Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

[The_Barbarian]

Hitler in “Mein Kampf”;
And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary,
He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God….page 174

Barbarian observes:
A good deal of Hitler’s unreasoning hate of Jews was based in his twisted idea of God. And about 90 percent of that was taken from Martin Luther.

His hatred of the Jewish people was politically oriented more than religious.

Not according to Hitler. And he gets to say what he thinks.

not some kind of religious mission as defined by traditional Christian beliefs. You are the one twisting things here.

Notice Hitler defines it as a relgious mission.

They saw America as “becoming less Protestant, less English, and less white” and America as committing “racial suicide” (Whitaker 45). This provided the perfect atmosphere for eugenics to proliferate throughout the country.

Barbarian observes:
So it wasn’t Darwinism, after all. Thank you.

Remember the “Apology of the Methodist Church”? They said it was DaRWINISM)

Barbarian observes:
It would have been better for themselves, if they hadn’t tried to lay some of their guilt off on to the very people who denounced what they had done. Just as Stein tries to excuse the Nazis, so the Methodist Church tries to excuse itself by blaming the very people who pointed out the evil and the futility in what they did.

In what way does Stein excuse the Nazis?

The Anti-Defamation League:
** The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.

Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.**

and

Arthur Caplan:
To lay blame for the Holocaust upon Charles Darwin is to engage in a form of Holocaust denial that should forever make Ben Stein the subject of scorn not because of his nudnik concern that evolution somehow undermines morality but because in this contemptible movie he is willing to subvert the key reason why the Holocaust took place — racism — to serve his own ideological end. Expelled indeed.

His own people are disgusted with him. For obvious reasons. The horror of the Holocaust fell most severely on them, and they have reason to detest anyone who makes excuses for the people who did it.

You are really twisting things now.

See above.

Barbarian observes:
Ninety percent of the “Final Solution” can be found in Luther’s advice on what to do with the Jews. Hitler took his instructions from it.

Don’t see it…you had to resort to going to political speeches to find your referencese to Christianity.

Mein Kampf. The same source you used.

Barbarian observes:
So, to sum up, we know Darwin objected to such ideas. We know Darwinian scientists objected to them. We know that they were promoted by many religious leaders.

And your conclusion is, Darwin is to blame. Amazing.

So to sum it up, we do not know Darwin objected to these ideas.

He wrote that he did in The Descent of Man

he died before the eugenics society was formed.

Luther and other racists were peddling these ideas long before the word came up.

All of these trace themselves back to Darwin in some way.

In the sense that he called them “evil.” On the other hand, as you know, most of the Final Solution was proposed by Luther. The Wannsee Protocol was essentially Luther’s proposal.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

The problem with your whole argument is that you take some writings of Martib Luther that are anti-semetic and apply it to the Nazi movement that was based on racial purity, as the evolution of a superior human species. You have a motive (hatred of jewish people because they killed Christ) tied to a movement (racial cleansing to obtain a pure Germmanic civilization) so the motive doesn’t match with the ends nor does it match with the means (mass killing of impure, weak racial and ethnic types).

Even the eugenics movement in our country defines itslef based on the secience of Mendal, or a science of heredity. That is why people who were defined as low intelligence were selected out for sterilization. The racism became a part of the mix but the main motive was to build a superior human civiliazation with spuperior human types.
writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/wansee-transcript.html
Let us look at the German document you keep referring to:

" Persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be treated
fundamentally as persons of German blood, with the exception of
the following cases, in which the persons of mixed blood of the
second degree will be considered as Jews:

 a)   The person of mixed blood of the second degree was born
      of a marriage in which both parents are persons of
      mixed blood.

 b)   The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a
      racially especially undesirable appearance that marks
      him outwardly as a Jew.

 c)   The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a
      particularly bad police and political record that shows
      that he feels and behaves like a Jew.

 Also in these cases exemptions should not be made if the

person of mixed blood of the second degree has married a person
of German blood.

1. Marriages between Full Jews and Persons of German Blood.
   
   Here it must be decided from case to case whether the Jewish
   partner will be evacuated or whether, with regard to the effects
   of such a step on the German relatives, [this mixed marriage]
   should be sent to an old-age ghetto.
2. Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree
   and Persons of German Blood.
   
   a) Without Children.
   

      If no children have resulted from the marriage, the
      person of mixed blood of the first degree will be
      evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto (same treatment
      as in the case of marriages between full Jews and
      persons of German blood, point 3.)

   b) With Children.
   

      If children have resulted from the marriage (persons of
      mixed blood of the second degree), they will, if they
      are to be treated as Jews, be evacuated or sent to a
      ghetto along with the parent of mixed blood of the
      first degree.  If these children are to be treated as
      Germans (regular cases), they are exempted from
      evacuation as is therefore the parent of mixed blood of
      the first degree.

3. Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree
   and Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree or Jews.
   
   In these marriages (including the children) all members of
   the family will be treated as Jews and therefore be evacuated or
   sent to an old-age ghetto.
4. Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree
   and Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree.
   
   In these marriages both partners will be evacuated or sent
   to an old-age ghetto without consideration of whether the
   marriage has produced children, since possible children will as a
   rule have stronger Jewish blood than the Jewish person of mixed
   blood of the second degree.
   
   SS-Gruppenfuehrer Hofmann advocates the opinion that
   sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of
   mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated
   or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization."

---

This was a program for creating a pure blooded germanic civilazation. If there is a religious content to it it is the worship of the superior race and the belief that it is the responsibility of the state to carry that out. If God is brought into the equation it is to
provide a moral argument for something that is evil. It is not of God in any way, not were Martin Luther’s writings. But Hitler and his men, as we can see from the songs of the Nazi youth, were not serving Christ.

“We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.”

See foloowing post for more.
In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

To further build on the argument that the Nazi movement was the worship of a Nature and Nature as god over any Christian idea let us again reitterate that what you have cited as a motive (hatred of Jews) is not matched with the means.(killing of imbeciles, elderly, Jewish and all mixed blood people who are considered Jewish).

