Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

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spiritual body is an oxymoron. the spirit is not physical in any way. the body is completely physical.

some might find the Trinity bewildering (not I), but a “spiritual” body is a meaningless contradiction like a square circle.

what people write and believe is most acceptable when it makes sense and is not an inherent contradiction.

if someone thinks they can explain how a body (which by definition is physical) can be a spirit (which by definition is not physical), I would like to read that explanation.

remember spiritual body is NOT a Christian concept in any way, shape or form. the term physical body may come from some other tradition but it definitely does NOT come from the Christian tradition.
 
by the way, no one has yet ventured to explain what human beings need God to do for them in addition to giving them forgiveness for their sins and the promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ. what more than that is vital to a human being?
 
the bahai beliefs might be more understandable if Bahaullah knew something about Jesus Christ and the teachings of the RCC. but even a brief perusal of the writings of Bahaullah indicate that his knowledge of Jesus was not even at a rudimentary level.

if we are to believe what the bahai post here, Bahaullah was in to the concept of a “spiritual” body. of course that concept is completely irrational and has no real meaning.

and, that is just one example.

the apostles knew the tomb was empty and that the body of Jesus ate with, spoke with them and taught them.
 
Do you know the mind of God? After all, you’re saying revelation ended with Jesus and that the Second Coming is a literal, physical return of Jesus Christ to this Earth. How do you know these things? Somewhere along the line, someone is claiming to know what God has said and done, what is His mind and will.

As for God changing His mind, that is not the case. When Jesus says He is the first and the last, alpha and omega, the only way to God, etc, it is the divine Logos speaking through Christ. This Logos is eternal and without beginning or end. This same divine Logos was present in Baha’u’llah, making Him the return of Christ.

Because when I started on this forum, I was a devout Catholic. I became Baha’i last year. My name doesn’t trouble me, though. Another name for the divine Logos is Christ or the Christ Spirit.

See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_of_God
Your web link is still very vauge. If you were a “devout Catholic” you would have never become a
Baha’i.Also, its the Blessed Mother who is the Mirror of Divinity not Baha’u’llah whose
rotting corpse is still laying on the Earth.
 
only a very ignorant catholic could fall for the bahai theology.

there is so much confusion emanating from Bahaullah, as evidenced by this thread, that it begs for rejection.

think of how the bahai change their teachings and biblical interpretations even as objections to them are raised.

Jesus is the eternal and infinite Logos. Jesus is the Father. Jesus is not God. Jesus is God. from the bahai perspective, Jesus is whatever they want Him to be if it will fool you into following Bahaullah.
 
only a very ignorant catholic could fall for the bahai theology.

there is so much confusion emanating from Bahaullah, as evidenced by this thread, that it begs for rejection.

think of how the bahai change their teachings and biblical interpretations even as objections to them are raised.

Jesus is the eternal and infinite Logos. Jesus is the Father. Jesus is not God. Jesus is God. from the bahai perspective, Jesus is whatever they want Him to be if it will fool you into following Bahaullah.
It must some kind of Nightmare to come up with some kind of creed being that they believe in every Religion known to Man.
 
spiritual body is an oxymoron. the spirit is not physical in any way. the body is completely physical.

some might find the Trinity bewildering (not I), but a “spiritual” body is a meaningless contradiction like a square circle.

what people write and believe is most acceptable when it makes sense and is not an inherent contradiction.

if someone thinks they can explain how a body (which by definition is physical) can be a spirit (which by definition is not physical), I would like to read that explanation.

remember spiritual body is NOT a Christian concept in any way, shape or form. the term physical body may come from some other tradition but it definitely does NOT come from the Christian tradition.
Umm, eddie, this surprises me …
The term “spiritual body” is used over 20 times (off the top of my head) in Pauls Letters.

I think this term is a VERY Christian term indeed

.
 
Your web link is still very vauge. If you were a “devout Catholic” you would have never become a
Baha’i.Also, its the Blessed Mother who is the Mirror of Divinity not Baha’u’llah whose
rotting corpse is still laying on the Earth.
Do me a favor do not ever presume to tell me I was not a devout Catholic. I went to Mass every day, prayed the Rosary, took classes on Catholicism, etc. You do not know my history and do not judge me, ever. I do not take kindly to that kind of inappropriate and uncalled for behavior.
only a very ignorant catholic could fall for the bahai theology.
I was not ignorant. How dare you presume to judge me.
there is so much confusion emanating from Bahaullah, as evidenced by this thread, that it begs for rejection.

think of how the bahai change their teachings and biblical interpretations even as objections to them are raised.

