Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

[SteveVH]

Baha’is accept ALL the dogmas and doctrines of the Church as being true and valid for the entirety of the Christian Dispensation. They are no longer true today.

lol. Thank you for this, Servant. It is now very clear to everyone. The Baha’i believe that something can be true one day and false the next. Truth is relative.

This is absolutely irrational. The divinity of Christ is a fundamental Christian doctrine. Therefore, according to the Baha’i, we are to believe that Jesus was God, but only for a time. Now, somehow, he is no longer God. He lost his divinity with the advent of the new dispensation, whenever that was. Sorry, Jesus, your time is up.

This is exactly like saying that gravity use to be true, but today it no longer applies. I can now jump off a 20 story building and simply fly away.

Let me just say this, Servant. I reject the philosophy of the Baha’i at the cellular level. It is not only false doctrine, but, as you have just demonstrated, utterly irrational and unreasonable. Maybe this is why it has such relatively few adherents.

Truth cannot conflict with truth. Most people get that, thank God!

 

[Servant19]

lol. Thank you for this, Servant. It is now very clear to everyone. The Baha’i believe that something can be true one day and false the next. Truth is relative.

This is absolutely irrational. The divinity of Christ is a fundamental Christian doctrine. Therefore, according to the Baha’i, we are to believe that Jesus was God, but only for a time. Now, somehow, he is no longer God. He lost his divinity with the advent of the new dispensation, whenever that was. Sorry, Jesus, your time is up.

This is exactly like saying that gravity use to be true, but today it no longer applies. I can now jump off a 20 story building and simply fly away.

Let me just say this, Servant. I reject the philosophy of the Baha’i at the cellular level. It is not only false doctrine, but, as you have just demonstrated, utterly irrational and unreasonable. Maybe this is why it has such relatively few adherents.

Truth cannot conflict with truth. Most people get that, thank God!

So you are basically saying that the Jews were lied to by Moses…that Moses revealed Laws that were not true and in fact all a big lie…

This is fascinating…

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[Servant19]

THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order.

What does that mean ?

It means a new heaven and a new earth exists within creation, and maybe you are asleep to it

The moment Jesus said “I am” the equilibrium of the world was upset and a new creation came about.

The same happened with Baha’u’llah’s announcement of “I am”

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[Techno2000]

It means a new heaven and a new earth exists within creation, and maybe you are asleep to it

The moment Jesus said “I am” the equilibrium of the world was upset and a new creation came about.

The same happened with Baha’u’llah’s announcement of “I am”

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And what is the vibrating influence ?

 

[Servant19]

And what is the vibrating influence ?

Baha’u’llah says that every single atom in the universe vibrates in tune with His Revelation from the moment of His Declaration (actually from the moment His forerunner, the Bab declared in 1844). Once we harness that energy, it will give rise to the greatest material advancement the world has ever seen, and that is evidenced from what we have seen in history since the year 1844.

There were more inventions in the last century than there were in the past 1000 years put together.

Technological and material advancement for the benefit of mankind has never been so advanced and this is accelerating every day. It is only when we align our material advancements with the spirit design for it, given by Baha’u’llah that we will see progress in the world never before witnessed in human history.

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[Techno2000]

Baha’u’llah says that every single atom in the universe vibrates in tune with His Revelation from the moment of His Declaration (actually from the moment His forerunner, the Bab declared in 1844). Once we harness that energy, it will give rise to the greatest material advancement the world has ever seen, and that is evidenced from what we have seen in history since the year 1844.

There were more inventions in the last century than there were in the past 1000 years put together.

Technological and material advancement for the benefit of mankind has never been so advanced and this is accelerating every day. It is only when we align our material advancements with the spirit design for it, given by Baha’u’llah that we will see progress in the world never before witnessed in human history.

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So like the iphone is one of the tools Baha’u’llah uses to save Mankind ?

 

[Servant19]

So like the iphone is one of the tools Baha’u’llah uses to save Mankind ?

If it wasn’t for your iPhone and the technology and concepts surrounding the internet, we would not be conversing.

The vibrating influence of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation is the cause behind the world becoming a place where you and I can learn from each other, show understanding and love for one another, and this raises consciousness and educates the ignorant.

We now know more about other peoples cultural, religious and national backgrounds than ever before in human history, and this is why today, in this glorious Day, these Last Days the unification of the human race is not only possible but inevitable.

I can talk to someone who shares the same hobby as I, from Kuwait (I have never known anyone from Kuwait before, but this really happened), face to face on my iPhone with Skype, and I can learn about his/her family, his/her culture, his/her religion and this draws me closer to them in a loving way, never before possible.

So yes, Baha’u’llah uses an iPhone to save mankind. He uses everything, its all because of Him…

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[Techno2000]

If it wasn’t for your iPhone and the technology and concepts surrounding the internet, we would not be conversing.

The vibrating influence of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation is the cause behind the world becoming a place where you and I can learn from each other, show understanding and love for one another, and this raises consciousness and educates the ignorant.