For one thing the Nazi scientists did many studies comparing the skulls and physical types of different people. what would the object of these studies be? Would it be tied to identifying people of Jewish descent only? The answer is no, the studies were tied to undergirding the argument that intelligence and worth of a human person was tied to race and genetics.

anthropometry

skepdic.com/anthropo.html
"Anthropometry is the study of human body measurement for use in anthropological classification and comparison.

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, anthropometry was a pseudoscience used mainly to classify potential criminals by facial characteristics. For example, Cesare Lombroso’s Criminal Anthropology (1895) claimed that murderers have prominent jaws and pickpockets have long hands and scanty beards. The work of Eugene Vidocq, which identifies criminals by facial characteristics, is still used nearly a century after its introduction in France.

The most infamous use of anthropometry was by the Nazis, whose Bureau for Enlightenment on Population Policy and Racial Welfare recommended the classification of Aryans and non-Aryans on the basis of measurements of the skull and other physical features. Craniometric certification was required by law. The Nazis set up certification institutes to further their racial policies. Not measuring up meant denial of permission to marry or work, and for many it meant the death camps."

---

The fact remains that while antisemitism was used by the nazi propaganda machine the ultimate mission was a mission based on building pure blood to create a superior race.

I have already agreed that Darwin would never have wanted his ideas to be interpreted and used in this way. Martin Luther (I hope) would not have wanted his ideas to be used this way either.
Mass murder is mass murder. You can only go down that path if you are worshipping an end that is not from the Christian God.
Jesus said over and over that He came to bring Life. This past culture of death (Nazis), like the present culture of death (abortion, euthanasia) seeks technological solutions to building a perfect world. Science is the god that gives them the means and arguments to pursue those ends, not the Christ of the gospels who said to love your enemies as well as your neighbor and to choose ‘life’ not death.If religion is used for propaganda, it is not the authentic religion of Love.

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Here is a speech by Dr. Walter Gross,who was the head of the Reich Bureau for Enlightenment on Population Policy and Racial Welfare,

National Socialist Racial Policy:
A Speech to German Women
by Dr. Walter Gross
stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=62419

Note:He is talking about the decision to euthanize the weak and elderly or unfit here)

"With full knowledge of our duties as human beings and the requirements of pity, we made the decision not to allow such miserable creatures to pass on their misery to the next generation, multiplied perhaps two or three or more times. That is a major accomplishment, for which our children and their children will one day thank us.

I know that there are those who will say: “You are meddling in matters that are not your concern. You are interfering in an area outside human control. Life and death are not in the hands of man, but in those of a higher power. If God wants sick and genetically ill people to be born, you may not interfere through laws, operations, or any other measures with God’s will. And if you do so—and you have with your Law to Prevent Inherited Illness—then you are acting against the will of God, and you are heretics.”

This is our answer: "My friend, you are wrong. It is true that we are subject to a higher power. We humans may never interfere with the great laws of the Creator. But you are wrong. See the laws the Creator has established for his world and your life. The great law is that life must be able to preserve itself, and that if it cannot, it will collapse. It is the hard, brutal law of the struggle for existence and of selection and extinction. It was the law we saw day by day, hour by hour, under all the clouds of heaven and all the stars of the sky, in which life seemed to find a senseless death, whether plant or animal or person, whether in distant Africa or near us.

That which cannot meet the challenges of life dies, no matter how much pain it causes,

and even if your small understanding or mind cannot comprehend it, these are the great laws of life and the world that God himself gave us. These are the laws, my German friend, that in our crazy fantasies we broke in the past."

With overweening human pride and false pity, we broke the great law and kept those alive who under the laws of God would long since have perished.

Today we are once more following these old laws, using humane methods, for they follow a more hard and brutal course in nature according to God’s will. We are doing nothing more than reestablishing the laws of creation, and bowing to the heavenly order. We are thus showing piety and true humility—you are the heretics.

This applies as well to the third and last principle of our racial thinking. This third and last principle is that the people on this world, in America, Africa or China, are different both in body and soul. They are not equal, as yesterday’s lie had it.

People are different.

… In the past people believed that these differences were accidental, the result of climate or civilization, and that one could overcome these differences and create a unified man in a unified state in which all would be equally happy. We have learned that such ideas are false. We have learned that the differences between the major blood groups of the world, between the major races, are not the result of human action, but of the laws of Creation.

…
The others may not be better or worse, but they are different than we are, …that is part of the laws of life. That is the core of National Socialism’s racial thinking. Our goal is not to insult others, to say: “What a great guy I am!” Rather, we hold to the humble recognition that each healthy piece of life has its corner of the world, and its special tasks. This is just as true of humans as it is of plants and animals in all their multiplicity. We know that one type is no more valuable than another. But we also know that each variety of life has a right to existence only as long as it keeps itself pure and strong.

---

We see the rationale behind the Nazi’s was that it was the duty and responsibility to the stronger to cultivate the stronger inorder to fulfill the laws of nature. That came out of Darwin and his writings on natural selection.

A quote from Dr. Walter gross
"“Civilization is only possible through the individual becoming part of the whole and just as collective authority in the interests of all limits the egoism of the individual . . . , it similarly has the right to implement such measures for the benefit of the community as are scientifically proved expedient in the way of population policy or eugenics.” [Id. @ 70]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Gross

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

The fact is that even the ideas of ‘evolution’ go back much firther than Darwin. He just brought in concepts of ‘natural selection’. What the nazi’s did was decide that it was more humane to society to kill the weak so that the strong could flourish and evolve at a faster rate. As you pointed out the scieintific research under staticians said it would take many generations and that positive eugenics programs would not work, thus they turned to other eugenic programs. Still 'social Darwinism" had its day in Germany.

This forum is not about saving Darwin’s reputation so much as it is to say science was part of these ideas. Science, scientists were part of the propaganda machine just as much as some antisemetic Christian writings like martin Luther. If you can see the link with martin Luther you should be able to see the link to science as well.

Eugenics was a part of the program. it was about ‘selection of the fittest’.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics
"Hitler’s views on eugenics
Adolf Hitler had read some racial-hygiene tracts during his period of imprisonment in Landsberg Prison. The future leader considered that Germany could only become strong again if the state applied to German society the basic principles of racial hygiene and eugenics. Hitler believed the nation had become weak, corrupted by the infusion of degenerate elements into its bloodstream.[citation needed] In his opinion, these had to be removed as quickly as possible. He also believed that the strong and the racially pure had to be encouraged to have more children, and the weak and the racially impure had to be neutralized by one means or another.

