Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

[The_Barbarian]

I had a copy of REDUCING THE RISK at my house I was able to look at the different lessons. Me and other mothers met and we talked tyo students in the classes. That is how I know what was in the program. I don’t knoweverything said in the classroom. But you also have said parents can’t be blocked from classrooms and they have been in Massachusetts for example. That is not my state…but an example state.

A parent can be blocked from classrooms for a number of reasons, including court order in divorce cases, crimes committed on school property or elsewhere, and so on. But I don’t know of a state that bans parents from classrooms as a group.

It certainly isn’t true in Massachusetts:
*** Be aware of the Curriculum Frameworks and find out how they are being used in your child’s classroom. Try some sample MCAS test questions at home with your child.
* Talk with your child’s teacher. Send in notes to the teacher about the progress and problems your child is having.
* Attend school council meetings, classroom special events, and other school events.
* Volunteer to assist on field trips, hiring committees, fundraising events.
* Start a parent newsletter in your school and get everyone involved. If your school has an established newsletter, make sure it reflects various concerns of parents.
* Find out how well your school district did on MCAS in math, science and technology.
* Locate the parent leaders in the community and the school to help you advocate for your child.**
doe.mass.edu/mcas/mits.html

Website of the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education.

Someone’s been lying to you, Mary.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

A parent can be blocked from classrooms for a number of reasons, including court order in divorce cases, crimes committed on school property or elsewhere, and so on. But I don’t know of a state that bans parents from classrooms as a group.

It certainly isn’t true in Massachusetts:
*** Be aware of the Curriculum Frameworks and find out how they are being used in your child’s classroom. Try some sample MCAS test questions at home with your child.
* Talk with your child’s teacher. Send in notes to the teacher about the progress and problems your child is having.
* Attend school council meetings, classroom special events, and other school events.
* Volunteer to assist on field trips, hiring committees, fundraising events.
* Start a parent newsletter in your school and get everyone involved. If your school has an established newsletter, make sure it reflects various concerns of parents.
* Find out how well your school district did on MCAS in math, science and technology.
* Locate the parent leaders in the community and the school to help you advocate for your child.**
doe.mass.edu/mcas/mits.html

Website of the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education.

Someone’s been lying to you, Mary.

Massachusetts! Isn’t that the state where the parent was escorted by police out of the school when he objected to them using the book about gay parents/families in kindergarten?
And isn’t that the state where 17 girls went to the school counselor for pregnancy tests and complained or showed signs of being unhappy when the tests were negative, and I would bet anything the parents were never notified because the teschool considered the teens ‘adults’ or at least as having medical privacy in that area. No…schools have been separating children and parents in this area for awhile.

here are some other gems:

On March 19, 1996, a public school in East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania made 59 sixth-grade girls submit to a genital examination as part of a routine physical. The school did not ask for parental consent. During the exam, school officials blocked the exit doors and refused to let the crying and pleading young girls call their parents.

• In Stephens County, Georgia, parents were shocked to discover that their fourteen- and fifteen-year-old daughters had been driven to a birth control clinic by a public school staff member without their knowledge. The county clinic administered AIDS tests and Pap smears to the girls and gave them birth control pills and condoms. The school denied parents access to the test results and defended its actions on the grounds that the counselor believed that she was doing what was best for the girls.

• The Pacific Justice Institute filed a lawsuit on behalf of parents against the Novato [California] Unified School District for authorizing pro‑homosexual presentations without any prior notice or consent. According to the Pacific Justice Institute Press Release, “The presentations entitled “Cootie Shots,” exposed elementary school children as young as seven years old with skits containing gay and lesbian overtures. The presentations were followed by question and answer sessions about what constitutes ‘normal’ families and acceptance of those who choose the homosexual lifestyle.” 6 (see Notes in “Public Schools, Public Menace”)

• Carol (last name withheld for privacy), a schoolteacher, couldn’t believe what she was being asked to teach in her sex education class. The curriculum forced her to show second-graders pictures of nude boys and girls and ask them to name body parts. School authorities told Carol and her fellow elementary school teachers that there were no absolute moral rules, so she shouldn’t be concerned about what she had to teach the children.

education-facts.com/education/Public_School_Sex-Education_Classes_—_Bad_News_For_Parents.htm

If I have been lied to then so has every parent in our education system. Also, note that your quote said “groups of parents”, in other words if one parent wants to sit in on the class they would be blocked.

