Belleville Diocesan priests ask Bp. Braxton to resign

[GregoryPalamas]

Huh? I just did mention them and it’s been reported several times in the press.

One instance of using a small amount of funds to buy furniture and vestments is not a plural. Since he paid back the money there is no foul at all. So what are you talking about?

CDL

 

[dmelosi]

Huh? I just did mention them and it’s been reported several times in the press. However, saying we are full of liberal priests doesn’t tell anybody anything. Its just your opinion.

One reason I call a priest liberal is when they try to change the mass…the litugical abuses.

You keep talking about the abuse of funds…but ignore the fact that at the time, the people that made it seem a scandal were aware of it as stated in the letter the bishop wrote at that very time.

What in the world is a secret meeting? Should the bishop have all his meetings in publice?

 

[dmelosi]

One instance of using a small amount of funds to buy furniture and vestments is not a plural. Since he paid back the money there is no foul at all. So what are you talking about?

CDL

I add to this that at the time the bishop decided to use the funds, there was a disagreement on where the funds should come from and he stated that if he was wrong at that time, he would replace them. This was portrayed as if a misappropriation of funds was suddenly uncovered.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I add to this that at the time the bishop decided to use the funds, there was a disagreement on where the funds should come from and he stated that if he was wrong at that time, he would replace them. This was portrayed as if a misappropriation of funds was suddenly uncovered.

Very true. I don’t know this Godly bishop. I don’t even know if I ever heard of him prior to this thread. But he has quickly become an honored Godly bishop in my eyes. Everything I’ve read in this thread points to him as one who is suffering for the name of Christ and makes his accusers out to be niggling pharisees or worse. I did send him a note of support on the Diocesan website. I hope all Godly people here will do the same.

CDL

 

[qui_est_ce]

One instance of using a small amount of funds to buy furniture and vestments is not a plural. Since he paid back the money there is no foul at all. So what are you talking about?

CDL

So it’s okay to steal, but if you pay back the funds if you get caught it’s not a scandal? As bishop, he knew and was told that these were restricted funds, was told they were by the finance office but did it anyway. It was AFTER the story was published on the front page of the Post-Dispatch that he started looking for a donor to replace the money. His obvious refusal to listen to his Financial office makes me wonder if this is not the only “misappropriation.”

When I donate to a fund, like for Bethlehen on Good Friday, I don’t expect that money to go to vestments.

At St. Stan’s, one of the issues is they refused to be financially audited by the Archdiocese. As a member of a parish that was FINALLY audited after the pastor retired, (at the time Archbishop Burke was installed). I was horrified at the “benign” misuse of funds. Health Insurance, Social Security, 401K, and other withholdings were withheld, but not desposited. The Archdiocese of St. Louis had to loan us $50,000.00 to cover this “benign” misjudgement. Thank God Archbishop Burke came in and made sure all parishes conform to Archdiocesan guidelines for financial reporting.

Braxton should hold himself to the same standard.

 

[dmelosi]

So it’s okay to steal, but if you pay back the funds if you get caught it’s not a scandal? As bishop, he knew and was told that these were restricted funds, was told they were by the finance office but did it anyway. It was AFTER the story was published on the front page of the Post-Dispatch that he started looking for a donor to replace the money. His obvious refusal to listen to his Financial office makes me wonder if this is not the only “misappropriation.”

When I donate to a fund, like for Bethlehen on Good Friday, I don’t expect that money to go to vestments.

At St. Stan’s, one of the issues is they refused to be financially audited by the Archdiocese. As a member of a parish that was FINALLY audited after the pastor retired, (at the time Archbishop Burke was installed). I was horrified at the “benign” misuse of funds. Health Insurance, Social Security, 401K, and other withholdings were withheld, but not desposited. The Archdiocese of St. Louis had to loan us $50,000.00 to cover this “benign” misjudgement. Thank God Archbishop Burke came in and made sure all parishes conform to Archdiocesan guidelines for financial reporting.