The concepts of racist ideas of competition, termed social Darwinism in 1944, were discussed by European scientists, and also in the Vienna press during the 1920s, but how exactly Hitler picked up these ideas is uncertain.[2] In 1876, Ernst Haeckel had discussed the selective infanticide policy of the Greek city of ancient Sparta.[3] In his Second Book, which was kept unpublished during Nazi Germany, Hitler also praised Sparta, adding that this was because he considered Sparta to be the first “Völkisch State,” and endorsed what he perceived to be an early eugenics treatment of deformed children:"

So we can even go way back to other periods in history, like Sparta, where such pure, strong race policies were used.
You insistance that this is all from martin Luther’s writings just
does not match historical record.

In Christ,
maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Scientists are admitting that science had a big role in the Nazi program for eugenics.

Darwin or not Darwin, the fact that science provided the rationale for the eugenics program in Nazi germany cannot be denied. it is historical fact.

pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=11600445
EMBO Rep. 2001 October 15; 2(10): 871–875.
doi: 10.1093/embo-reports/kve217. PMCID: PMC1084095

Copyright © 2001 European Molecular Biology Organization
Science & Society
Analysis
In the name of science
The role of biologists in Nazi atrocities: lessons for today’s scientists
Katrin Weigmann

The Max Planck Society is currently engaged in coming to terms with its past. Its president, Hubert Markl, launched a research programme, History of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society in the National Socialist Era, in 1999 to investigate the involvement of scientists of the KWS in Nazi crimes. First results have now been published (Proctor, 2000; Sachse and Massin, 2000; Schmuhl, 2000). In June 2001, Markl acknowledged the historical responsibility of the Max Planck Society at a scientific symposium entitled ‘Biomedical Sciences and Human Experimentation at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes—The Auschwitz Connection’, which was held in conjunction with the historical research programme. In his opening speech he said, ‘We must be prepared as well—no matter how painful it may be, and even precisely because it hurts—to accept the truth and face up to our responsibility to learn for the present and the future from the insight into the past’.

Discrimination based on science has a long history. In the 19th century, scientists, mainly from the USA, became interested in craniometry, the determination of intelligence through skull measurements. Between 1830 and 1850, Samuel George Morton collected over 1000 skulls to determine an ‘objective’ racial ranking according to physical characteristics such as brain size. Using these data, Morton declared that individual races ranked according to his preconceptions: whites first, then native Americans and black people last. Later, Stephen Jay Gould re-investigated the data and found Morton’s summaries to be ‘a patchwork of fudging and finagling in the clear interest of controlling a priori convictions’. Yet Gould would not accuse Morton of conscious fraud: ‘All I can discern is an a priori conviction about racial ranking so powerful that it directed his tabulations along pre-established lines’ (Gould, 1981). Morton was succeeded in this area of study by Francis Galton, Robert Bennett Bean and Paul Broca, to name but a few, who measured the relationship between brain parts, brain weight or cranial folds, discarding one criteria and turning their attention to another to justify their prejudices accordingly (Gould, 1981).

It was Galton who first coined the word eugenics as ‘the study of agencies under social control that may improve or impair the racial qualities of future generations’. In Hereditary Character and Talent, he wrote, ‘If a twentieth part of the cost and pains were spent in measures for the improvement of the human race that is spent on the improvement of the breed of horses and cattle, what galaxy of genius might we not create!’. The eugenics movement predicted the degeneration of modern civilisation, in part due to ‘differential reproduction’, and proffered scientific arguments and scientific means to counteract this. The theory of eugenics quickly spread world-wide, but the degree to which it was implemented varied from country to country. Even under social democratic governments, atrocities took place. In Sweden, for example, 63 000 people—including most resident gypsies—were legally sterilised between 1934 and 1975, mainly because of ‘antisocial behaviour’.

In Germany, eugenics gained many supporters long before Hitler came to power, and was not solely a monstrosity of Hitler as so often portrayed. German scientists contributed considerably to the rise of eugenics. At the beginning of the 1920s, Erwin Baur, Eugen Fischer and Fritz Lenz published Human Heredity Teaching and Racial Hygiene, a textbook of major impact with multiple subsequent editions. In 1927, Fischer was appointed Director of the newly-founded Kaiser Wilhelm Institute (KWI) for Anthropology, Human Genetics and Eugenics in Berlin-Dahlem, where Lenz joined him in 1934. The book ascended to become the standard text for substantiation of National Socialist ideology and Lenz prided himself on the fact that parts of it were reflected in Hitler’s speeches (Müller-Hill, 1981).

Ernst Rüdin was another scientist instrumental in setting the framework for racial politics. In 1905 he co-founded the ‘Society for Racial Hygiene’ to promote eugenics, …

---

and Galton was mentione in Darwin’s writings. They must have talked about this along the way.

In Christ, MaryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

Scientists are admitting that science had a big role in the Nazi program for eugenics.

That’s wrong. As you know, Benjamin Stein simply lied about scientists telling his people to go into the gas chambers. His own people have been denouncing him for his excuses on behalf of the Nazis.

Darwin or not Darwin, the fact that science provided the rationale for the eugenics program in Nazi germany cannot be denied.

It’s not a fact; it’s just your fantasy. As you learned, most of Hitler’s program was first proposed by Martin Luther.

And not a single scientist actually took part in the holocaust. The one physiologist was actually a physician. At Nuremberg, the scientists were notable by their absence.

Where there any Christians in the dock? Unfortunately, so. Do you want to blame Christians for the Holocaust, then? Be honest with yourself, Mary.

As you know, Darwin denounced eugenic ideas, and Darwinists later showed they were scientifically unsound. Is it any wonder that the Anti-Defamation League and other Jewish groups have denounced Stein for denying the cause of the Holocaust?

Is it any wonder scientists denounced Stein for pretending Darwin was behind it?

(argument that since Darwin must have communicated with Dalton, Darwin must have actually agreed with eugenic ideas)

Ronald Reagan communicated with Saddam Hussein. Are you telling me that we should blame Ronald Reagan for genocide?

