Belly Dancing at Church

[Jakub]

Bingo…

** In particulary, attempts by Latin Catholics in the past to bring Eastern Catholics “in line”**

 

[graceandglory]

Fr. Deacon Lance is right, if this is not your church and you are not involved in it, you do not understand the culture of the people, then it really isn’t your place. .

It might be an Eastern Catholic Church festival, but it is in the United States. Therefore these people are Americans, don’t forget that. And I do know something about American culture.

 

[graceandglory]

If it was modest, then the Original Poster, wouldn’t even be questioning it in the first place.

 

[Woodstock]

If it was modest, then the Original Poster, wouldn’t even be questioning it in the first place.

Different people and cultures define modestly differently. I see Indian women walk around all the time with their midriffs showing and no one seems to gawk at them. If the video I posted had bare breasted African women and was put on National Geographic, people would call it cultural awareness.

His questioning it could have been his own prejudices, ignorance, cultural background, scrupulosity, well-formed knowledge, manipulative desires, good-hearted effort, or any other source. We don’t know that he was maliciously trying to impose a western culture on an eastern Church any more than we know that his questioning the dancing means it was inherently immodest.

He obviously is not yet aware of the Eastern theology, the cultures which sustained her Churches, or the correct terminology to use. Instead of beating him over the head for being western, it would probably be better to politely inform him. Yes, there is a history of ignorant westerners forcefully imposing their cultural and theological standards on the eastern Churches. It isn’t going to help us any to treat every person who is ignorant or asks a question as an enemy who is coming to tear our churches down or whose church is beyond hope that it produced a man who dares to question as some of the recent threads have done.

 

[Woodstock]

I am attempting to convince an Eastern Rite parish NOT to allow belly dancing since I consider it enticing or seductive and could lead a youngster into sin. However, others say it is “part of our culture.”

Does anyone have information on the roots of belly dancing in mid eastern culture? I wonder of the possibility that it may have been used as a means for the prostitution culture? Nevertheless, would our Blessed Mother be pleased as part of the audience, and in the same building that Her Son is Present in the Blessed Sacrament to be a part of this “entertainment?”
In Christ,
–BigJoeLex:thumbsup:

Joe,

As others have pointed out, the style of belly dancing that pops into your head when you hear the word can easily be an occasion of sin because the dancer is doing a modern dance and intending to be seductive. The history of the dance, as others have pointed out, does not have lustful overtones and was actually used to support a laboring mother. In itself, it is not an occasion of sin. A pastor must consider the culture of his parishioners and what is likely to cause them to sin. Youths who were raised in America who attend an Eastern Catholic Church are likely to be formed in the American culture and susceptible to its flaws, which is one aspect the pastor must consider. That is why the bishop chose to ban belly dancing at Melkite parishes in the US, because the modern seductive form which was not traditionally used at cultural festivals could be sinful. The bishop and the priest best know their parishioners. They hear the confessions and are in the best position to decide on the appropriateness of any particular form of entertainment. There isn’t anything wrong with you pointing out things the priest might not have realized, but once you had and the priest continued to allow it, you came here and asked us to make your argument about a traditional dance the pastor and parishioners were allowing to take place as a part of their culture was connected to a culture of prostitution and despised by Mary. Can you see how that could be offensive?

The way you worded your post implies that you are not well established in the Eastern parish. You called it an Eastern Rite parish instead of an Eastern Catholic parish. People will conclude that you either don’t know enough about the Eastern Catholic Churches to know that they are full and autonomous Churches in their own right, and in the case of the Melkites have their own patriarchs, or you do know it and choose to use the term anyway. It would be like me calling you boy even after you asked me to recognize that you are a man. It has been used in our country as a way to keep minorities “in their place” on more than one occasion, and we are seeing in the news now the sub-culture of hatred, distrust, and disrespect that can be created over time when people are not treated as the equals they are. The same is true for our minority Churches, and expecting them to take on the majority culture because they are surrounded by it is only going to hurt everyone involved.

You also said that you were trying to convince the pastor and parish that they were wrong to allow the belly dancing and you asked us to help you do that. Your choice of wording shows a real lack of respect for the Church, the culture, and the priest’s authority. A better way to ask would have been to request information on belly dancing in the Middle East so that you could understand why they had made the decision to allow it. If you were still concerned, you could have taken what you learned back to the priest and expressed why. I’m sure that was your intention, but it didn’t come through in your post.

I apologize for the way people have spoken to and about you here and I ask you to forgive us all and to see this as an opportunity to learn more about the church you’ve obviously become attached to. It takes a shift in the mind to see things through a different culture’s lenses, so there’s no way you could have known in advance. Now that you do, you will be in a position to better understand and respect the priest and the parish.

 

[Peter_J]

If it was modest, then the Original Poster, wouldn’t even be questioning it in the first place.

Interesting. So the fact that he’s questioning it proves that it’s immodest?

So Pilate came out to them and said, “What charge do you bring against this man?”
They answered and said to him, “If he were not a criminal, we would not have handed him over to you.”
-John 18:29-30