Jesus is the eternal and infinite Logos. Jesus is the Father. Jesus is not God. Jesus is God. from the bahai perspective, Jesus is whatever they want Him to be if it will fool you into following Bahaullah.
There is no deception involved. Any confusion about the Baha’i Faith here on this thread is the result of human error, not the Faith itself.
 
by the way, no one has yet ventured to explain what human beings need God to do for them in addition to giving them forgiveness for their sins and the promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ. what more than that is vital to a human being?
I think God has done, and is doing enough for us, don’t you think?

A selfless approach would be to say “What more can I do for Him?”

The Bahai Faith will teach you that till you embody that principle 🙂

.
 
Do me a favor do not ever presume to tell me I was not a devout Catholic. I went to Mass every day, prayed the Rosary, took classes on Catholicism, etc. You do not know my history and do not judge me, ever. I do not take kindly to that kind of inappropriate and uncalled for behavior.

I was not ignorant. How dare you presume to judge me.

There is no deception involved. Any confusion about the Baha’i Faith here on this thread is the result of human error, not the Faith itself.
Ok, I’m Sorry, but what do you see that is better in the Baha’i Faith.
 
there is more than one meaning in st. paul’s various references to a “spiritual body”.

most certainly, in the sense of the Christians being made new in Jesus Christ, the term applies to the effect that grace has on the life of the believer. where in the “natural” body the believer was subjected to lust, greed, etc. in Jesus Christ, the believer is gifted with a “spiritual” body, i.e. no longer subjected to lust, greed, etc.

in another sense, st. paul refers to the “spiritual body” as in the term we now use more precisely (a “glorified body”).

in another sense, st. paul uses the term in relation to the “mystical body” of Jesus Christ. the existence of all believers in a communion, each with a unique attribute designed for the benefit of the whole, with Jesus as its head. I could understand seeing this as some kind of “spiritual body”, but more precisely it is a metaphor st. paul uses to express a greater divine mystery, i.e. the relationship of all believers to each other and to Jesus.

it is never correct to interpret st. paul to mean that the human body, whether resurrected or not, is ever non-physical. st. paul knew an oxymoron when he saw it and would never fall for such a concept.

so, if by “spiritual body” it is meant a physical body transformed in to a “physical body no longer subjected to the physics of this world”, then I understand what is meant.

however, there is never in the theology of st. paul or the RCC the concept that the human body ceases to exist.

bottom line for a RC, you are not talking about a human being if it does not have a physical body.
 
So, because Jesus is part of the Trinity, it was the Trinity that manifested itself into Baha’u’llah so now we have 4 (the Father,the Son, the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah) is this correct ?
 
Jesus is the Perfect Union of the Divine Nature and human nature.

human nature is perfected in the Incarnation. through the Incarnation we know exactly the relationship with God that He wills for each human being. we also know exactly how a perfect human being lives and dies. after revealing Perfect Human Nature in the Person of Jesus Christ, what else is left to be revealed?

Jesus through His Incarnation reveals to all of us how God intended to relate to us from the beginning of time. this God-designed relationship was altered for the worse by the sin of Adam. through the Life, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus the God-designed relationship lost through the sin of Adam is restored.

as for devout, I questioned the devotion of NO ONE and reject any such accusation.

as for ignorant, I am certain that there is a great deal of information in and about the RCC with which you are not knowledgeable. if you were knowledgeable about all that the RCC teaches, you would either never leave it or you would be completely culpable for rejecting God’s graces and God Himself.

placing Jesus below or at the same level as any other human being is absolute evidence of either ignorance or evil.

following Bahaullah means you reject the Holy Eucharist. that would be the Body and Blood of Christ about which Jesus said unless you eat My Body and Drink My Blood you cannot have Divine Life with you. and, the ultimate consequence of being separated from Divine Life is eternal misery.

however, since you have rejected the RCC and embraced Bahaullah, I will ask you like I asked the rest of the bahai, what in the teachings of Bahaullah (that has not already been revealed in the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ) is essential (that would be something without which I am doomed) to my well-being?

and, a follow-up question, why do you think this (if you come up with something – none of the others have) is essential to my well-being? and then further, essential to my well-being in light of the fact that I have been forgiven for my sins and given the promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ?

you obviously think you found something that you need but Jesus did not supply. what is it?