Stein committed the worst kind of blood libel against Darwin, blatantly lied about scientists forcing people into the gas chambers, and has been repeatedly denounced by his own people for trivializing the causes of the Holocaust.

Why would you continue to defend scum like that?

 

[MaryJohnZ]

That’s wrong. As you know, Benjamin Stein simply lied about scientists telling his people to go into the gas chambers. His own people have been denouncing him for his excuses on behalf of the Nazis.

---

You say no scientists were involved, see the post from the Max Planck scientific research group.The last post was from the modern day research group that formerly was the Nazi research group and that is why they were talking about the scientists who were involved in the Nazi era.

What about Josef Mengele, doctor, paleontologist, scientist social darwinist, who stood on the train platform at Aushwitz and decided which prisoners would go toward the gas chanmbers and which would be workers. he also was the doctor who conducted horrible experiements on inmates. he considered himself a scientist and he acted as a scientist. Other scientists were involved as well in research, maybe not all did so willingly.

trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/history/mengele/nazi_3.html
By Douglas B. Lynott
The Making of a Young Nazi

" This “political concept” that Mengele wrote of became his vehicle upon which he would seek to advance his career, his fame as a researcher and scientist. Wasting no time, he joined a nationalistic organization called the Stalhelm, or the Steel Helmets, in 1931. The Stalhelm wore decorative German uniforms and paraded to nationalist music during public events. While they were not yet affiliated with the Nazi Party at this time, they nonetheless shared the same rabid nationalistic ideology as the Nazis.

As his political consciousness began to blossom, Mengele commenced his studies, focusing on anthropology and paleontology, as well as medicine. Medicine, or the art of healing, was truly a secondary interest of Mengele’s; his growing passion was for eugenics, the search for the keys to unlock the secret of genetics and reveal the sources of human deformities and imperfections. Mengele’s interest in this field of study arose at a time when a number of prominent German academics and medical professionals were espousing the theory of “unworthy life,” a theory which advanced the notion that some lives were simply not worthy of living. It was here that Mengele began to strive in his efforts to distinguish himself, to both gain renown and respect as a scientific researcher and to advance the perfection of the German race. However ambitious Mengele may have been in this regard, his academic passion revealed little to nothing of the murderous zeal that was to one day result from it. One of his university colleagues, Professor Hans Grebe, has stated that “There was nothing in his personality to suggest that he would do what he did (as an SS doctor at Auschwitz).”

If Mengele himself became a cold-blooded monster at the height of his Nazi career, he certainly learned at the feet of some of Germany’s most diabolical minds. As a student Mengele attended the lectures of Dr. Ernst Rudin, who posited not only that there were some lives not worth living, but that doctors had a responsibility to destroy such life and remove it from the general population. His prominent views gained the attention of Hitler himself, and Rudin was drafted to assist in composing the Law for the Protection of Heredity Health, which passed in 1933, the same year that the Nazis took complete control of the German government. This unapologetic Social Darwinist contributed to the Nazi decree that called for the sterilization of those demonstrating the following flaws, lest they reproduce and further contaminate the German gene pool: feeblemindedness; schizophrenia; manic depression; epilepsy; hereditary blindness; deafness; physical deformities; Huntington’s disease; and alcoholism.

---

It is part of the historic record Barbarian. Mengele acted as a scientific researcher. You and I will probably agree he was horrible and that everything he did was deeply immoral, but he was doing it in the name of science and he felt he had a scientific
rationale for doing it: Social Darwinism and eugenics.

Perhaps Darwin would have disagreed with Social Darwinism carried out this way, but that doesn not change the fact it was one way of interpreting natural selection and the ‘survival of the fittest’. I am not putting all the blame on Darwin… but your constant rant that scientists were not involved is completely lacking in historic fact.

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

This article comes from an exhibit related to doctors, scientists and researchers that took part in the Nazi program. The article warns that one of the findings is that socialized medicine tends to create a different relationship between the doctor and the patient, a more impersonal realtionship. It warns that similiar events could be part of our present day world if we are not careful. But the exhibit showed that many researchers from the science community were involved, not necessarily at the camp but directing research from universities.

Exhibition Examines Scientists’ Complicity In Nazi-Era Atrocities

By WARREN E. LEARY,

"Adolf Hitler and his followers embraced the idea that the right to life must be earned and justified, not assumed, and this became an excuse for eliminating the genetically deficient, who consumed valuable resources. Among those considered deficient were Jews, gypsies, people of mixed blood and those with inherited illnesses.

The exhibit suggests that doctors, more than any other professional group in Germany, accepted the new order. More than 38,000 doctors, almost half of Germany’s total, joined the Nazi Party.U] Being part of this system allowed doctors and scientists to get research grants, receive promotions at universities and take over the jobs and practices of thousands of Jews who were no longer allowed to practice medicine.

It was hard for doctors who did not go along with the system to advance their careers, Dr. Pross said, but he added that there was little evidence that physicians who refused to take part were killed or sent to prisonunless they also actively worked against the party or supported the underground.

Fewer than 100 doctors and scientists were found guilty of war crimes in Allied courts after the war, said Dr. Arthur L. Caplan, director of the Center for Biomedical Ethics at the University of Minnesota. But he said many more had helped to conduct research on prisoners and to organize the death camps by assisting in designing and reviewing the “research” or by offering technical assistance.

Dr. Caplan, who edited the book “When Medicine Went Mad: Bioethics and the Holocaust,” (1992, Humana Press), said the role of mainstream medicine and science in the atrocities had been underplayed.

“A relatively small number of doctors and scientists took a direct role in killing and torture,” Dr. Caplan said. “But a large number, many in universities and prestigious institutions, provided intellectual and professional support for the policies of the Nazis.” ‘An Awesome Potential’
Dr. James S. Todd, executive vice-president of the American Medical Association, said there is always a moral hazard when powerful individuals achieve such dominance over ordinary people. Doctors, he said, have a special responsibility because people entrust them with their privacy as well as with with their lives. The museum, which is located on the campus of Walter Reed Army Medical Center at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.