My concern is parents not having any (name removed by moderator)ut on curriculum, especially in that area. parents I know have been afraid to complain or cause ‘trouble’ for fear of reprisals against their children in the schools. Also, the schools are very good at making a ‘show’ of listening or allowing parent (name removed by moderator)ut but in actuality the education establishment makes the decisions around parents, not with them.

You, sir, are probably part of the problem because you are co-operating with these people and as a scientist providing them with cover to allow these terrible programs in the schools.

As a scietist you should know better.

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[MaryJohnZ]

BTW, you were going to tell me which state your school is in; if you do so, I can probably get you the curriculum in detail (that you claim the school won’t let you see).

I SAW THE CURRICULUM, “Reducing the Risk”…but they put out reams of materials and say they use a lot of different things…and thus get out of being specific. Believe me these people know how to cover their tracks.

Just tell me the state, and I’ll be able to help you get that information so you can pass it on to us. I really want to see the evidence for your claims.

I don’t want to tell you my location as this is a public forum and
I don’t believe that is wise.

I do know the person who works with the state and has a hands on position when it comes to knowing how abstinence money is being used and that is why I know that it isn’t being put into the classrooms. The state admits it is not teaching teens to be abstinent until marriage. The preferred approach is the Planned parenthood ‘comprehensive sex’ appraoch which you seem to applaude and which I think is a crime against these young people.
How you ever got any idea I would approve these programs is beyond me. I believe in the abstinence until marriage approach.

HOW ABOUT PROVIDING THE NAME FOR YOUR CURRICULUM? I provided that at least. Seems like I am more upfront then you on this…

In Christ, maryJohnz

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian suggests:
BTW, you were going to tell me which state your school is in; if you do so, I can probably get you the curriculum in detail (that you claim the school won’t let you see).

I SAW THE CURRICULUM,

So why the claim that they wouldn’t let you see it?

Barbarian asks again:
Just tell me the state, and I’ll be able to help you get that information so you can pass it on to us. I really want to see the evidence for your claims.

I don’t want to tell you my location as this is a public forum and I don’t believe that is wise.

You’re nervous about telling us what state you live in? :

HOW ABOUT PROVIDING THE NAME FOR YOUR CURRICULUM? I provided that at least. Seems like I am more upfront then you on this…

I’ve answered enough questions for now, and you’ve dodged more than is reasonable. I asked a reasonable question, and you’re telling us that it might be bad if we know what state you live in.

I think everyone gets the picture, Mary.
I

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian on parents being blocked from classrooms:
A parent can be blocked from classrooms for a number of reasons, including court order in divorce cases, crimes committed on school property or elsewhere, and so on. But I don’t know of a state that bans parents from classrooms as a group.

It certainly isn’t true in Massachusetts:
*** Be aware of the Curriculum Frameworks and find out how they are being used in your child’s classroom. Try some sample MCAS test questions at home with your child.

• Talk with your child’s teacher. Send in notes to the teacher about the progress and problems your child is having.
• Attend school council meetings, classroom special events, and other school events.
• Volunteer to assist on field trips, hiring committees, fundraising events.
• Start a parent newsletter in your school and get everyone involved. If your school has an established newsletter, make sure it reflects various concerns of parents.
• Find out how well your school district did on MCAS in math, science and technology.
• Locate the parent leaders in the community and the school to help you advocate for your child.**
  doe.mass.edu/mcas/mits.html

Website of the Massachusetts Department of Elementary and Secondary Education.

Someone’s been lying to you, Mary.

Massachusetts! Isn’t that the state where the parent was escorted by police out of the school when he objected to them using the book about gay parents/families in kindergarten?

Depends on what he did to “object”, I suppose. Got a checkable source?

And isn’t that the state where 17 girls went to the school counselor for pregnancy tests and complained or showed signs of being unhappy when the tests were negative,

Turns out that one was actually a hoax.

