Benedict and Harry Potter

[Liberalsaved]

Gandalf is certainly from Middle Earth. Many of the Elves lived in Middle Earth. Even the hobbits have a sort-of magic in them, though not as clearly defined as that of Gandalf or the Elves. Even the dwarves have this same sort-of magic the hobbits did.

Still magic; O’Brien does not deny it so. in fact, he affirms:

If one studies Wicca, the magic they do should not in any way interfere with another’s fereewill or decision, exactly as Aslan’s magic is. Bottomline is, it’s still magic

Yeah, I just wanted to second the confirmation that Gandalf is not from Middle-Earth. He’s actually the equivalent of a spirit, and entered the world along with what would equate in Christian symbolism to Angels, at the creation.

 

[robbmiller]

A love spell is not consistent with the Wiccan Rede as it might do harm as well; Wiccan spells are made to minimize, if not totally avoid, bending another’s will. Thus Wiccan spellcasting tries to avoid involving another person directly, or bending his will to the caster’s will. I am not certain about other forms of witchcraft, though with Wicca I am certain that to bend another’s will would be to violate the Rede.

Hhmm…solitary or with a coven?

Dreadfully enough… both. The “rede” is rarely applied as objectively as you espouse. Your good Catholic sense (supported by research, perhaps) tells you that this is an objective rule. In practice, Wicca is a subjective philosophy.

However, I had no intent of logging on the CA Forums to discuss the finer points of Wiccan philosophy. See, Milliardo, such is the essence of the Potter series; I would speculate that you and I could talk about Lord of the Rings or Narnia ad nauseam without bringing modern day occult practice into the discussion.

This is why Father Amorth warned: “You start off with Harry Potter, who comes across as a likeable wizard, but you end up with the Devil… There is no doubt that the signature of the Prince of Darkness is clearly within these books.”

U

 

[bones_IV]

I’ve read all six books and I eagerly await the seventh. I can assure you that right is purely distinct from wrong in this series.

**Harry Potter Books
Question from Jim Barrett on 9/5/2006:

**Today. Sept 5.2006, I read a comment from the Chief Exorcist in The Vatican concerning the Potter Books. Satan is attributed control of all magic. Is not this a medeval view of magic? Are the Potter books therfore considered evil?

Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 9/6/2006: Jim, Yes, I am aware of this position on Potter Books taken by the chief Roman exorcist. He surely knows the consequences of exposing oneself to the demonic. To expose some innocent child to the magic world is dangerous at best, very imprudent to pit an innocent child to the wiles of the ancient one. Yes, these books can and have done much evil in the souls of children. Fr. Bob Levis

 

[estesbob]

Harry Potter Books
Question from Jim Barrett on 9/5/2006:

Today. Sept 5.2006, I read a comment from the Chief Exorcist in The Vatican concerning the Potter Books. Satan is attributed control of all magic. Is not this a medeval view of magic? Are the Potter books therfore considered evil?

Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 9/6/2006: Jim, Yes, I am aware of this position on Potter Books taken by the chief Roman exorcist. He surely knows the consequences of exposing oneself to the demonic. To expose some innocent child to the magic world is dangerous at best, very imprudent to pit an innocent child to the wiles of the ancient one. Yes, these books can and have done much evil in the souls of children. Fr. Bob Levis

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%between%

 

[bones_IV]

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[jtav]

Some spoilers for Half-Blood Prnice follow

My own feelings on the books is that they are fairly harmless. The magic in them is the magic of the fairytale, not the occult. If I have a problem with the books it is the degree to which characters seem to be predestined for good or evil. In Book Five, Harry is literally incapable of summoning the hatred necessary for an Unforgivable Curse. I hope their comes a point in the seventh book when he is genuinely tempted to do evil and has to reject it I don’t want him to fall, but I do want to feel he could have if he’d chosen differently. Draco will always be pettily evil it seems amd Tom Riddle was a textbook case of Anti-Social Personality Disorder at age eleven. I think it would have been far better for Voldemort to start out similarly to Harry and have him deliberately reject love, compassion, and the noble side of himself in his quest for power.

 

[estesbob]

Some spoilers for Half-Blood Prnice follow

My own feelings on the books is that they are fairly harmless. The magic in them is the magic of the fairytale, not the occult. If I have a problem with the books it is the degree to which characters seem to be predestined for good or evil. In Book Five, Harry is literally incapable of summoning the hatred necessary for an Unforgivable Curse. I hope their comes a point in the seventh book when he is genuinely tempted to do evil and has to reject it I don’t want him to fall, but I do want to feel he could have if he’d chosen differently. Draco will always be pettily evil it seems amd Tom Riddle was a textbook case of Anti-Social Personality Disorder at age eleven. I think it would have been far better for Voldemort to start out similarly to Harry and have him deliberately reject love, compassion, and the noble side of himself in his quest for power.