“The great concern of American physicians is the Government increasingly interfering with the doctor-patient relationship,” Dr. Todd said. “One of our biggest challenges today is balancing medicine and health against the resources available. But we have to strive to do this without forgetting about the patients we serve.”

The issues that faced German doctors still exist, and modern biomedical science has given people the tools to manipulate human genetics in ways the Nazis could never have dreamed of, Dr. Todd said. “Genetic manipulation gives us an awesome potential to use it for good, to detect and treat disease and deformity,” he said. “But we must learn to use it morally and ethically, without stepping over the line.”
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFDA1530F933A25752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

Exhibition Examines Scientists’ Complicity In Nazi-Era Atrocities

By WARREN E. LEARY,

"Adolf Hitler and his followers embraced the idea that the right to life must be earned and justified, not assumed, and this became an excuse for eliminating the genetically deficient, who consumed valuable resources.

Notice that Darwin called this kind of thinking “evil.”

"Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of
hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our
nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation,
for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if
we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could
only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil."
Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

This is why Benjamin Stein has been so criticized for his blood libel against Darwin; he is blaming the very people who denounced this kind of thinking,and is making excuses for the people who actually committed the Holocaust.

As you know, only one scientist was in the dock at the War Crimes Tribunal at the end of the war (and he was actually a physician, not a scientist) While there were certainly other scientists who didn’t accept the Darwinian idea that eugenics was evil, they were no more guilty than those churches you mentioned, who also did not accept Darwin’s opinion, and embraced eugenics.

And, as you know, Martin Luther first proposed the same program adopted by the Nazis as the “Final Solution.”

It is part of the historic record Barbarian. Mengele acted as a scientific researcher.

A doctor, not a scientist. And his “research” was a ghastly joke. Little of it had any value at all, mostly minutia of anatomical data and gruesome tortures for no apparent reason.

You and I will probably agree he was horrible and that everything he did was deeply immoral, but he was doing it in the name of science

Luther suggested robbing, enslaving, and deporting Jews in the name of Christianity. Do you think any of this reflects on science and Christianity?

By now, you certainly realize that Stein’s accusations against Darwin and his followers are libels against the very people who opposed eugenics and the Nazis.

Why not just admit it, and go on? There is no point in finding excuses for Luther or the Nazis. They did what they did, and neither Christianity nor science are justifications, even if Hitler claimed to be doing it in the name of Christianity.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

“A relatively small number of doctors and scientists took a direct role in killing and torture,” Dr. Caplan said. “But a large number, many in universities and prestigious institutions, provided intellectual and professional support for the policies of the Nazis.” ‘An Awesome Potential’
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CEFDA1530F933A25752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

If many of them were directing research from university offices then they would not be prosecuted like those who were committing the attrocities at the camps.

We are looking for the ideas behind the Nazi regime and the ideas were not Christian but a perverted view of Darwin. Even the quote you provide contiually hints at that line of thought as we previously pointed out:

“… but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.”
Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

The way Darwin’s ideas were perverted is that the ‘contingent benefit’ of saving society from weaker types was deemd to be a greater contingent benefit for society than saving them.

We are going in circles if we get back to that again.

Darwin did not provide enough of an argument to dissuade his cousin and son from eugenics ideas. I am sure his son’s presence in the eugenics society gave the appearance that Darwin’s theory fully supported their endeavors. Whether that was absolutely true or not, Social Darwinism pushed foreward …

“The racial policy of Nazi Germany refers to the policies and laws implemented by Nazi Germany, asserting the superiority of the so-called “Aryan race” and based on a specific racist doctrine which claimed scientific legitimacy. It was combined with an eugenics programme which aimed to achieve “racial purity” of the “Aryan race”, using compulsory sterilizations and extermination of specific minorities, culminating in the Holocaust. The Nazi ideology and policies targeted first of all Jews, who were considered as the most “inferior races” of all, on a hierarchy which included Jews at the bottom and the “Herrenvolk” (“Master race”) of the “Volksgemeinschaft” (German “national community”) at the top…”

According to this article there was a Gewrman psychiatrist who was key to forming the policy of racial purity. His name was
“Ernst Rüdin (April 19, 1874 - October 22, 1952), was a Swiss psychiatrist, geneticist and eugenicist. Rüdin was born in St. Gallen, Switzerland. He is known as one of the fathers[original research?] of racial hygiene.” he was influenced according to this article by his relative, a biologist who was a social Darwinist;
Alfred Ploetz (March 22, 1860 - March 20, 1940) German physician, biologist, eugenicist. Known for introducing racial hygiene (rassenhygiene).

So those are two scientists who were key to the policies behind the Nazi regime. One of them was a physician, biologist and eugenicist.

quote from “Ernst Rüdin :
“The significance of Rassenhygiene did not become evident to all aware Germans until the political activity of Adolf Hitler and only through his work has our 30 year long dream of translating Rassenhygiene into action finally become a reality.” - Ernst Rüdin.”

“Whoever is not physically or mentally fit must not pass on his defects to his children. The state must take care that only the fit produce children…” - Ernst Rüdin at a speech to the German Society for Rassenhygiene, quoting Hitler"

---

I saw this historian article online. He visited the home of the German biologist and eugenicist Alfred Ploetz and spoke to his son about his father trying to find out what was behind the nazi’s racial policies.Hhe had an interesting take on what brought about Hitler’s ideas:

"But there are, of course, other factors to consider in explaining Hitler’s evil. First of all, Hitler embraced a world view that denied any personal God or transcendent moral standards. Rather the cosmos and human history were products of an impersonal Fate, Providence or Destiny, which were synonymous with natural laws. The emptiness of the cosmos was reflected in his personal life, for Kershaw points out that Hitler had no real friendships or close relationships with anyone, not even his mistress Eva Braun. He refused to marry (until the day before he committed suicide) because of his devotion to the German people, but for him the German people was always an abstraction. Even during the war, he never visited hospitals or injured troops or bombed cities. He lacked all empathy with real people, and he even criticized those who allowed sympathy to influence their political decisions.

