Believing in the True Jesus vs Baha'u'llah

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You are wrong, and the Church that canonized the Bible say’s you’re wrong. You’re entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
The Bible is not Wrong, this passage plain to see

1 John 4:1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;…

There are many others

God Bless and regards Tony
 
The Bible is not Wrong, this passage plain to see

1 John 4:1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;…

There are many others

God Bless and regards Tony
Further in the Chapter:
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
St. John is asking you whether you listen to the Church. Do you? Do you accept the Church’s teachings? If not, then you are listening to the spirit of falsehood. Again, tony, bless you in your spiritual journey. I hope you find the truth. However, it is illogical for you to use the Bible, which was canonized by the Church, to try and render some reference to Bahá’u’lláh.
 
My friend Dear Servant does great justice to these questions as I am a person of fewer words 😉

My reflection upon this passage is;

All that we know of God, all that we attribute to Him, all our prayers to Him are but to the Manifestations of His Name, the reflections of His Attributes. We have no direct connection to God, God does not become part of existence as we know it. Thus to see God we have to Accept and Know all of the Divine Reflections. (ie Moses, Christ, Muhammad, The Bab and Baha’u’llah)

It is reflected in this passage, there are quite a few different interpretations, but they all same the same

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (New International Version)

God Bless and Regards Tony
All that is mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawning-places of God signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the conditions of existence.

What does… Dawning-places of God; mean ?
 
LOL

This is comedy at its best …and I’m not criticising eddie too the person/soul, just giggling at his posts!

He posts this:
essentially, the only doctrinal teachings shared by the RCC and the bahai religion is the belief that there is One Supreme Being who created all things .
…and then the VERY NEXT POST, gives us this nugget of comedy:
students of history, theology and sacred scripture would be amazed by how much of Bahaullah’s teachings were borrowed from Jesus Christ.
God bless you brother.

🙂

.
 
This statement “so there will be no further Revelation after him” is the mistake that all religions of the past have made. This statement prevents the Search for the “True Prophet”. A search the Bible and Koran says must happen.
Dear Tony,
If you think God’s religions make mistakes you have a major problem.

Christians state there are no Prophets after Jesus although the Bible does not state this. The same cannot be said about Islam. The Quran and Islamic narrations explicitly state that Muhammad is the last Prophet and your argument falls apart when applied to Islam.
 
You have a nasty habit of putting words in my mouth. It is quite unbecoming. Stop it.
Then please clarify.

What do you mean by “To each his own”?

Are you of the position that we can believe whatever we want, as long as it makes us happy?

Or are you of the position that there are some beliefs that are wrong?
 
Further in the Chapter:

St. John is asking you whether you listen to the Church. Do you? Do you accept the Church’s teachings? If not, then you are listening to the spirit of falsehood. Again, tony, bless you in your spiritual journey. I hope you find the truth. However, it is illogical for you to use the Bible, which was canonized by the Church, to try and render some reference to Bahá’u’lláh.
Hi Michael, might I ask you what happens to the Church’s teachings when Jesus returns?

Will the Sacraments, such as the Eucharist still apply?

.
 
Christians state there are no Prophets after Jesus although the Bible does not state this.
Yes–this is a good point for you to bring up with BibleAlone Advocates.

Catholicism, however, is not a religion of the book. We do not glean all of our doctrines from a book, no matter how holy.

Our doctrines come from Christ, through His Apostles, to the Church.
 
Dear Tony,
If you think God’s religions make mistakes you have a major problem.

Christians state there are no Prophets after Jesus although the Bible does not state this. The same cannot be said about Islam. The Quran and Islamic narrations explicitly state that Muhammad is the last Prophet and your argument falls apart when applied to Islam.
Hi peace,

Bahai teaching is that the religions we see in the world today are not the embodiment of the true religion revealed by its Founders. “Religions” make mistakes. The “Prophets” do not 🙂

The term “Seal of the Prophets” is again full of meaning and open to interpretation. Islam believes in the Return of Jesus Christ too, so evidently, another Holy One must walk on the earth again.

I hope and pray you had a spirit filled Day of Ashura, dear friend 🙂

.
 
Yes–this is a good point for you to bring up with BibleAlone Advocates.

Catholicism, however, is not a religion of the book. We do not glean all of our doctrines from a book, no matter how holy.

Our doctrines come from Christ, through His Apostles, to the Church.
I think the problem arises when the doctrines of the Church contradict the words spoken by the very first Christians (which happen to be recorded in the Book)

Unless you can show me the Catechism of the CC dated 55AD?

.
 
LOL
This is comedy at its best …and I’m not criticising eddie too the person/soul, just giggling at his posts!

He posts this:

…and then the VERY NEXT POST, gives us this nugget of comedy:

God bless you brother.

