Ben Stein: Science Leads to Killing People

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buffalo said:
The caveat is that only science should be taught in the science classroom. Leveling the playing field in a way that children think they are getting the whole truth but not is fundamentally flawed.
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We live in a fallen world my friend.

Who sets these stipulations? But man… self centered “modern man” at that.
Wasn’t this way not to long ago?

Science “can” indirectly or, maybe one day even directly lead to evidence of ID. Maybe not physical proof, but certainly metaphysical evidence through reason (utilize Occam’s razor)

I clearly trust and discern the truth in Gods’ words.
Parents can help with the “getting the whole truth part”
 
Icarus said:
We live in a fallen world my friend.

Who sets these stipulations? But man… self centered “modern man” at that.
Wasn’t this way not to long ago?

Science “can” indirectly or, maybe one day even directly lead to evidence of ID. Maybe not physical proof, but certainly metaphysical evidence through reason (utilize Occam’s razor)

I clearly trust and discern the truth in Gods’ words.
Parents can help with the “getting the whole truth part”
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They can’t transmit the truth unless they know it themselves. Most parents right now cannot bring themselves to believe in the supernatural. Scientism is so rampant that they cannot bring themselves to realize there is so much more.

Children must be well trained in metaphysics, philosophy and science. Together they make the whole. They must be able to defend the truth. Today, that is very much lacking.

When a person gets sick who do they trust to heal them?
 
buffalo said:
They can’t transmit the truth unless they know it themselves. Most parents right now cannot bring themselves to believe in the supernatural. Scientism is so rampant that they cannot bring themselves to realize there is so much more.

Children must be well trained in metaphysics, philosophy and science. Together they make the whole. They must be able to defend the truth. Today, that is very much lacking.

When a person gets sick who do they trust to heal them?
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I was referring to those parents who have (and want) God in their life (and at the centre of it) and though many may not be worldly wise (including the many divisions of academia) they do have the word of God as their direction on how to edify themselves and their own family.

Non-believing parents; well that’s a tough one. And that’s where I think ID can help – only in that it will make the kids think & ask questions… and bring those question home to these parents. It’s not ID’s solitary motivation /singular intention to get too profound & heady with these kids & their parents… but just to get them to ask those questions that they would have otherwise never contemplated. Just to put the bug in their ear.

I certainly don’t need to go see Ben Stein’s documentary, I already believe in God.
But I would have taken my 10-YO daughter (If it was playing in Canada…lol) it’s way better than the CraaP that kids go see today . All l I’m saying is that, when including ID in the science syllabus, it can’t make things worse in these schools (culture)…can it?
When a person gets sick who do they trust to heal them
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A doctor.

What about when a person realizes they are about to die. Who do they trust then?
 
Icarus said:
I was referring to those parents who have (and want) God in their life (and at the centre of it) and though many may not be worldly wise (including the many divisions of academia) they do have the word of God as their direction on how to edify themselves and their own family.

Non-believing parents; well that’s a tough one. And that’s where I think ID can help – only in that it will make the kids think & ask questions… and bring those question home to these parents. It’s not ID’s solitary motivation /singular intention to get too profound & heady with these kids & their parents… but just to get them to ask those questions that they would have otherwise never contemplated. Just to put the bug in their ear.

I certainly don’t need to go see Ben Stein’s documentary, I already believe in God.
But I would have taken my 10-YO daughter (If it was playing in Canada…lol) it’s way better than the CraaP that kids go see today . All l I’m saying is that, when including ID in the science syllabus, it can’t make things worse in these schools (culture)…can it?

A doctor.

What about when a person realizes they are about to die. Who do they trust then?
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Right on! A doctor/science. That is the dichotomy.
 
Let me expand on my answer. So you don’t misunderstand.

I trust God first to heal me (if he chooses) Maybe God has a greater purpose; like instruction, or a revelation for me… through the suffering

I trust a doctor only in informing me on what’s ailing me, and to be up to date with the latest treatments available. Period.

But you still have not Answered my Q
 
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Polaris said
Sadly he will not, but at least he will have a sea named after himself.
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Dear Polaris,

Your 2 cents clearly shows “your” mature worth.
Pun intended!!!

Ironically enough, Polaris is far above your head and is also a clear indication of how far you are from reason.

Nuff said.
 
jaxson said:
corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=

In an interview with the Trinity Broadcasting Network, Ben Stein said the following amazing thing in an interview with Paul Crouch, Jr.
Code: 
Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers *, talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed ... that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

Crouch: That’s right.