Secondly, since Hitler believed that nothing exists beyond nature, he tried to find his purpose in life in obeying the iron laws of nature. Darwinian biology was especially significant in this regard, as he tried to apply its lessons to politics and society. Darwinism–especially forms of it often disparagingly called Social Darwinism today–taught him that life is a constant struggle for existence leading to biological progress. Hitler embraced eugenics and racial extermination of allegedly inferior races as means to improve the human species and foster progress."

from:The Roots of Hitler’s Evil
by Richard Weikart

Professor of History
California State Univ., Stanislaus
web.csustan.edu/History/Faculty/Weikart/hitler-evil.htm

---

I have not found any article online that says Hitler’s rise and the Nazi’s policies had roots other than Social Darwinism.
In Christ,
maryJohnZ

 

[Kaninchen]

I have not found any article online that says Hitler’s rise and the Nazi’s policies had roots other than Social Darwinism.

Says more about the nature of online ‘research’ than it does about the results of historical scholarship.

 

[The_Barbarian]

If many of them were directing research from university offices then they would not be prosecuted like those who were committing the attrocities at the camps.

Many, like the churches you cited, simply accepted and promoted eugenics, without committing crimes in the Holocaust.

We are looking for the ideas behind the Nazi regime and the ideas were not Christian

Christians like Luther actually advocated most of what the Nazis actually did with the Jews. Notice, too, that while Darwin and Darwinians denounced eugenic ideas, some churches promoted them.

** but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil."**
Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

The way Darwin’s ideas were perverted is that the ‘contingent benefit’ of saving society from weaker types was deemd to be a greater contingent benefit for society than saving them.

So, you’re saying the Nazis did exactly the opposite of what Darwin thought was right. And they did precisely what Luther recommended.

We are going in circles if we get back to that again.

If you want to keep reviewing the facts, it’s fine with me.

Darwin did not provide enough of an argument to dissuade his cousin and son from eugenics ideas.

They weren’t scientists, after all, so that’s understandable. Luther wasn’t a scientist, either. Nor was Hitler.

More evidence that Hitler was motivated by Luther, not Darwin:
"Whoever is not physically or mentally fit must not pass on his defects to his children. The state must take care that only the fit produce children…" - Ernst Rüdin at a speech to the German Society for Rassenhygiene, quoting Hitler"

As you know, Darwin denounced such ideas, and later Darwinists showed that this approach would not work.

But there are, of course, other factors to consider in explaining Hitler’s evil. First of all, Hitler embraced a world view that denied any personal God or transcendent moral standards.

Although Hitler had a twisted view of God, he repeatedly confirmed his belief in God. Superstitious and evil as it was, his belief in God was always a part of his life. He just saw a vicious, fighter God, the exact opposite of the real one.

 

[The_Barbarian]

I have not found any article online that says Hitler’s rise and the Nazi’s policies had roots other than Social Darwinism.

A quick search brought up:

**Luther represents the birth of Protestant Christianity as well as the genesis of the special brand of Jewish hatred that flourished only in Germany.

Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a level never before seen in Europe… But Luther’s 1543 book, “On the Jews and their lies” took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God’s name. Luther wanted to “be rid of them” and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. …He goes so far as to claim that “We are at fault in not slaying them” for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler’s Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther’s desires to a tee.

So vehemently did Luther speak against the Jews, and the fact that Luther represented an honorable and admired Christian to Protestants, that his written words carried the “memetic” seeds of anti-Jewishness up until the 20th century and into the Third Reich. Luther’s Jewish eliminationist rhetoric virtually matches the beliefs held by Hitler and much of the German populace in the 1930s.,In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the “Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther.” The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen’s book, Hitler’s Willing Executioners, he writes:

"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"...Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther's influence on Nazi Germany:

When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind “on the Jews and their Lies” for posterity.
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich]

Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held… From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds.
-“Geist und Kampf” (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich] **
nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

and:

** “It is easy to see how Luther prepared the way for Hitler.”**

The late DR. WILLIAM TEMPLE Archbishop of Canterbury
(“The Archbishop’s Conference, Malvern, London, 1941, page 13).

and…

** From Luther to Hitler: The History of Fascist-Nazi Political Philosophy by William Montgomery McGovern

The American Historical Review, Vol. 49, No. 3 (Apr., 1944), pp. 472-474 (review consists of 3 pages) **​

jstor.org/pss/1841044

In his speech of 1935, three years before Kristallnacht, Professor Werdermann established for Luther and Hitler, a common goal: the “Jewish Solution.” … "In his treatment of the Jewish Question, Adolf Hitler continues and completes Luther’s work.
books.google.com/books?id=_leG5ztYoZwC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=luther+and+hitler&source=web&ots=v0WkLY2f7d&sig=vxE17N5dvhD847ClTykVzk_TE-o&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

and…

If one were looking for the source of Hitler’s anti-Semitism, one might consider Martin Luther. Luther’s "On the Jews and Their Lies is one of the most repugnant expressions of anti-Semitism in European history. Scholars such as Richard Steigman-Gall–in his book The Holy Reich–have shown the immense influence of Luther on the Nazis.
darwinianconservatism.blogspot.com/2008/04/connecting-hitler-and-darwin-or-luther.html

and…

Without doubt Richard Steigmann-Gall has undertaken a massive and careful research project to detail comprehensively the way Nazism touched and drew upon especially Germany’s Protestant heritage. His archive work is impressive and the text’s story is pieced together with both thought and art…More unusually it also discusses possible connections between Christianity and Nazi social policy, which centred around the creation of a Volksgemeinschaft.

I suggest that, for many of its leaders, Nazism was not the result of a ‘Death of God’ in secularized society, but rather a radicalized and singularly horrific attempt to preserve God against secularized society.’ (p. 12)

Steigmann-Gall buttresses his case with a wealth of information drawn from across the period of National Socialism’s existence. Hans Koch remained a card-carrying Christian even after 1945; Josef Goebbels once interpreted Nazism as involved in the struggle of Christianity against Marxism; and Dietrich Eckart used images of Christ on the cross in his work. So the purpose of the author’s discussion becomes the case that many Nazis understood themselves to be the true political expression of Christianity.
history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/housdenM.html

Not hard to find. A lot more data is there, if you look.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Says more about the nature of online ‘research’ than it does about the results of historical scholarship.