🙂
.
Dear Servant,
eddie is not infallible and he can make mistakes. If you think those two contradictory posts from a fallible human amount to a comedy I don’t know what you would call this:

1-Baha’u’llah telling the world that he has removed all cause of shunning then goes about contradicting himself and telling his followers to Shun those who deny him:

“Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.” Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 95

“Shun any man in whom you perceive enmity for this Servant, though he may appear in the garb of piety of the former and later people, or may arise to the worship of the two worlds.” Baha’i World Faith—Selected Writings of Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha (Abdu’l-Baha’s Section Only), p. 431.

2-Abdu’l-Baha telling us that the punishment of prison, shunning, and capital is bad and has a demoralizing effect while Baha’u’llah has the same punishment in his book of laws:

“the community is always thinking of enforcing the penal laws, and of preparing means of punishment, instruments of death and chastisement, places for imprisonment and banishment; and they expect crimes to be committed. This has a demoralizing effect.” Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 272.

Exile and imprisonment are decreed for the thief, and, on the third offence, place ye a mark upon his brow so that, thus identified, he may not be accepted in the cities of God and His countries.” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, pp. 35–36

“Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death. Take ye hold of the precepts of God with all your strength and power, and abandon the ways of the ignorant. Should ye condemn the arsonist and the murderer to** life imprisonment**, it would be permissible according to the provisions of the Book. He, verily, hath power to ordain whatsoever He pleaseth,” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, p. 203.

3-Baha’u’llah claiming that whatever book he needs appears before his face while he confesses elsewhere that he had to search for a book that he needed:

“Whenever We desire to quote the sayings of the learned and of the wise, presently there will appear before the face of thy Lord in the form of a tablet all that which hath appeared in the world and is revealed in the Holy Books and Scriptures,” Tablets of Baha’u’llah Revealed After the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 149.

“As We had frequently heard about him, We purposed to read some of his works. Although We never felt disposed to peruse other peoples’ writings, yet as some had questioned Us concerning him, We felt it necessary to refer to his books, in order that We might answer Our questioners with knowledge and understanding. His works, in the Arabic tongue, were, however, not available, . . . We sent for the book, and kept it with Us a few days. It was probably referred to twice,” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 184–186.

4-Baha’u’llah falsely stating that two prophets were contemporary with two philosophers, while in reality they lived centuries apart:

“Empedocles, who distinguished himself in philosophy, was a contemporary of David, while Pythagoras lived in the days of Solomon, son of David, and acquired Wisdom from the treasury of prophethood.” Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah Revealed After the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 145
 
I think the problem arises when the doctrines of the Church contradict the words spoken by the very first Christians (which happen to be recorded in the Book)

Unless you can show me the Catechism of the CC dated 55AD?

.
The Magisterium or Teaching Authority of the Church

by Fr. William G. Most

By the Magisterium we mean the teaching office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops. Christ promised to protect the teaching of the Church : “He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me” (Luke 10. 16). Now of course the promise of Christ cannot fail: hence when the Church presents some doctrine as definitive or final, it comes under this protection, it cannot be in error; in other words, it is infallible. This is true even if the Church does not use the solemn ceremony of definition. The day to day teaching of the Church throughout the world, when the Bishops are in union with each other and with the Pope, and present something as definitive, this is infallible. (Vatican II, Lumen gentium # 25). It was precisely by the use of that authority that Vatican I was able to define that the Pope alone, when speaking as such and making things definitive, is also infallible. Of course this infallibility covers also teaching on what morality requires, for that is needed for salvation.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/chura4.htm

“He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects you rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me” (Luke 10. 16).
 
Hi peace,

Bahai teaching is that the religions we see in the world today are not the embodiment of the true religion revealed by its Founders. “Religions” make mistakes. The “Prophets” do not 🙂

The term “Seal of the Prophets” is again full of meaning and open to interpretation. Islam believes in the Return of Jesus Christ too, so evidently, another Holy One must walk on the earth again.

.
Dear Servant,

1-It is the People that make mistakes not the divine religions. The religions are from God and free from mistakes. Tony stated that ‘religions’ make mistakes not ‘people’.

2-The meaning of the “Seal of the Prophets” is very clear. There are multiple Islamic narrations from the Prophet and Imams (the authorized interpreters of the Quran) that have explicitly interpreted it to mean MUHAMMAD IS THE LAST PROPHET AND THERE WILL BE NO NEW PROPHETS AFTER HIM. Claiming that the verse is open to interpretation, or has a metaphorical meaning, or shouldn’t be looked upon literally (the typical Baha’i excuses) will not change the facts.

And by the way, Jesus is not a new Prophet after Muhammad (pretty obvious).
 
Dear Servant,
eddie is not infallible and he can make mistakes. If you think those two contradictory posts from a fallible human amount to a comedy I don’t know what you would call this:

1-Baha’u’llah telling the world that he has removed all cause of shunning then goes about contradicting himself and telling his followers to Shun those who deny him:

“Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.” Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 95

“Shun any man in whom you perceive enmity for this Servant, though he may appear in the garb of piety of the former and later people, or may arise to the worship of the two worlds.” Baha’i World Faith—Selected Writings of Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha (Abdu’l-Baha’s Section Only), p. 431.