We now know more about other peoples cultural, religious and national backgrounds than ever before in human history, and this is why today, in this glorious Day, these Last Days the unification of the human race is not only possible but inevitable.

I can talk to someone who shares the same hobby as I, from Kuwait (I have never known anyone from Kuwait before, but this really happened), face to face on my iPhone with Skype, and I can learn about his/her family, his/her culture, his/her religion and this draws me closer to them in a loving way, never before possible.

So yes, Baha’u’llah uses an iPhone to save mankind. He uses everything, its all because of Him…

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I see, through the beneficial atoms of Bab and Baha’u’llah someday we might see technology like in the movie Minority Report starring Tom cruise .

 

[Servant19]

I see, through the beneficial atoms of Bab and Baha’u’llah someday we might see technology like in the movie Minority Report starring Tom cruise .

Or even like the kung fu moves in Kung Fu Panda…

May God bless you

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[Servant19]

You really don’t have the faintest clue of even the basics of Christianity. Jesus is eternal because Jesus is divine; the Almighty God. The fact that he became incarnate and entered into time does not mean he gave up his divinity. His sacrifice was for all of mankind and is not limited by time and space. So please stop trying to set up a straw man so that you have something to burn down. If you want to differ with Christianity, then please differ with what it really teaches and holds to be true.

This has nothing to do with basic Christianity and my understanding of it.

Its basic theology and an understanding of events that took place at a point in time being mixed in with some concept that took place outside of time.

It seems clear that you are deliberately avoiding the question and getting “finger pointy” and rebuking me for questioning this concept the way I am.

Happy to leave it if its only going to anger you Steve

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[Techno2000]

This has nothing to do with basic Christianity and my understanding of it.

Its basic theology and an understanding of events that took place at a point in time being mixed in with some concept that took place outside of time.

It seems clear that you are deliberately avoiding the question and getting “finger pointy” and rebuking me for questioning this concept the way I am.

Happy to leave it if its only going to anger you Steve

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No, don’t leave Servant 19 tell us more about this technology of Bab and Baha’u’llah.

 

[SteveVH]

So you are basically saying that the Jews were lied to by Moses…that Moses revealed Laws that were not true and in fact all a big lie…

This is fascinating…

When did I even come close to saying that? Please give me the quote.

 

[eddie_too]

I think we are one one Heart beat apart, we are oh so close!

Lets again Use the Sun, Rays & light as God, Son & Holy Spirit in conjunction with each other

All these three aspects can be seen as God and to this no Blame can be attributed to this.

The Light is of God, the Rays are of God, The Sun is God.

If there was no Sun there are no Rays or Light, if there is a Sun there are Rays and Light.

The Existence of the Sun is not Dependent on the Rays and the Light, But the Rays and the Light are subject to the Assistance of the Sun.

Now try to Look at the Sun, can a person? No, the rays and the light sustain us, but to face the Sun Directly would result in blindness.

Thus we can Know God by Christ and the Holy Spirit, but we can never look upon God Directly. Christ is thus Not God, but is of God and sustains us.

We are faced with this every day of our lives when we meditate upon the Nature of the Sun.

God Bless and Regards Tony

the section above that I bolded is contrary to what we were taught by Jesus.

Jesus taught us that there are three eternal persons, all three uncreated, all three sharing perfectly the One Divine Nature. the only distinction that can be made about any of the three Divine Persons is that they are truly distinct from each other.

that is what JESUS taught. that is what Bahaullah denies.

 

[Techno2000]

When did I even come close to saying that? Please give me the quote.

Go back a see what Servant19 just posted to me.

 

[Techno2000]

I think we are one one Heart beat apart, we are oh so close!

Lets again Use the Sun, Rays & light as God, Son & Holy Spirit in conjunction with each other

All these three aspects can be seen as God and to this no Blame can be attributed to this.

The Light is of God, the Rays are of God, The Sun is God.

If there was no Sun there are no Rays or Light, if there is a Sun there are Rays and Light.

The Existence of the Sun is not Dependent on the Rays and the Light, But the Rays and the Light are subject to the Assistance of the Sun.

Now try to Look at the Sun, can a person? No, the rays and the light sustain us, but to face the Sun Directly would result in blindness.

Thus we can Know God by Christ and the Holy Spirit, but we can never look upon God Directly. Christ is thus Not God, but is of God and sustains us.

We are faced with this every day of our lives when we meditate upon the Nature of the Sun.

God Bless and Regards Tony

the section above that I bolded is contrary to what we were taught by Jesus.

Jesus taught us that there are three eternal persons, all three uncreated, all three sharing perfectly the One Divine Nature. the only distinction that can be made about any of the three Divine Persons is that they are truly distinct from each other.

that is what JESUS taught. that is what Bahaullah denies.Go back a see what Servant19 just posted to me

 

[eddie_too]

eddie too.
Your behaviour is unCatholic and tarnishes your religion which you profess so strongly.

I will tell you why.

Your last post was made up of accusations against the Baha’is which I asked you to provide evidence of.

NO EVIDENCE WAS GIVEN BY YOU.

Now again in this post, you say that “the bahai say the apostles did not understand what Jesus was teaching them.”