I guess you haven’t read all the posts. I already said martin Luther and anti-semitism were part of the equation and provided fuel for the fire, but the ultimate goal was based on the concept that it was the social responsibility of the state to preserve the pure blood line of the Ayrian race. “Survival of the fittest” applies to this concept. That they saw the Jewish people as the lowest denominator on their hierarchy of races did not come from Martin Luther but it was supported by Luther’s writings, and the antisemitism that was already prevalent.You are taking one element of the mix and in denial of the whole other element, the eugenics movement and social Darwinism.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

A quick search brought up:

**Luther represents the birth of Protestant Christianity as well as the genesis of the special brand of Jewish hatred that flourished only in Germany.

So vehemently did Luther speak against the Jews, and the fact that Luther represented an honorable and admired Christian to Protestants, that his written words carried the “memetic” seeds of anti-Jewishness up until the 20th century and into the Third Reich. Luther’s Jewish eliminationist rhetoric virtually matches the beliefs held by Hitler and much of the German populace in the 1930s.,In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the “Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther.” The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen’s book, Hitler’s Willing Executioners, he writes:

"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"...Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther's influence on Nazi Germany:

When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind “on the Jews and their Lies” for posterity.
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich]

Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held… From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds.
-“Geist und Kampf” (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich] **
nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

and:

** “It is easy to see how Luther prepared the way for Hitler.”**

The late DR. WILLIAM TEMPLE Archbishop of Canterbury
(“The Archbishop’s Conference, Malvern, London, 1941, page 13).

and…

** From Luther to Hitler: The History of Fascist-Nazi Political Philosophy by William Montgomery McGovern

The American Historical Review, Vol. 49, No. 3 (Apr., 1944), pp. 472-474 (review consists of 3 pages) **​

jstor.org/pss/1841044

In his speech of 1935, three years before Kristallnacht, Professor Werdermann established for Luther and Hitler, a common goal: the “Jewish Solution.” … "In his treatment of the Jewish Question, Adolf Hitler continues and completes Luther’s work.
books.google.com/books?id=_leG5ztYoZwC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=luther+and+hitler&source=web&ots=v0WkLY2f7d&sig=vxE17N5dvhD847ClTykVzk_TE-o&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

and…

If one were looking for the source of Hitler’s anti-Semitism, one might consider Martin Luther. Luther’s "On the Jews and Their Lies is one of the most repugnant expressions of anti-Semitism in European history. Scholars such as Richard Steigman-Gall–in his book The Holy Reich–have shown the immense influence of Luther on the Nazis.
darwinianconservatism.blogspot.com/2008/04/connecting-hitler-and-darwin-or-luther.html

and…

Without doubt Richard Steigmann-Gall has undertaken a massive and careful research project to detail comprehensively the way Nazism touched and drew upon especially Germany’s Protestant heritage. His archive work is impressive and the text’s story is pieced together with both thought and art…More unusually it also discusses possible connections between Christianity and Nazi social policy, which centred around the creation of a Volksgemeinschaft.

I suggest that, for many of its leaders, Nazism was not the result of a ‘Death of God’ in secularized society, but rather a radicalized and singularly horrific attempt to preserve God against secularized society.’ (p. 12)

Steigmann-Gall buttresses his case with a wealth of information drawn from across the period of National Socialism’s existence. Hans Koch remained a card-carrying Christian even after 1945; Josef Goebbels once interpreted Nazism as involved in the struggle of Christianity against Marxism; and Dietrich Eckart used images of Christ on the cross in his work. So the purpose of the author’s discussion becomes the case that many Nazis understood themselves to be the true political expression of Christianity.
history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/housdenM.html

Not hard to find. A lot more data is there, if you look.

---

You are using book reviews as sources. I was quoting from the science research institute that came out of the same research institute that was active during the thiurd reich,
I was quoting from the speeches of the doctor in charge of Hitler’s program for racial purity. I was uncovering the scientists who did the research and provided the rationale for the program.
martin Luther provides propaganda no doubt, but he isn’t the full story. Why can you see one source and not the other? I can.

 

[The_Barbarian]

You are using book reviews as sources.

All scholarly sources, with citations directly from Luther’s writing.

You’ve simply denied the obvious. Darwin denounced that kind of behavior. Luther advocated it. Hitler did it.

This is why Stein’s own people denounced him. By blaming those opposed to the Holocaust, he not only denies the racism and religious bigotry that caused it, he makes excuses for the Nazis.

**Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.**
Anti-Defamation League

And this from the creationist group, “Reasons to Believe”:

**After previewing the promotional materials provided by the movie’s marketers, we were concerned that the movie took an adversarial approach to the scientific community. A number of RTB scholars and staff attended a prerelease screening in Los Angeles recently and confirmed that EXPELLED definitely does take such an approach. The movie draws an analogy between the Berlin wall and the scientific community’s response to intelligent design. By doing so, EXPELLED implicitly argues that the scientific community deems certain questions off-limits, particularly any question about the legitimacy of neo-Darwinian evolution. The movie further argues that academia, the media, and the courts all conspire as “thought police” to oppress any and all dissent from the party line. Clearly some oppression and discrimination have occurred, but the experience of RTB scholars and many of their contacts refutes the movie’s premise that the scientific community systemically and unilaterally fosters these injustices. While individual scientists and institutions have behaved unfairly at times, this charge cannot in all fairness be leveled against the scientific community as a whole…Therefore, we ask all chapter members and volunteers to refrain from endorsing EXPELLED in any official way. This request does not extend to your personal interactions-only to any actions taken in association with or on behalf of Reasons to Believe.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

The RTB Scholar Team **

Few reasonable people can find any way to excuse what Stein has done in “Expelled.”

 

[MaryJohnZ]

From the Holocaust Museum
ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005206
THE PROTESTANT CHURCH

In a further attempt to synchronize religious thought with state policy, the Nazis sought, unsuccessfully, to establish a unified national church. Hitler appointed a Reich Bishop, Ludwig Mueller, who led a “German Christian” movement within the church. Mueller sought to synthesize Nazi ideology and Protestant tradition and to agitate for a “people’s church” based on “good Aryan blood.” This movement had gained 600,000 adherents by the mid-1930s. The Nazi government also attempted to supplant Christian worship with secular Nazi party celebrations which adopted many symbols of religious ritual but instead glorified the party and the Fuehrer. Efforts were also made to dilute clerical influence on religious instruction in the public schools, as well as to curb the activities and influence the curricula of religious schools.