BOSTON — Well now, isn’t that a relief. The infamous “pregnancy pact” at Gloucester (Mass.) High School turns out to be an urban legend. The media mobs that descended on the fishing town may now pack up their cameras and their moral outrage.
chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5861523.html

But what does that have to do with parents being allowed to see classes in the school?

here are some other gems:

Don’t see any that have anything to do with Massachusetts and parents sitting in on classes. Do you have anything that actually supports your case, Mary?

• Carol (last name withheld for privacy), a schoolteacher, couldn’t believe what she was being asked to teach in her sex education class. The curriculum forced her to show second-graders pictures of nude boys and girls and ask them to name body parts. School authorities told Carol and her fellow elementary school teachers that there were no absolute moral rules, so she shouldn’t be concerned about what she had to teach the children.
education-facts.com/education…or_Parents.htm

Regrettably, your link leads to an allegation, but no checkable source. I think I know why.

If I have been lied to then so has every parent in our education system.

As you learned, they lied to you about parents being banned from public school classes in Massachusetts. In fact, the state education agency encourages it.

Also, note that your quote said “groups of parents”, in other words if one parent wants to sit in on the class they would be blocked.

No. It says nothing about only groups being allowed.

My concern is parents not having any (name removed by moderator)ut on curriculum,

Note that Massachusetts encourage parent (name removed by moderator)ut.

You, sir, are probably part of the problem because you are co-operating with these people and as a scientist providing them with cover to allow these terrible programs in the schools.

I’m still stunned that you think reducing teen pregnancies and STDs is “terrible.”

As a scietist you should know better.

As a parent and a human, I think children should not have to go through such things. We’ll just have to disagree on that, Mary.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

So does religion. So does sports. So does greed.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Here is an article about how comprehensive sex education breaks down the healthy aspects of sexuality (a sense that sexuality belongs in a monogomous, loving relationship with trust and respect) and leads to abberrant behaviours and relationships.

"Regarding morality, values and standards, sex educators teach students to distrust the values and morals of parents and the Judaeo-Christian religions. The educators encourage inexperienced youths to develop their own values that, in fact, consist of having no values at all. Students are led to believe that values simply entail enjoying what you do and do what you enjoy.

Should one feel that these statements about the values and standards promoted by sex educators are exaggerated or atypical, an examination of any ordinary “sex education teacher’s guide and resource manual” should be made–as for example, the manuals provided to schools by Planned Parenthood. The section on “Sexuality and Values” in these manuals discusses three topics only.

One topic is “Human Sexual Responses” which is based on the reports of 300 or so “paid volunteers” and prostitutes used by Masters and Johnson to engage in sex acts while monitored by viewers and electronic devices.

The second topic discussed in the “Sexuality and Values” section is Masturbation. The masturbation discussion consists of explaining and sanctioning all forms of masturbation that lead to orgasmic emissions. If parents object to open masturbation, students are told to masturbate more privately in order to avoid family arguments.

The third and final topic discussed in “Sexuality and Values” – a section that is supposed to give young people better values than established ’ ones – is homosexuality. Homosexuality is taught as a normal variation. The manuals advise sex teachers to bring homosexuals into the classroom to give students first-hand information about how homosexuals conduct themselves sexually. Students are taught that the homosexual’s oral-genital sex acts, his oral-anal acts, and his mutual- and self-masturbation are normal and beneficial."

For more information on how devastating these programs are on teens go to:

A Psychoanalic view of sex education in the schools.

all.org/stopp/anchell.htm

This is a situation where science is used wrongly to support programs that kill mind, spirit and body of our young people.
Barbarian you should be ashamed of supporting these programs.

