Belleville Diocesan priests ask Bp. Braxton to resign

[GregoryPalamas]

It is very difficult to determine the reasons for Bishop George’s actions from that article.

1. Perhaps this is what is done prior to every appointment.
2. Perhaps Bishop George was worried about the Good Ol’ Boys of Southern Illinois.
3. Perhaps he wanted to give Bishop Braxton a chance to see what he was about to have to confront.

Who knows?

CDL

 

[IronHammer]

Well…of COURSE they were told to meet with the bishop and share their concerns…that’s usually the FIRST thing someone asks when there is a dispute. “Well, have you spoken to Bishop Braxton?” was likely the first question from both the Cardinal and the Archbishop Nuncio…its the grown up way to handle problems (instead of, oh I dunno, for example, crying to the press with public letters…)

Yes, that makes more sense. I think I was reading too much into the article. I think the opposing priests were attempting to position the Cardinal and the nuncio as being ‘on their side’ when, in fact, they recommended they take their issues to Bishop Braxton himself.

 

[qui_est_ce]

This was just posted today

bnd.com/homepage/story/290879.html

Apparently, it is a sort of response from the opposing side. They allege that they were prompted to meet with the Bishop prior to his installment ceremony by none other than Cardinal Francis George of Chicago and the U.S. Papal Nuncio Archbishop Gabriel Montalvo. These are very surprising and interesting assertions.

Thanks for the link. This is very interesting. It’s starting to make sense. If Braxton perceives reminders of past indiscretions from the priests at the 2005 meeting as black mail, why have these priests not posted these allegations? Where’s the blackmail?

There are some Archbishop Burke supporters who worked with Braxton who are PRIVATELY extremely critical of Braxton. Looks like I’ll have to reverse my position that the money was just a strawman. It appears the money was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Braxton knew the money was in an earmarked fund, and would not return it until there was a public outcry. Talk about causing scandal.

 

[mikew262]

Thanks for the link. This is very interesting. It’s starting to make sense. If Braxton perceives reminders of past indiscretions from the priests at the 2005 meeting as black mail, why have these priests not posted these allegations? Where’s the blackmail?

There are some Archbishop Burke supporters who worked with Braxton who are PRIVATELY extremely critical of Braxton. Looks like I’ll have to reverse my position that the money was just a strawman. It appears the money was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Braxton knew the money was in an earmarked fund, and would not return it until there was a public outcry. Talk about causing scandal.

Well what do you know, maybe there is something to what the priests are saying. Sorry for the hint of sarcasm, but I found it astounding that most on here feel the priests are automatically the bad guys and Bishop Braxton is the poor victim. Just keep an open mind folks, thats all I’m asking. If it turns that the Bishop is indeed getting a raw deal, I’ll be the first to say so.

 

[dmelosi]

Well what do you know, maybe there is something to what the priests are saying. Sorry for the hint of sarcasm, but I found it astounding that most on here feel the priests are automatically the bad guys and Bishop Braxton is the poor victim. Just keep an open mind folks, thats all I’m asking. If it turns that the Bishop is indeed getting a raw deal, I’ll be the first to say so.

Mike, that is very much an overstatement, there has not been one post that I remember that anyone automatically assumed the priests were bad guys. A real exageration!

I do tend to believe the bishop because he is trying to clean up the many liturgical abuses from the many liberal priests. And I am not assuming anything, I know and have experienced this first hand.

 

[mikew262]

Mike, that is very much an overstatement, there has not been one post that I remember that anyone automatically assumed the priests were bad guys. A real exageration!

I do tend to believe the bishop because he is trying to clean up the many liturgical abuses from the many liberal priests. And I am not assuming anything, I know and have experienced this first hand.

Oh wow! You need to review this thread, the majority of posters have been in support of the Bishop and against the priests. As far as you as experiencing this first hand, so have I. I’ve been in this diocese for many years. I suppose we may have different opinions on what constitutes liturgical abuse.

 

[dmelosi]

Oh wow! You need to review this thread, the majority of posters have been in support of the Bishop and against the priests. As far as you as experiencing this first hand, so have I. I’ve been in this diocese for many years. I suppose we may have different opinions on what constitutes liturgical abuse.

Mike, your replies show that you are against the bishop…but come on, don’t twist things.
I quote you …you said “but I found it astounding that most on here feel the priests are automatically the bad guys and Bishop Braxton is the poor victim.” Your words…
I never even came close to saying anything at all about who the majority of the posters favored. That you are twisting and it shows your bias.
I said…that noone automatically assumed the priests were bad guys.

I am just wondering how and why you twisted that?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Mike, that is very much an overstatement, there has not been one post that I remember that anyone automatically assumed the priests were bad guys. A real exageration!