I mean none of this as a personal attack or insult. i have no idea who you are or the state of your soul. i am totally reacting to the words you write. like i said, i never questioned anyone’s devotion or sincerity. similarly, i question everyone’s knowledge because i know only Jesus had prefect and complete knowledge, the rest of us not so. so when someone bristles about being called ignorant, that pretty much confirms the assessment of the post that brought about my comment. the more knowledgeable a person the far less likely are they to take offense as their ignorance being recognized, because the more knowledgeable a person, the more they know and realize how much they do not know.

recognition of a fact is not an insult or meant to demean.

like i said, i too am ignorant in many areas of knowledge.
 
So, because Jesus is part of the Trinity, it was the Trinity that manifested itself into Baha’u’llah so now we have 4 (the Father,the Son, the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah) is this correct ?
Jesus was not the only manifestation of the Word.
 
Ok, I’m Sorry, but what do you see that is better in the Baha’i Faith.
And I apologize for losing my cool. Anyways, to answer your question I must describe a very personal experience of mine. Last year, I had a series of dreams. A long bearded man kept calling to me while surrounded by the most beautiful light I have ever seen. He told me to follow Him now, for He was the return of Jesus Christ. Each time I woke up, I had no idea what this dream meant. My priest didn’t, either. Finally, after about a week of these dreams I woke up with a word on my lips, “Baha’i.” I had never heard of the Baha’i before but I immediately searched the web. I wasn’t too sure of the spelling but God guided me to the Wikipedia page on the Baha’i Faith. I read through it and seemed like a most wonderful discovery but I was still unsure. Then I clicked on the link for the article on Baha’u’llah. In that page, I saw a photograph of Baha’u’llah. He looked exactly like the man in my dreams. I started crying because I had discovered something so beautiful, so meaningful and it was a Person. I found my way to the USA Baha’i website and made my declaration. As for specifics that I see as advantages, I come to see the merit of the Baha’i explanation of the Trinity, the Baha’i idea of successive messengers of God, the unity of the human race, the unity of religion, the unity of God, and so much more to be advantages. I mean this with absolute respect for my former faith tradition, Catholicism. Anyways, I know this probably confused you more than it explained anything but that’s my story. God bless.
 
Jesus is the Perfect Union of the Divine Nature and human nature.

human nature is perfected in the Incarnation. through the Incarnation we know exactly the relationship with God that He wills for each human being. we also know exactly how a perfect human being lives and dies. after revealing Perfect Human Nature in the Person of Jesus Christ, what else is left to be revealed?

Jesus through His Incarnation reveals to all of us how God intended to relate to us from the beginning of time. this God-designed relationship was altered for the worse by the sin of Adam. through the Life, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus the God-designed relationship lost through the sin of Adam is restored.

as for devout, I questioned the devotion of NO ONE and reject any such accusation.

as for ignorant, I am certain that there is a great deal of information in and about the RCC with which you are not knowledgeable. if you were knowledgeable about all that the RCC teaches, you would either never leave it or you would be completely culpable for rejecting God’s graces and God Himself.

placing Jesus below or at the same level as any other human being is absolute evidence of either ignorance or evil.

following Bahaullah means you reject the Holy Eucharist. that would be the Body and Blood of Christ about which Jesus said unless you eat My Body and Drink My Blood you cannot have Divine Life with you. and, the ultimate consequence of being separated from Divine Life is eternal misery.

however, since you have rejected the RCC and embraced Bahaullah, I will ask you like I asked the rest of the bahai, what in the teachings of Bahaullah (that has not already been revealed in the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ) is essential (that would be something without which I am doomed) to my well-being?

and, a follow-up question, why do you think this (if you come up with something – none of the others have) is essential to my well-being? and then further, essential to my well-being in light of the fact that I have been forgiven for my sins and given the promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ?

you obviously think you found something that you need but Jesus did not supply. what is it?