…

Both the Catholic and Protestant churches did speak up on behalf of Jews who had converted to Christianity or for Jews married to members of their churches, and thereby saved some lives. In addition, the churches protested strongly against the Nazi Euthanasia Program and succeeded in limiting its scope. While the Nazi regime subsequently halted the visible element of this program, it continued in secret. Nevertheless, the action of the churches on this issue proved that protest could make an impact on Nazi policy. Nonetheless, neither the Catholic leadership nor the Protestant clerical hierarchy officially protested the persecution of Jews or the horrors of the “Final Solution.”

OTHER CHRISTIAN SECTS

Sectarian groups were considered politically dangerous because of their adventist, millennial, and international tendencies. Some were banned by the Nazi government and most were subject to constant surveillance by the secret police. The sects were an easier target for the government than the major churches. Nazi policy varied by sect. Some, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses (banned in Prussia in 1933) were persecuted and many adherents were incarcerated in concentration camps. Others, such as New Apostolics, Christian Scientists (banned in 1941), and Seventh Day Adventists, experienced intermittent harassment. Finally, some groups, such as the Mormons, were ignored or even viewed with some favor. Virtually all Christian sects were at some point accused of harboring Marxists or other “enemies of Germany.”

---

The Nazi’s may have wrapped themselves in Christian robes but they were nationalists. They were promoting a secular religion but they had to appeal to the people in the country which were predominatly Lutheran or Protestant. They used martin Luther’s writings but they were not Christian in any sense of the word.
As you can see that sought secular power over all the churches, much like the communist regime in China has done today. There is an official Catholic church in China, run by the government, but is it really Catholic?

The people you are quoting are on the net as proponents against conservative Christians who today are fighting against their secular agendas such as homosexual marriages, abortion. They are using this stuff as propaganda to create anti-Christian feelings.
it is just being used today as political propaganda.

In Christ, MaryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

This comes from a site with translated material from a Nazi germany propaganda site. I went to the portion for their youth groups and the first thing I saw was this piece which clearly saw the Nazis viewed Christian Churches as their opponents.
A quick look at the net also revealed that in pre-war Germany many people had lost their Christian beliefs and the german society was more seculariazed. An interesting point considering the condition of our own society today.

---

calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hjhandbuch.htm
Background: This material comes from a booklet of material for Hitler Youth leaders. I translate the sections dealing specifically with race, though to the Nazi mind race and soil (Blut und Boden) were inextricably related. This material provided leaders with the background they needed to convey Nazi racial thinking to young boys.

The source: Fritz Bennecke (ed.), Vom deutschen Volk und seinem Lebensraum, Handbuch für die Schulung in der HJ (Munich: Franz Eher, 1937). Paul Gierlichs is listed is listed as Bearbeiter.

---

On the German People and Its Territory

…

"Even today, National Socialism’s racial thinking has implacable opponents. Freemasonry, Marxism, and the Christian churches make common cause in this matter. World Freemasonry conceals its Jewish plans of world domination behind slogans of “humanity.” The Jew and the Turk can achieve its degrees just as well as the Christian. Marxism has the same goals as Freemasonry. To conceal its true aims, it used the slogan of “Equality, Freedom, and Brotherhood.” Under Jewish leadership, Marxism wants to unite everything “that has a human face.”

The Christian church, above all the Roman Catholic Church, rejects racial thinking by claiming that “All men are equal before God.” All who are of the Christian faith, be they Jew, a Negro from the jungle, or white, are better and more valuable to it than a German who is not a Christian. Saving faith is the only bond.

Proof that the Roman Catholic Church is acting against its better knowledge in rejecting racial thinking is clear from the following facts. There was once a danger that Jesuit goals would be subverted or redirected by Jewish members.The result was a ban on Jews becoming Jesuits. Today, the danger is long past, and the church wants to forget about it.
Why do we find the nonsense about human equality in Freemasonry, Marxism, and the Christian church? All three are more or less striving for world power. They therefore have to be “international.” They can never accept racial, ethnic, or national ties between people without giving up their goals.

Despite these major opponents, however, racial thinking is constantly winning ground. Truth is gradually winning. We need only think of the growing front of countries that are resisting the destructive influence of Jewry. And we recall the immigration laws of many countries that ban Jews or other unwanted groups."

---

This was official party line propaganda. Does that sound like they were just promoting Christian ways of thinking? Clearly they saw traditional Christian religions, especially the Catholic Church as their opponents.

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

I saw this, but couldn’t find another site to corroborate it.
But if it is true then you can surely see how Hitler was establishing a new religion and using hristianity o do it.

"A bible featuring Adolf Hitler’s version of the Ten Commandments has been discovered.

The dictator ordered the book rewritten to remove all references to Jews.

In the Nazi bible, found in a German church, the regime who stole, murdered and plundered their way across Europe scrapped the likes of Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal and Thou shalt not covet your neighbour’s wife.

And Hitler got his theorists to alter the Commandments - and add two more - in a bid to further the Aryan ideal for the book Germans With God.

New “Commandments” included Honour your Fuhrer and your master, Avoid all hypocrisy, and Keep the blood pure and your honour holy.

The book, printed in 1941 and sent thousands of churches, was meant to be essential reading in every home in Nazi Germany alongside Hitler’s autobiography, Mein Kampf.

Hitler hated the church’s teachings, believing they had no place in his vision of Germanic supermen ruling lesser races devoid of “outdated” concepts such as mercy and love.

But he knew the power of the church in Germany and couldn’t banish it overnight. Instead, his plan was to gradually “Nazify” the church, beginning with a theological centre he set up in 1939 to rewrite the Bible.

He appointed professors to work on the Nazi version and remove all references to Jews and compassion.

But more important for Hitler was the eradication of Jewish words, including Hallelujah, Jehovah and even Jerusalem, which became “the eternal city of God”.

Hitler, in a memo, said: “The book will have to serve the fight against the immortal Jewish enemy.”

Christians are believed to have destroyed most copies."

theworldimho.blogspot.com/2006/08/hitlers-bible-and-12-commandments.html