when Jesus came and taught differently to what the Jews had been taught…

.

So they were guided by the spirit to say Jesus and the Holy spirit is God? Do you really believe that?