Beneath the child abuse scandal [NCRep]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kscrawler
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Adeodatus said:
The reference to Andrew Greeley was a red flag.

There’s an agenda at work here. It’s another one for the “Don’t [pee] in my ear and tell me it’s raining” file.

Liberals, Communists and sodomites get into positions of influence. Inevitably, their misdeeds are exposed. Then, Liberals Communists and sodomites come along and say that the whole problem is the Church’s opposition to Liberals, Communists and sodomites.

You can see a symptom of this moral/mental illness in the comments section. The proposed solution to clerical sodomy? More sex! Just make it legal… let priests have sex, let there be openly gay priests, let the women get in on the action, etc.

The one and only solution to the problem is the one that Liberals, Communists and sodomites are dead set against: having priests who actually believe in the teachings of the Catholic Faith. Oh, no… to suggest that is to be some caveman who wants to go back to the dark ages of 1961.

Have a look at the book “Goodbye, Good Men”. Why did the seminaries become gay sex palaces? Hint: not because of Conservatives.
Click to expand...
I’ve come back from my self imposed exile to say this is crazy thinking.
 
Kscrawler said:
I rarely put much credence in what I read in the National Catholic Reporter. But this recent article seemed to have the ring of truth. It may be that Sipes may have an agenda, but that still doesn’t mean he is wrong. Can anyone add some context to this article?

ncronline.org/news/accountability/beneath-child-abuse-scandal
Click to expand...
I read the article this morning. I started clicking on links from the article and further investigated the article. I think its true and we have to figure out a way to deal with it. From the people i know who were in the seminary but later decided not to becaome priests, it is accurate.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
I’ve come back from my self imposed exile to say this is crazy thinking.
Click to expand...
For what particular reason? One can examine a plethora of horror stories involving the post-conciliar Church. Although the ones I always found bothersome involved the rejection and dismissing of orthodox Catholics from the seminary as Alan55 mentioned, albeit his story is regarding a religious order.
 
PA650 said:
For what particular reason? One can examine a plethora of horror stories involving the post-conciliar Church. Although the ones I always found bothersome involved the rejection and dismissing of orthodox Catholics from the seminary as Alan55 mentioned, albeit his story is regarding a religious order.
Click to expand...
I felt it was crazy talking because the author suggest it was liberal, communist attacks. The liberals don’t disparage the gays. There’s no need to pretend you are something other than you are. It is a conservative agenda that abhors gays and so many gay people, themselves, speak out against who they are. An example of this thing would be …
 
Rascalking said:
Oh, I’d agree with that. I admit I was just pulling the numbers out of the air.
Click to expand...
Until someone else posts a serious study with different numbers, I don’t see any reason to doubt the results of Sipe’s work. Moreover he is greatly respected by many who work with and counsel priests. Pulling numbers out of the air doesn’t seem to be much more than an exercise in wishful thinking whilst sticking one’s head in the sand.

As someone else pointed out, the 50% number is an American number. The presumption, which does not have same kind of data to support it that the American study does, is that the number is actually higher in Europe.

Finally, I don’t necessarily see this as an unrealistic number or even the kind of number that suggests that priests are not making an effort to be celibate. Compare 50% celibacy at any given time to the number adult Americans who are celibate at any given time. 50% suggests significant self-discipline on the part of Catholic priests, not gross negligence. We are not talking about moderation and self-control like we do with other biological drives (e.g., eating while avoiding gluttony)…that would be marriage (I wonder what percentage of American married persons are chaste at any given time?). We are talking about the attempt, by the priest, to completely eliminate sexual activity.
 
invocation said:
Until someone else posts a serious study with different numbers, I don’t see any reason to doubt the results of Sipe’s work. Moreover he is greatly respected by many who work with and counsel priests. Pulling numbers out of the air doesn’t seem to be much more than an exercise in wishful thinking whilst sticking one’s head in the sand.

As someone else pointed out, the 50% number is an American number. The presumption, which does not have same kind of data to support it that the American study does, is that the number is actually higher in Europe.