Stein: ... Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

Crouch: Good word, good word.
(Full video here tbn.org/video_portal/*)

Perhaps Stein should have said “denial of God and absolute morals leads to killing people”
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Parents have rights to bring up their children with their values.
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True. They don’t have the right to insist that the government promote their values, however.
parents pay for education systems and they have a right to have a say in curriculums.
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Indeed, they elect school boards to do that. However, school boards are obligated to obey the Constitution.
So you will allow Planned Parenthood programs to be paid for by the governemt, in our schools, and claim that someone is not forcing their values on the rest of us?
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If they don’t allow you to opt your child out of the program, I’d say so. Schools have to allow those with religious objections, to opt out of anything they find objectionable.
I think you are not seeing reality if you think the playing field is even.
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It has been in all the districts I’ve been associated with.
 
The_Barbarian said:
It works pretty well. Some ID stuff is probably enough to amount to promoting religion. The state puts so much in the curriculum, I get about a week of evolution, so I can’t put much time on ID, Mayan creation stories, etc.
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Barbarian, my sons receive in their Dominican Catholic school plenty of evolution in their science classes, and plenty of religious literature in their religion and culture classes. They study all sorts of creation stories including African, Chinese, Pacific Islander, Hebrew (Genesis), Ancient Near Easter (the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh), Mayan (Popol Vuh) and Native North American, etc. It’s a wonderful curriculum that prepares them for high school in a way that ID and YEC do not. Too many kids raised on “Creationism” end up abandoning their faith when they mature and realize that the rest of the world does not believe as narrowly as they do. The problem is they are abandoning a misunderstood Catholic faith. ID produces atheists, in my experience.

Petrus
 
buffalo said:
How can you know this? How long has the ID movement been around? Interesting…
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I know it because I work for an organization that in turn works with citizen science advocacy groups in states around the country (Michigan, Ohio, Texas, Florida). I’ve had arguments about religion with more than one atheistic science advocate who describes himself or herself as a “recovering Catholic” or a “recovering religious believer.” When I press them on what they are recovering from, I learn that frequently it is a simplistic intelligent-design type or biblical literalist religious belief.

When in turn I point out that intelligent design in no way accurately represents Catholic (or other Christian) theology, they usually back down and concede that in attacking ID or YEC Christianity they are attacking a straw person.

Petrus
 
drpmjhess said:
I know it because I work for an organization that in turn works with citizen science advocacy groups in states around the country (Michigan, Ohio, Texas, Florida). I’ve had arguments about religion with more than one atheistic science advocate who describes himself or herself as a “recovering Catholic” or a “recovering religious believer.” When I press them on what they are recovering from, I learn that frequently it is a simplistic intelligent-design type or biblical literalist religious belief.

When in turn I point out that intelligent design in no way accurately represents Catholic (or other Christian) theology, they usually back down and concede that in attacking ID or YEC Christianity they are attacking a straw person.

Petrus
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There is another thing that turns people into atheists. Lack of faith and an unwillingness to believe in the supernatural.
 
Isn’t that like saying a compulsion to drink is what turns people into alcoholics?
 
drpmjhess said:
Could be. Of course, “unwillingness to believe in the supernatural” has no necessary connection with science.
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I believe that the sky is green. If I can get scientists to start saying that and repeating it over and over for a generation or so, those people will be saying it and believing it.

Many of those in the next generations will believe it to be green. Some will say why did we teach it was blue in the past? Well of course they will say " we have increased our knowledge".

By the same token, whether by design or not the supernatural is constantly ridiculed and downplayed ( we do search for natural explanations first, and we should) the way it is framed casts doubt in people’s minds. Here again scientism triumphs.
 
buffalo said:
I believe that the sky is green. If I can get scientists to start saying that and repeating it over and over for a generation or so, those people will be saying it and believing it.

Many of those in the next generations will believe it to be green. Some will say why did we teach it was blue in the past? Well of course they will say " we have increased our knowledge".

By the same token, whether by design or not the supernatural is constantly ridiculed and downplayed ( we do search for natural explanations first, and we should) the way it is framed casts doubt in people’s minds. Here again scientism triumphs.
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This is a poor example. We call the sky “blue” because that is the name we have given to the color perceived by our brains. We perceive this color due to the atmospheric absorption and scattering of light waves. The “blue” wavelength is absorbed and scattered best by the atmosphere, thus we perceive this wavelength. I don’t know how the name “blue” came to be given. We could rename it “green”, but that doesn’t change the science behind the phenomenon.

Besides, I think you give us scientists too much credit. Most people think we’re a bunch of crackpots. Just read some of the threads about science and scientists on these boards.
 
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