CSE (comprehensive sex education0 advocates claim that contraception reduces the demand for abortion. Yet four decades of data shows this to be a myth. These advocates present a false dilema - it’s either contraception or abortion, but that’s simply not the case. Consider the following points:

• As contraceptives became increasingly available to teens during the 60s and 70s, the percentage of women aged 15-19 who ever engaged in premarital sex continued to rise. The figures rose from 30.4% in 1971 to 43.4% in 1976, and rose again to 49.8 % in 1979. [3]
• As the number of younger and younger teens became sexually active, and as both married and unmarried women had increasing access to contraception, the abortion rates rose.
• In 1972, the abortion rate for all women aged 15-19 was 19.1 per 1000 women (including married women). This figure jumped to 34.3 in 1976, and to 42.4 in 1979. [4]

More recently, abortion rates have dropped. Contrary to the claims of contraception advocates, the recent declines in the abortion rate for minors was caused by parental involvement laws and not contraception. More information on this topic can be found in the study Analyzing the Effect of State Legislation on the Incidence of Abortion Among Minors. "

respectfamilyvalues.com/

In Christ, maryJohnZpre

 

[MaryJohnZ]

AMEN! Alleluia! Finally Colorado may do what should have been done a long time ago…pray for this to pass.

Science has failed to give us a definition even though the facts are there that life starts at conception.

"It’s been 35 years since that infamous decision was handed down, and on Nov. 4 voters in Colorado will decide whether to add an amendment to the state constitution stating that “the term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include any human being from the moment of conception.” It will be Amendment 48 on the ballot but is more commonly known as the Personhood Amendment, and it is the first time in U.S. history that citizens will vote on such a proposal.

The amendment takes aim at Roe without even mentioning the word “abortion” and marks a new strategy in the nationwide abortion debate.

Let’s all pray for this to pass.

In Christ, maryJohnz

 

[reggieM]

AMEN! Alleluia! Finally Colorado may do what should have been done a long time ago…pray for this to pass.

Science has failed to give us a definition even though the facts are there that life starts at conception.

"It’s been 35 years since that infamous decision was handed down, and on Nov. 4 voters in Colorado will decide whether to add an amendment to the state constitution stating that “the term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include any human being from the moment of conception.” It will be Amendment 48 on the ballot but is more commonly known as the Personhood Amendment, and it is the first time in U.S. history that citizens will vote on such a proposal.

The amendment takes aim at Roe without even mentioning the word “abortion” and marks a new strategy in the nationwide abortion debate.

Let’s all pray for this to pass.

In Christ, maryJohnz

This is wonderful news. Thank you!

 

[The_Barbarian]

And perhaps, now that we have concluded that Stein’s lies were indefensible, we can close on agreeing at last on something. The Personhood Amendment sounds like a good idea to me, too.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

And perhaps, now that we have concluded that Stein’s lies were indefensible, we can close on agreeing at last on something. The Personhood Amendment sounds like a good idea to me, too.

I feel we are at an impass in the discussion. I do not agree that Ben Stein lied intentionally although I think he worded his statement wrongly. Good science does not kill but supports and is consistent with faith. Bad science, not tied to truth, will have the consequence of leading to false values and actions, especially if it undermiines a universal truth about man’s place and repobsibility and dignity in creation.

But I am amendable to closing the discussion as I don’t think furthering it will change any opinions either way.

I am glad we can leave on a positive note, all supporting the idea of the Personhood Amendment.

In Christ,
MaryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

I feel we are at an impass in the discussion. I do not agree that Ben Stein lied intentionally although I think he worded his statement wrongly.

That’s a beginning at least.

Good science does not kill but supports and is consistent with faith. Bad science, not tied to truth, will have the consequence of leading to false values and actions, especially if it undermiines a universal truth about man’s place and repobsibility and dignity in creation.

Good science is true and supportable by evidence. Bad science is not true, and the evidence does not support it. There is no ethical dimension to the truth other than it is what it is, and it is good.

What people do with it, may be good or evil, but that does not convert the truth to evil; it merely shows that we are capable of using the truth to commit evil.

I am glad we can leave on a positive note, all supporting the idea of the Personhood Amendment.

Amen.

 

[Wirraway]

AMEN! Alleluia! Finally Colorado may do what should have been done a long time ago…pray for this to pass.

Science has failed to give us a definition even though the facts are there that life starts at conception.

"It’s been 35 years since that infamous decision was handed down, and on Nov. 4 voters in Colorado will decide whether to add an amendment to the state constitution stating that “the term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include any human being from the moment of conception.” It will be Amendment 48 on the ballot but is more commonly known as the Personhood Amendment, and it is the first time in U.S. history that citizens will vote on such a proposal.

The amendment takes aim at Roe without even mentioning the word “abortion” and marks a new strategy in the nationwide abortion debate.