How brave of you to mention his name…

 

[TimOliv]

Listen, kids. What we have to acknowledge here is that Harry Potter doesn’t live in our world, where “magic” and the occult are synonyms, where the kinds of things that take place in the books can only come either from direct collaboration with Satan (whether knowingly or not) or from the direct intervention of God.

Rather, the world in which Harry Potter lives, the one invented by J.K. Rowling, and not the one created by God (the real world), is one in which magical ability is not a result of the intervention of spiritual beings, but is in fact an ability which corresponds, as far as I can tell, with musical, mathematical, or linguistic ability. Essentially, in the world of Harry Potter, magic simply is not the evil that it is in our world.

Now, the argument that Harry Potter can possibly corrupt children remains, if you are willing to adapt it to saying that children are incapable of seeing that Harry Potter is fiction and that reality is fact. However, anyone who can distinguish fact from fiction should be able to distinguish the occult from the fictional magic of Harry Potter (which, incidentally, is the same fictional magic that allows wizards to be wizards throughout LOTR, Arthurian legends, and the like).

Thus, the morality of the books boils down more to a subjective determination of whether a child will be deceived into thinking that the things done in the book can be sinlessly done in the real world. And that, dear friends, is a determination that lies mostly with age.

There endeth the lesson.

Thank you, Paddy for steering us back in the right direction. You see we have been arguing our personal opinions on whether Harry Potter is worthy of condemnation. The books, in and of themselves, I do not feel we should be throwing into a bonfire anytime soon.

The topic at hand (which we managed to deviate from) was whether we agree with the Vatican’s disapproval of them. This in particular is what I support. Mainly because I trust the Vatican over fiction authors.

I also trust that the Vatican would prefer a more Catholic friendly curriculum which leaves the metaphysical to the divine rather than the elemental, the powers that be or whatever diety a particular book’s magic is derived from.

If we argue personal opinions about the books and who should be reading them, we will be at this forever. Paddy is quite correct in that age and maturity is a determining factor in this judgement.

 

[Liberalsaved]

Some spoilers for Half-Blood Prnice follow

My own feelings on the books is that they are fairly harmless. The magic in them is the magic of the fairytale, not the occult. If I have a problem with the books it is the degree to which characters seem to be predestined for good or evil. In Book Five, Harry is literally incapable of summoning the hatred necessary for an Unforgivable Curse. I hope their comes a point in the seventh book when he is genuinely tempted to do evil and has to reject it I don’t want him to fall, but I do want to feel he could have if he’d chosen differently. Draco will always be pettily evil it seems amd Tom Riddle was a textbook case of Anti-Social Personality Disorder at age eleven. I think it would have been far better for Voldemort to start out similarly to Harry and have him deliberately reject love, compassion, and the noble side of himself in his quest for power.

Also spoilers, somewhat:

I can see Harry ending up not unambguously good before the end comes.

 

[milimac]

Here is some perspective on the story from Jimmy Akin, Catholic Answers’ Director of Apologetics:

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/pre16_on_harry_.html

Sounds like there may have been a little twisting of the story by reporters, especially concerning Pope Benedict’s condemnation of it.

And more on Fr. Amorth:
jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/hes_baaaaaaaack.html

I think reporters love to attribute anything coming from “the Vatican” as some official infallible pronouncement. Unfortunately, many take it that way as well.

 

[bones_IV]

Here is some perspective on the story from Jimmy Akin, Catholic Answers’ Director of Apologetics:

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/pre16_on_harry_.html

Sounds like there may have been a little twisting of the story by reporters, especially concerning Pope Benedict’s condemnation of it.

And more on Fr. Amorth:
jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/hes_baaaaaaaack.html

I think reporters love to attribute anything coming from “the Vatican” as some official infallible pronouncement. Unfortunately, many take it that way as well.

I disagree with Akin on Harry Potter. Akin is not a clergy person and he’s not the pope. I trust Father Levis’ opinion more than I trust Akin’s. I just think that the Harry Potter books are just plain rubbish.

 

[CathCentrist]

Here is some perspective on the story from Jimmy Akin, Catholic Answers’ Director of Apologetics:

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/pre16_on_harry_.html

Sounds like there may have been a little twisting of the story by reporters, especially concerning Pope Benedict’s condemnation of it.

And more on Fr. Amorth:
jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/hes_baaaaaaaack.html

I think reporters love to attribute anything coming from “the Vatican” as some official infallible pronouncement. Unfortunately, many take it that way as well.