2-Abdu’l-Baha telling us that the punishment of prison, shunning, and capital is bad and has a demoralizing effect while Baha’u’llah has the same punishment in his book of laws:

“the community is always thinking of enforcing the penal laws, and of preparing means of punishment, instruments of death and chastisement, places for imprisonment and banishment; and they expect crimes to be committed. This has a demoralizing effect.” Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 272.

Exile and imprisonment are decreed for the thief, and, on the third offence, place ye a mark upon his brow so that, thus identified, he may not be accepted in the cities of God and His countries.” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, pp. 35–36

“Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death. Take ye hold of the precepts of God with all your strength and power, and abandon the ways of the ignorant. Should ye condemn the arsonist and the murderer to** life imprisonment**, it would be permissible according to the provisions of the Book. He, verily, hath power to ordain whatsoever He pleaseth,” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, p. 203.

3-Baha’u’llah claiming that whatever book he needs appears before his face while he confesses elsewhere that he had to search for a book that he needed:

“Whenever We desire to quote the sayings of the learned and of the wise, presently there will appear before the face of thy Lord in the form of a tablet all that which hath appeared in the world and is revealed in the Holy Books and Scriptures,” Tablets of Baha’u’llah Revealed After the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 149.

“As We had frequently heard about him, We purposed to read some of his works. Although We never felt disposed to peruse other peoples’ writings, yet as some had questioned Us concerning him, We felt it necessary to refer to his books, in order that We might answer Our questioners with knowledge and understanding. His works, in the Arabic tongue, were, however, not available, . . . We sent for the book, and kept it with Us a few days. It was probably referred to twice,” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 184–186.

4-Baha’u’llah falsely stating that two prophets were contemporary with two philosophers, while in reality they lived centuries apart:

“Empedocles, who distinguished himself in philosophy, was a contemporary of David, while Pythagoras lived in the days of Solomon, son of David, and acquired Wisdom from the treasury of prophethood.” Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah Revealed After the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 145
Hi peace, I think a lot of clarification is required for you in relation to these passages. I’m short on time right now but I can address them for you further if you need it, later today 🙂

But please also bear in mind that contradictions occur all the time in Revelation. “The Father and I are one” and then “the Father is greater than I”

There are several factors that come into play but briefly, a human being should not shun anyone for we are prone to injustice, but it is within the right of God to shun any one of His servants, He is the All-Just. In the Bible Jesus says that He is All-Forgiving but He will never forgive anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit.

These are matters of justice.

In regards to the prisons etc, Abdul-Baha was giving an overview of the current “mentality” of society, not that having places for incarceration are bad things for society to do, the Bahai Faith fully endorses justice within society. It’s just that currently the level of maturity of society is not at the level where true justice can be meted out. It is for this reason that the Bahai Laws for theft etc are not applicable to anyone today. The Universal House of Justice will make those decisions in the future 🙂

Finally, it’s not “any book”, it specifies only those from the learned and the wise and the Holy Books…

Hope this helps

🙂

.
 
“Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn; should anyone deliberately take another’s life, him also shall ye put to death. Take ye hold of the precepts of God with all your strength and power, and abandon the ways of the ignorant. Should ye condemn the arsonist and the murderer to life imprisonment, it would be permissible according to the provisions of the Book. He, verily, hath power to ordain whatsoever He pleaseth,” Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas, p. 203.

So I Guess The Baha’u’llah didn’t take too kindly to arson:D
 
Hi Michael, might I ask you what happens to the Church’s teachings when Jesus returns?

Will the Sacraments, such as the Eucharist still apply?

.
Yes, in the same that it applied at the last Supper.
 
Then please clarify.

What do you mean by “To each his own”?

Are you of the position that we can believe whatever we want, as long as it makes us happy?

Or are you of the position that there are some beliefs that are wrong?
Why should I clarify for you? If you want to take my words way too literally, then so be it. You have failed to name a teaching of the Baha’i Faith that has given harmful outcomes, though asked before for one.
 
So let me get this right, the Baha’i religion rejects Reincarnation, but Buddhism is part of
the Baha’i faith.:hmmm:
 
Why should I clarify for you? If you want to take my words way too literally, then so be it. You have failed to name a teaching of the Baha’i Faith that has given harmful outcomes, though asked before for one.
If you refuse to clarify what you meant exactly, then I have no choice but to use my own discernment to interpret what you meant.

And either you mean: anyone can believe anything…and it’s all copacetic with you…which allows EVIL to triumph while you sit and shrug, “To each his own”…

OR

You mean: it’s all fine, as long as it coincides with what you believe is good…

which is supremely solipsistic.

Either way, “To each his own” is an inutile paradigm for any rational person to espouse.
Like I said, to each his own.
 
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