Let’s all pray for this to pass.

In Christ, maryJohnz

will this survive a constitutional challenge? state law trumping federal constitutional law doesn’t sound like a viable proposition.

 

[The_Barbarian]

will this survive a constitutional challenge? state law trumping federal constitutional law doesn’t sound like a viable proposition.

You’re right. It won’t change a thing, legally. But pro-life will succeed by changing hearts and minds, not by force of law.

And this is a step forward in that. Not because it will force the Supreme Court to back down, but because it is one more step to making Roe vs. Wade irrelevant.

And when it is overturned, it will be a formality.

 

[Wirraway]

will this survive a constitutional challenge? state law trumping federal constitutional law doesn’t sound like a viable proposition.

You’re right. It won’t change a thing, legally. But pro-life will succeed by changing hearts and minds, not by force of law.

And this is a step forward in that. Not because it will force the Supreme Court to back down, but because it is one more step to making Roe vs. Wade irrelevant.

And when it is overturned, it will be a formality.

I agree 100% on the hearts and minds issue and as a tactic the proposition sounds good. I doubt the challenge would reach the USSC.

 

[Geremia]

As a Catholic scientist, I am deeply offended and angered by Stein’s diatribe, and will now boycott his film. I hope all other religious scientists and anyone else who believes that science is a valuable tool for understanding our world will do the same. Thank you for bringing his disturbing beliefs to our attention.

Science and religion have two different ends. One is to understand the physical world, and the other is to glorify God. As St. Thomas Aquinas says, the physical sciences are handmaids to the ultimate science, theology; thus science and religion do not have equal footing; science is subordinate to religion.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Science and religion have two different ends. One is to understand the physical world, and the other is to glorify God. As St. Thomas Aquinas says, the physical sciences are handmaids to the ultimate science, theology; thus science and religion do not have equal footing; science is subordinate to religion.

Thank you Geremia,
That says it perfectly. I don’t understand people who think they can separate God from the physical world He created. I don’t understand how they can think religion is not relevant to understanding the order of creation. the separation of the two distorts truth rather than helps truth.Scientists who insist on this strict separation ( to the point that science is not subordinate to theology) would keep all of us in a dark age of unbelief.

In Christ, maryJohnZ

 

[The_Barbarian]

That says it perfectly. I don’t understand people who think they can separate God from the physical world He created. I don’t understand how they can think religion is not relevant to understanding the order of creation. the separation of the two distorts truth rather than helps truth.Scientists who insist on this strict separation ( to the point that science is not subordinate to theology) would keep all of us in a dark age of unbelief.

The irony is that the dark ages occurred precisely when science was censored in the name of God. It isn’t just blasphemous to do that; it’s damaging to faith and progress.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

The irony is that the dark ages occurred precisely when science was censored in the name of God. It isn’t just blasphemous to do that; it’s damaging to faith and progress.

The trouble here is that you think the Middle Ages were the “dark ages” because of a confrontation of church with science and yet you overlook the wisdom that did abound in that time period and which was lost during the enlightenment: a wisdom which saw God as the organizing force of the Universe. I think time will show that we have lived through a ‘dark age’ during the 20th century and that someof the wisdom that was so present in the Middle Ages, which we are now blind to, will again light the world. I believe we have sunk to new levels of ‘garbage’ in the way the human person is viewed in the past century and in some scienrtific circles today.
That is truly blasphemous.

MJZ

 

[reggieM]

The trouble here is that you think the Middle Ages were the “dark ages” because of a confrontation of church with science and yet you overlook the wisdom that did abound in that time period and which was lost during the enlightenment: a wisdom which saw God as the organizing force of the Universe.

The so called Dark Ages produced many of the greatest saints that the world has ever known.

I think time will show that we have lived through a ‘dark age’ during the 20th century and that someof the wisdom that was so present in the Middle Ages, which we are now blind to, will again light the world.

I fully agree.

I believe we have sunk to new levels of ‘garbage’ in the way the human person is viewed in the past century and in some scienrtific circles today.
That is truly blasphemous.

Indeed, that is correct – and Darwinian theory is much to blame for the way the human person is devalued.