Braxton should hold himself to the same standard.

Please dont ignore the fact that there was a disagreement at the time and nothing having to do with the money was hidden, but only portrayed to be hidden or suddenly discovered…by the priests.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Please dont ignore the fact that there was a disagreement at the time and nothing having to do with the money was hidden, but only portrayed to be hidden or suddenly discovered…by the priests.

The disagreement was the the bishop took the funds in spite of being told by the Office of Finance that they were restricted. I never got the impression that it was suddenly discovered by the priests to make their point. I can’t find the original article in the Post, of how the discovery was made.

I don’t have a problem with the bishop restoring orthodoxy. I admire him for that.

 

[Eschato]

I think it was said of Luther by Charles the V. “It is preposterous to imagine that one man could be right and over a thousand years of Christianity be wrong.”

CDL

Hahaha… that hurts Luther’s position now doesn’t it?

 

[Eschato]

Here is a quote from Bishop Braxton that I thought I would draw to your attention. I came across it in ALL’s Celebrate Life magazine this week.

No matter how often a a bishop or priest repeats the teaching of the Church regarding procured abortion, if he stands by and does nothing to discipline a Catholic who publicly supports legislation permitting the gravest of injustices and, at the same time, presents himself to recieve holy communion, then his teachings ring hollow. To remain silent is to permit serious confusion regarding a fundamental truth of moral law.

 

[dmelosi]

The disagreement was the the bishop took the funds in spite of being told by the Office of Finance that they were restricted. I never got the impression that it was suddenly discovered by the priests to make their point. I can’t find the original article in the Post, of how the discovery was made.

I don’t have a problem with the bishop restoring orthodoxy. I admire him for that.

Yes, it was a disagreement, but that is a lot different than stealing as you indicated in an earlier post.

The way it came out in the media was that it was an attempt to hide it when in fact there never was that attempt.

 

[Nordar]

It’s a little more involved than just that.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

The Bishop may or may not have done the things he is accused of doing, That still is no reason to judge a man’s life or career on what a few say he was like at the beginning of Seminary.

 

[Nordar]

Very true. I don’t know this Godly bishop. I don’t even know if I ever heard of him prior to this thread. But he has quickly become an honored Godly bishop in my eyes. Everything I’ve read in this thread points to him as one who is suffering for the name of Christ and makes his accusers out to be niggling pharisees or worse. I did send him a note of support on the Diocesan website. I hope all Godly people here will do the same.

CDL

Agreed:thumbsup:

 

[Engineer1]

So it’s okay to steal, but if you pay back the funds if you get caught it’s not a scandal? As bishop, he knew and was told that these were restricted funds, was told they were by the finance office but did it anyway. It was AFTER the story was published on the front page of the Post-Dispatch that he started looking for a donor to replace the money. His obvious refusal to listen to his Financial office makes me wonder if this is not the only “misappropriation.”

When I donate to a fund, like for Bethlehen on Good Friday, I don’t expect that money to go to vestments.

At St. Stan’s, one of the issues is they refused to be financially audited by the Archdiocese. As a member of a parish that was FINALLY audited after the pastor retired, (at the time Archbishop Burke was installed). I was horrified at the “benign” misuse of funds. Health Insurance, Social Security, 401K, and other withholdings were withheld, but not desposited. The Archdiocese of St. Louis had to loan us $50,000.00 to cover this “benign” misjudgement. Thank God Archbishop Burke came in and made sure all parishes conform to Archdiocesan guidelines for financial reporting.

Braxton should hold himself to the same standard.

OK…point of order, because this is not the first time someone has used the libelous word “steal” to describe what is at best an administrative error and at worst a misapplication of dollars from the wrong account on a legitimate purpose.

He hasn’t stolen anything, and the dollars were spent not on personal expenses but diocesan expenses.