I do tend to believe the bishop because he is trying to clean up the many liturgical abuses from the many liberal priests. And I am not assuming anything, I know and have experienced this first hand.

As an orthodox RC, I can’t stand the gender neutral language creeping into the liturgy. Every morning a nun (you’d never guess) substitutes God for he and the for his at the Preparation. It drives me crazy. It is a quiet mass, so every utterence is amplified. She bows instead of genuflecting before seating herself. Yet I saw her at the gym the other night! Our priest hates it too. He emphasizes HE and HIS and FATHER! I love it. But it appears Braxton’s problem is bigger than this. I still want to know what the blackmail is all about. Braxton said it in his letter. If Braxton is honest, I could care less, but somebody is hiding something. Even a bishop that addresses liturgical abuse.

 

[cspb56]

I know a couple of the bishops classmates. Years ago they told me that from the beginning of his seminary days he was aloof and arrogant. He was not well liked by his classmates or a lot of people in Chicago. So all this has nothing to do with him being orthodox and all to do with him personally.

 

[dmelosi]

I know a couple of the bishops classmates. Years ago they told me that from the beginning of his seminary days he was aloof and arrogant. He was not well liked by his classmates or a lot of people in Chicago. So all this has nothing to do with him being orthodox and all to do with him personally.

Why are you leaving out all of the first hand experiences of the liturgical abuses and the bishop trying to straighten that out?

The Belleville diocese is full of liberal priests.

Your comment that it only has to do with him personally is way out there.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I know a couple of the bishops classmates. Years ago they told me that from the beginning of his seminary days he was aloof and arrogant. He was not well liked by his classmates or a lot of people in Chicago. So all this has nothing to do with him being orthodox and all to do with him personally.

So what? I desire truth and holiness from my bishop. Not lovey dovey.

CDL

 

[Nordar]

I know a couple of the bishops classmates. Years ago they told me that from the beginning of his seminary days he was aloof and arrogant. He was not well liked by his classmates or a lot of people in Chicago. So all this has nothing to do with him being orthodox and all to do with him personally.

What does his personality have to do with Liturgical abuses?
I find you description of him rather suspect. If it was the beginning of his seminary days how could lots of people in Chicago dislike him? How many people could have known him when he was just beginning seminary?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What does his personality have to do with Liturgical abuses?
I find you description of him rather suspect. If it was the beginning of his seminary days how could lots of people in Chicago dislike him? How many people could have known him when he was just beginning seminary?

You know, when I first went to seminary it was at the height of the anti-war movement during which many candidates were there by their own testimony to avoid the draft. I wore a flat top then and many of the long haired fellow students did not like me because of it. Of course that fact alone destroyed any credibility I had for the rest of my life. When I insisted that Christ is in truth God I was wrong and should have taken the criticism of my stance to heart. What a crock!!

CDL

 

[Nordar]

You know, when I first went to seminary it was at the height of the anti-war movement during which many candidates were there by their own testimony to avoid the draft. I wore a flat top then and many of the long haired fellow students did not like me because of it. Of course that fact alone destroyed any credibility I had for the rest of my life. When I insisted that Christ is in truth God I was wrong and should have taken the criticism of my stance to heart. What a crock!!

CDL

Right, I just think it is rather pathetic to sum up Bishop Braxton’s whole priesthood because of what some classmates of his in the beginning of seminary have to say!

 

[qui_est_ce]

Right, I just think it is rather pathetic to sum up Bishop Braxton’s whole priesthood because of what some classmates of his in the beginning of seminary have to say!

While I agree with your point, there is evidence that Braxton himself may be guilty of abuses, and not innocently.

 

[mikew262]

The Belleville diocese is full of liberal priests.

You keep saying this, but offer no specifics.

 

[mikew262]

So what? I desire truth and holiness from my bishop. Not lovey dovey.

CDL

This could be part of the problem here. Are we getting truth from this Bishop? He holds secret meetings, doesn’t communicate with his priests (or anybody else), misspends Church funds, etc. Get the picture?

 

[mikew262]

Right, I just think it is rather pathetic to sum up Bishop Braxton’s whole priesthood because of what some classmates of his in the beginning of seminary have to say!

It’s a little more involved than just that.

 

[dmelosi]

This could be part of the problem here. Are we getting truth from this Bishop? He holds secret meetings, doesn’t communicate with his priests (or anybody else), misspends Church funds, etc. Get the picture?

You keep saying this but offer no specifics.

 

[mikew262]

You keep saying this but offer no specifics.

Huh? I just did mention them and it’s been reported several times in the press. However, saying we are full of liberal priests doesn’t tell anybody anything. Its just your opinion.