Finally, I don’t necessarily see this as an unrealistic number or even the kind of number that suggests that priests are not making an effort to be celibate. Compare 50% celibacy at any given time to the number adult Americans who are celibate at any given time. 50% suggests significant self-discipline on the part of Catholic priests, not gross negligence. We are not talking about moderation and self-control like we do with other biological drives (e.g., eating while avoiding gluttony)…that would be marriage (I wonder what percentage of American married persons are chaste at any given time?). We are talking about the attempt, by the priest, to completely eliminate sexual activity.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear on my side-I never said any number I was quoting was “serious”. I admit I totally pulled it out of the air! I have NO idea whatsoever how many of our priests are sexually active.
 
Phemie said:
I think we are deluding ourselves if we think that the number is low. We are not taking into consideration the different cultures around the world. I don’t get the impression that other cultures make a big deal out of it like we do. The priest from my parish who was sent back to his country when one of his two mistresses came forward didn’t even seem embarrassed.
Click to expand...
My assistant pastor was sent home to Poland when his mistress with child came forward.
 
Phemie said:
The priest from my parish who was sent back to his country when one of his two mistresses came forward didn’t even seem embarrassed.
Click to expand...
I personally know of three priests who were “sent away” when it was discovered that they were sleeping with women from the parish. In one case, the woman was married.

I’m getting tired of hearing about the scandals, but there certainly is some sort of problem going on, and I don’t think it’s necessarily purely a “gay thing”. After all, celibacy counts regardless of “sexual orientation”, so their being gay isn’t the problem. The problem is that they aren’t celibate.

Women priests is certainly not the answer, though. That is an oxymoron. And then we’d just end up with a bunch of sexually incontinent lesbians instead of sexually incontinent gay men.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
I felt it was crazy talking because the author suggest it was liberal, communist attacks. The liberals don’t disparage the gays. There’s no need to pretend you are something other than you are. It is a conservative agenda that abhors gays and so many gay people, themselves, speak out against who they are. An example of this thing would be …
Click to expand...
I think you missed my point. Liberals, Communists and sodomites infiltrate the clergy for various reasons. Then for example the sexual misconduct of the sodomites is outed. Then we hear other sodomites claiming that the whole problem is that we don’t allow it in the first place. Same with the Liberals: Liberal dissenters go into the priesthood, sleep around, and then other Liberals say that the problem is the rule of celibacy.

No, the problem is these evildoers sneaking into the clergy in the first place. But this is a common Liberal tactic: create a problem, then blame it on the other side and use it to stir up more dissent.
 
PA650 said:
For what particular reason? One can examine a plethora of horror stories involving the Church today. Although the ones I always found bothersome involved the rejection and dismissing of orthodox Catholics from the seminary as Alan55 mentioned, albeit his story is regarding a religious order.
Click to expand...
 
Adeodatus said:
I think you missed my point. Liberals, Communists and sodomites infiltrate the clergy for various reasons. Then for example the sexual misconduct of the sodomites is outed. Then we hear other sodomites claiming that the whole problem is that we don’t allow it in the first place. Same with the Liberals: Liberal dissenters go into the priesthood, sleep around, and then other Liberals say that the problem is the rule of celibacy.

No, the problem is these evildoers sneaking into the clergy in the first place. But this is a common Liberal tactic: create a problem, then blame it on the other side and use it to stir up more dissent.
Click to expand...
I’ll tell what it’s not. It’s neither labels of Liberals, Communists, Sodomites, Fascists, Gay, Lesbians, Transgenders, Socialists etc.,etc…- I hope I didn’t leave anyone out - but what it really is; is the spirit of the Anti-Christ and demonic strategy that is invading the Church at this time…as one exorcists stated the ‘smoke of Satan is in the Vatican’. If you were a strategists the easiest way to bring down an organization is from within, a fifth column. Place them where they do the most harm in teaching positions within the seminaries of the Church so Satan can spread evil throughout the Church. What you are seeing is an all out demonic attack within and without the Church.The writings of past saints revealed this would occur as we see the fast approaching of Day of the Lord . Look up for your Redemption draws nigh
 
Are folks equating married priests with a slippery slope to women’s ordination, normalizing homosexuality, and being pro-abortion?