I ask you for one post where the Baha’is stated this? Just one post please!!

Until then I will continually point out any dishonesty and insincerity. Is this what Catholicism teaches you??

Please stop!!

**Thankyou **

first, now a non-Catholic is lecturing a catholic what it is to be catholic. sounds like a bahai at work.

second, how many times have the bahai written that what the apostles received from Jesus and what the apostles handed on to their ordained successors incorrectly states: 1) the doctrine of the Trinity? 2) the Dvinity of Jesus, that Jesus did not possess the Divine Nature completely and from all eternity? 3) that the tomb was not empty and Jesus physical body was not resurrected?

Jesus taught the apostles and the apostle taught their ordained successors and the successors now teach the Church what they were taught by the Jesus and the apostles.

why does Bahaullah teach contrary to what Jesus taught the apostles?. the apostles clearly and firmly the Divinity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity and the physical Resurrection of the Lord.

since the bahai, repeatedly, deny what the apostles were taught and taught the Church I do not think it is inaccurate or unfair to characterize that as the apostles not knowing what Jesus taught. I will not accept that what the apostles taught and what Bahaullah taught are even remotely the same. they are opposits, at least as regards the doctrines of the Incarnation, the Trinity, the Resurrection, the Eucharist, the end of public revelation, and et al.

the one thing we should all be able to agree upon is that Bahaullah knew very little of what the apostles taught and the little he knew he changed in to something completely different from what Jesus taught the apostles.

you cannot logically say that the apostles received Jesus teachings as Jesus meant them to be received and then turn around and say what the apostles received was wrong without the implication that either Jesus was wrong or Jesus was not able to teach the apostles the truth.

it is almost amusing to read the words of the same person saying on one hand that the most essential teachings that the apostle handed on to the Church are wrong and then on the other had saying that indeed the apostles DID UNDERSTAND what Jesus taught them. two non-sequiturs upon which the bahai rest their case. and, that pretty much should rest everyone’s cases since the two concepts are irreconcilable but are ironclad teachings of the bahai.

 

[Michael1978]

So yes, Baha’u’llah uses an iPhone to save mankind. He uses everything, its all because of Him…

.

Is the teaching in Baha’i that Baha’ullah is dead?

 

[tonyfish58]

THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order.

What does that mean ?

Techno2000 - Good Question - The answer is the world today struggling to find the Balance

Servant has given one aspect of the concept of this passage and here is another,

The Balance now is the Goal of World Unity.

We are told that from the Time of the Declaration of the Bab, the Old World Order was Rolled Up and a new one was laid out for us in stead. At this time Judgement Day was instigated, This is the Vibrating Influence, that of Gods Word that Permeated the Wold of Existence.

The equilibrium hath been upset as we struggle to find and Live to this word. One of the balances that has been upset is that of the Influence of the “Divines or Priests of past religions”. Baha’u’llah has given to each man the responsibility of His Faith and as such the roll of these people has been abrogated (A lot more to this subject, this is just to give an idea of the upset to the equilibrium)

That One passage you posted has so many meanings and sundry writings that explain certain aspects of its meaning.

I have always loved that passage you posted, thank you and God Bless - Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

I think we are one one Heart beat apart, we are oh so close!

Lets again Use the Sun, Rays & light as God, Son & Holy Spirit in conjunction with each other

All these three aspects can be seen as God and to this no Blame can be attributed to this.

The Light is of God, the Rays are of God, The Sun is God.

If there was no Sun there are no Rays or Light, if there is a Sun there are Rays and Light.

The Existence of the Sun is not Dependent on the Rays and the Light, But the Rays and the Light are subject to the Assistance of the Sun.

Now try to Look at the Sun, can a person? No, the rays and the light sustain us, but to face the Sun Directly would result in blindness.

Thus we can Know God by Christ and the Holy Spirit, but we can never look upon God Directly. Christ is thus Not God, but is of God and sustains us.

We are faced with this every day of our lives when we meditate upon the Nature of the Sun.

God Bless and Regards Tony

the section above that I bolded is contrary to what we were taught by Jesus.

Jesus taught us that there are three eternal persons, all three uncreated, all three sharing perfectly the One Divine Nature. the only distinction that can be made about any of the three Divine Persons is that they are truly distinct from each other.

that is what JESUS taught. that is what Bahaullah denies.

EddieToo - Yes there is a slight difference in the understanding of what a Christian believes and what a Baha’i Believes.

This is why we suggest to you that Christ did warn us this would be so and there are many Biblical passages in support of the Word as revealed by Baha’u’llah.

It all balances on such a small shift in thinking, that it is uncanny how close is the belief You and I share.

Try to think of it this way - There is God and He did not want to be known - Then there is nothing else!

But God did want to be known and thus His Word the Cause of Creation, us created in His Image and His Revelations to us so we can know Him and Love Him. To know the one and only God is to come to terms with the Oneness of that Word.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus is the One, True God in all His glory and might. There is no other.

It is right to question the knowledge and/or devotion of those who want to change what Jesus taught.