Akins is on the money about Amorth. I read the guys book and I thnk he’s off his nut. To believe Amorth’s amount of exorcisms would be to believe (which I dont) the apostles did that many or more during their entire lifetimes. I also never believed Amorth was the Vaticans chief exorcist

Harry Potter is neutral material. Only people who wish to see demons responsible for all of man and societys ills would think HP is “of the devil”

 

[estesbob]

I disagree with Akin on Harry Potter. Akin is not a clergy person and he’s not the pope. I trust Father Levis’ opinion more than I trust Akin’s. I just think that the Harry Potter books are just plain rubbish.

The point is that the Church has NO opinion on the books and what B16 opinion is is sketchy at best/

The books have strengthned my faith. Since I read them I have been able to throw an impedementa spell whenever a JW shows up at my door. After being left imobolized in the cold for an hour or so they generally leave me alone…

 

[CathCentrist]

IWhen I try to come to a conclusion on a matter, I dont and refuse to immediatley cede someone elses opinion to another just because someone happens to be clergy, even the Pope. I insist on weighing all apsects and Akin, despite not being Clergy trumps Amorth’s opinion as far as I am concerned.

 

[TarAshly]

Ill come clean! I read and saw the Davinci code. I have read all the Harry Potter books and seen all 4 of the movies. I am expecting a letter from Archbishop Chaput anyday now-hopefully delivered by an Owl

DITO! EEK! Us Katynites just cant seem to keep our noses out of books! Haha lol!

 

[TarAshly]

Ok seriously it amazes me and SCARES the beegees out of me how people can read so much into something and turn a childrens book series into evil devil worship…some of these posts scare me more than these books. I love the books, Have read all of them, and own all of them and am saving them for neice and nephews to read when they are old enough as well as my own children when I have them. I also have seen and own all of the movies. The stuffs harmless if you have half a brain in your head. If the child in question is very young, or particularly naive then of course a parent should caution the child and guide the child, but I see very little difference between these books, the Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia.

 

[TarAshly]

Some spoilers for Half-Blood Prnice follow

My own feelings on the books is that they are fairly harmless. The magic in them is the magic of the fairytale, not the occult. If I have a problem with the books it is the degree to which characters seem to be predestined for good or evil. In Book Five, Harry is literally incapable of summoning the hatred necessary for an Unforgivable Curse. I hope their comes a point in the seventh book when he is genuinely tempted to do evil and has to reject it I don’t want him to fall, but I do want to feel he could have if he’d chosen differently. Draco will always be pettily evil it seems amd Tom Riddle was a textbook case of Anti-Social Personality Disorder at age eleven. I think it would have been far better for Voldemort to start out similarly to Harry and have him deliberately reject love, compassion, and the noble side of himself in his quest for power.

SPOILER ALERT FOR HBP

I agree but see I think Voldemort did reject love. When his mother left him at the orphanage they tried to care for him with TLC and his resentment over his own abandonment brought out his evil side…just an opinion though, we all interpret these things differently. Now Malfoy…that kids just gets a kick out being nasty, but then again look at his parents. Classic case for a Nature Vs. Nurture argument between Voldemort (shiver )and Malfoy. In fact I argued that very point for a project in my Psych. class last year.

 

[TarAshly]

The point is that the Church has NO opinion on the books and what B16 opinion is is sketchy at best/

The books have strengthned my faith. Since I read them I have been able to throw an impedementa spell whenever a JW shows up at my door. After being left imobolized in the cold for an hour or so they generally leave me alone…

**PETRIFICUS TOTALUS! **

 

[TarAshly]

I set out to make a wand but could never get a Phoenix to stand still long enough to get a hair form their tail!

Sheesh me too! try getting a Unicorns hair…seen any Unicorns lately? And I have broken my last six brooms! “Wingardium Leviousa…Wingardium Leviousa…Stupid Broom…”

 

[bones_IV]

The point is that the Church has NO opinion on the books and what B16 opinion is is sketchy at best/

The books have strengthned my faith. Since I read them I have been able to throw an impedementa spell whenever a JW shows up at my door. After being left imobolized in the cold for an hour or so they generally leave me alone…

My main issue with the books is this. They blur the difference between good and evil.
The problem with Harry Potter today is that people are not discerning. We should not waste our lives in stupid things. Why do we waste our time, and teach our children to waste their time, by reading something like Harry Potter, which will NOT bring them closer to God?!

**

Evil influences
Question from on 12-30-2001:**
I think witchcraft and Harry Potter are like homosexuality and drugs – you cannot just dabble in them a bit. When you open your soul to evil influences, you are endangering it, and you don’t know what might happen

Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 01-02-2002: Thanks, Lani. Fr. Bob Levis

Mr and Mrs. Lord were right about Harry Potter, stay the heck away from it.