Bishop Braxton was told by his finance people that they didn’t believe the account in question should be used for the purchases he proposed. He disagreed and ordered the expenditures from (among other things) the Building Fund. He further stated that if someone later proved to him that these dollars were the wrong ones to use, he would find a way to re-pay them from another account (he eventually found a patron to do that).

That, friends, is a mistake…not a crime. Frankly, as one who handles public funds myself, it’s not at all uncommon, except in the public sector we just can’t go and get a grant from a private donor if we are later found to be wrong. We do the best we can to interpret the rules as clearly and honestly as possible, and document what we’ve done. Bishop Braxton did the same thing.

The same priests who are up in arms about this are the same ones who tried to get him to reject his appointment, who have never supported him in the three years he’s been bishop, and who’ve been looking for any excuse to try to get rid of him.

They will fail for the same reason they always fail…they’re warring against the Holy Spirit. Bishop Braxton is a sinner, like the rest of us, but he is a good man. The priests attacking him are serving their own self-interest.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Braxton should hold himself to the same standard.

To whom are you referring? I think you get my drift.

CDL

 

[dmelosi]

So it’s okay to steal, but if you pay back the funds if you get caught it’s not a scandal? As bishop, he knew and was told that these were restricted funds, was told they were by the finance office but did it anyway. It was AFTER the story was published on the front page of the Post-Dispatch that he started looking for a donor to replace the money. His obvious refusal to listen to his Financial office makes me wonder if this is not the only “misappropriation.”

When I donate to a fund, like for Bethlehen on Good Friday, I don’t expect that money to go to vestments.

At St. Stan’s, one of the issues is they refused to be financially audited by the Archdiocese. As a member of a parish that was FINALLY audited after the pastor retired, (at the time Archbishop Burke was installed). I was horrified at the “benign” misuse of funds. Health Insurance, Social Security, 401K, and other withholdings were withheld, but not desposited. The Archdiocese of St. Louis had to loan us $50,000.00 to cover this “benign” misjudgement. Thank God Archbishop Burke came in and made sure all parishes conform to Archdiocesan guidelines for financial reporting.

Braxton should hold himself to the same standard.

I have to believe that you didnt really accuse the bishop of stealing, but waiting for that correction.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Three years ago there was a discussion of some priests who were trying to derail the good bishop’s appointment. Take a look: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=60611

CDL

 

[qui_est_ce]

So it’s okay to steal, but if you pay back the funds if you get caught it’s not a scandal?
QUOTE=dmelosi;3478654]
I have to believe that you didnt really accuse the bishop of stealing, but waiting for that correction.

I was responding to CDL’s example excusing inappropriate behavior.

To whom are you referring? I think you get my drift.

CDL

.:bigyikes:
The pastoral standards of the office, to which Archbishop Burke holds himself, free from the appearance of impropriety.

I cannot believe so many of you think taking $18,000.00 from a restricted account by a bishop for discretionary use is small glitch. $18,000 is a lot of money. And for the bishop to ignore his finance office’s advice, although he himself should have known it was wrong, is just arrogant. Just because he didn’t use it for personal expenses ala Joyce Meyers doesn’t not free him from the appearance of scandal. He holds a high position and is held to a higher standard. I’m not saying he should be sin free.

What made the bishop finally decide he shouldn’t have done it?

I am trying to keep this issue separate from the improper behavior of the rebel priests.

 

[dmelosi]

I was responding to CDL’s example excusing inappropriate behavior.
qui est ce;3477176:

If he thought that it was wrong at the time, do you think he still would have done it? I see you corrected my assumption on the one on stealing, but now you lump should have known with arrogant. But you also said that he knew they were restricted and that he should not have done it. You are accusing again.

 

[Nordar]

I was responding to CDL’s example excusing inappropriate behavior.

Why is that arrogant?

 

[Engineer1]

I guess I don’t see spending money from the wrong account on a legitimate expense as “taking $18K”.

Accounting issue? Yes.

Inappropriate use of authority? Maybe.

Theft? No.