I mean none of this as a personal attack or insult. i have no idea who you are or the state of your soul. i am totally reacting to the words you write. like i said, i never questioned anyone’s devotion or sincerity. similarly, i question everyone’s knowledge because i know only Jesus had prefect and complete knowledge, the rest of us not so. so when someone bristles about being called ignorant, that pretty much confirms the assessment of the post that brought about my comment. the more knowledgeable a person the far less likely are they to take offense as their ignorance being recognized, because the more knowledgeable a person, the more they know and realize how much they do not know.

recognition of a fact is not an insult or meant to demean.

like i said, i too am ignorant in many areas of knowledge.
This was a long ramble. Until you stop calling me ignorant, I refuse to answer your questions. Good day, sir.
 
So, because Jesus is part of the Trinity, it was the Trinity that manifested itself into Baha’u’llah so now we have 4 (the Father,the Son, the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah) is this correct ?
Not to my knowledge. As I understand, and again I am quite fallible, the trinity as understood by Baha’is consists of God, the current manifestation, and the Holy Spirit. I don’t think a Manifestation is a permanent member of the trinity. I could be quite wrong, however.
 
Christ is the way,

how do you know your dream came from almighty God?

who is the prince of this world and what are his (its) powers in this world?

would the prince of this world like to remove you from the protection of Jesus Christ and all His saints and angels?

also, sorry about my reaction to your comment about being devout. i misread and thought it was directed at me. i would never question your own assessment of your relationship to the RCC. your prior devotion to the RCC only makes your departure from it more tragic.

but, i am still curious about what you thought or think remains to be revealed after the Life, Death and Resurrection of the Perfect Man, the Incarnate Word.

such a concept truly baffles me and i am sincere in wanting to know what it is that Bahaullah revealed (again something not already revealed by Jesus) that is essential to my well-being. even something that would enhance my well-being would be eventful for me, but i would really like to stick with the word essential and i define that word to mean something without which my well-being would be lost. and, just in case, by well-being, i mean by eternal soul.

here i would like to expound, if something is not essential to my salvation and eternal happiness, i would rather not waste a lot of time on or with it.
 
Mirzā Ghulām Ahmad, died 1908:
un Myung Moon, died 2012:
Are these men not also manifestations of God?
Baha’u’llah asserts: “Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor.”

Thus if Baha’u’llah’s Revelation is direct from God, then all who came after Him who might have made a similar claim would surely have to be imposters. That settles that particular question.

How do we know, however, that Baha’u’llah isn’t an imposter Himself?

As you know, Jesus is recorded as having said: “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”

However, He then goes on to set down the standard of proof whereby we can know a true Prophet as follows:

“Ye shall know them by their fruits…every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.”

By fruit, it’s fairly evident that He means the teachings of the Prophet.

The question is then, are the teachings of Baha’u’llah good or not?

A careful examination of His writings quickly makes it clear that the teachings of Baha’u’llah are not just good but excellent and unmatched by anyone of His time. Don’t take it from me, though. Consider what renowned orientalist of Cambridge University, Professor Edward Gramville Browne, who was not himself a Baha’i, and who, almost uniquely for a Westerner, attained the presence of Baha’u’llah, had this to say about Him:

“The face of him on whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read ones very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow; while the deep lines on the forehead and face implied an age which the jet-black hair and beard flowing down in indistinguishable luxuriance almost to the waist seemed to belie. No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!”

“A mild dignified voice bade me be seated, and then continued: ‘Praise be to God that thou hast attained!.. Thou hast come to see a prisoner and an exile… We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations; yet they deem us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled – what harm is there in this?.. Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come… Do not you in Europe need this also? Is notthis that which Christ foretold?.. Yet do we see your
kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely onmeans for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind…These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family… Let not aman glory in this, that he loves his country; let him ratherglory in this, that he loves his kind…’”
(
“Such, as far as I can recall them, were the words which, besides many others, I heard from Beha.[1] Let those who read them consider well with themselves whether such doctrines merit death and bonds, and whether the world is more likely to gain or lose by their diffusion.(13)
1 Bahá’u’lláh.”

And after the sincere seeker of the truth makes a careful examination of the teachings of Baha’u’llah, it sooner or later becomes evident that His teachings are indeed all “good fruit, and that He is thus a true Manifestation of God.
 
i thought the bahai rejected the RCC doctrine of the Trinity. you make it sound like they hold the same truth as regards the Godhead?

this is what i mean by confusion coming from Bahaullah.

it is pretty easy for the curious to know where the RCC stands on the Divine Mysteries. i do not find the bahai faith to be that clear.
 
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