If so don’t tell that to our Eastern Catholic or Orthodox brothers!:eek:
 
Dave_in_Dallas said:
Are folks equating married priests with a slippery slope to women’s ordination, normalizing homosexuality, and being pro-abortion?

If so don’t tell that to our Eastern Catholic or Orthodox brothers!:eek:
Click to expand...
It’s the NCRep, or more precisely, the comments after the linked article that are making that leap. The “fix” in the minds of many of the NCRep regular readers to the abuse crisis is to allow women to be ordained, lift the restrictions on marriage and to openly allow practicing homosexuals in the Church. :mad: So far, I haven’t seen abortion mentioned in this link but it seems to come up over there in any discussion involving sex.

No one so far has been discussion the Easter Church practices. This has been about Latin rite priests.
 
The crazy thing about that article and the comments that follow is that they think the solution for the Catholic Church is to go down the exact same road as the Episcopalians. It’s just such a middle class North American view of the Church. There aren’t any real civil rights issues left in our society that haven’t been fought (except that of the unborn, but that’s a whole other issue). So we start worrying about women priests and gay marriage and all the other things people didn’t think too much about when there were real problems to worry about.
Imagine if you were a person living in a war ravaged country, just trying to survive, and you turned on the news and saw that our biggest issue in North America was whether two men should be able to get married. We must seem absolutely ridiculous.
 
Actually what I was trying to say is that it appears to me, but I guess I didn’t understand it right, is that many “conservative” (for lack of a better term) RC’s equate the celibacy doctrine with dogma, as if to say that if the RCC starts to allow married priests then the next thing you know we’ll have women ordination and so on…
 
Dave_in_Dallas said:
Actually what I was trying to say is that it appears to me, but I guess I didn’t understand it right, is that many “conservative” (for lack of a better term) RC’s equate the celibacy doctrine with dogma, as if to say that if the RCC starts to allow married priests then the next thing you know we’ll have women ordination and so on…
Click to expand...
I don’t know about that, Dave. Most traditionally-minded (as opposed to “conservative”) Catholics I know are not opposed to married priests - they just don’t see celibacy as the problem. They also, rightly so, see that having a family and a pastorate can be a real burden. Only the super-traditional-remove-anything-VII-related Catholics are completely opposed to married priests.

When it comes to the ordination of women, homosexuals, etc., all you need to do is look at the comments from the NCR readers. The more modernist-minded Catholics are more likely to be in favor of those things. So, it’s not as much married priests leading to the others - it is the anti-celibacy mindset that leads modernists to favor the others…
 
The concept of a celibate priest often clashes with reality. Men are endowed with a near insatiable sex drive from nature, which the priesthood is supposed to mitigate through various methods, which clearly fail quite often.

What is the solution? I don’t think anyone has an obvious one. If you allow married priests will they just cuckhold their wives like many other men do? I don’t know. Extremely difficult to think of a good solution.
 
Ecoclimber said:
I’ll tell what it’s not. It’s neither labels of Liberals, Communists, Sodomites, Fascists, Gay, Lesbians, Transgenders, Socialists etc.,etc…- I hope I didn’t leave anyone out - but what it really is; is the spirit of the Anti-Christ and demonic strategy that is invading the Church at this time…as one exorcists stated the ‘smoke of Satan is in the Vatican’. If you were a strategists the easiest way to bring down an organization is from within, a fifth column. Place them where they do the most harm in teaching positions within the seminaries of the Church so Satan can spread evil throughout the Church. What you are seeing is an all out demonic attack within and without the Church.The writings of past saints revealed this would occur as we see the fast approaching of Day of the Lord . Look up for your Redemption draws nigh
Click to expand...
While the second coming could in fact be near, and that is the joyfull hope of believers, I think any honest look at the history of the church will reveal this is not a new issue. Priest concubines certainly appear to have been even more openly accepted at stages of the past. In addition, almost every major heresy was taught by ordained clergy or Bishops prior to being declared heretics. While this certainly happened prior to constatine converting, after the governments got involved, it certainly made it easier to also use might against dissent and literally kill heretics. There is a history of some Bishops and even some Popes certainly living on the edge, so to speak.

I’m not sure what that means, except I’m not sure it’s just a 20th century problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top