Benedict XVI: After the Council, I was 'too timid' in challenging liberals [Allen]

[JimR-OCDS]

His words before his applogy were ill chosen.

Not to burst your bubble. But he said, “I’m if sorry if I offended”. Not “I apologize”. Big difference! Who will you defend next? The Nazis?

 

[chris_molter]

No one is justifying the excesses of radical Muslims.

However, when he’s not the one living in harms way, as Christians are, who live in these hostile places, the Pope has to be more careful on what he says.

BTW, do you agree with the Pope’s appeasement to Muslims, after he apologized for his ill chosen words?

Jim

I’d take issue with the “not in harm’s way” thing. He most certainly was in danger when he visited Turkey.

I also don’t think he saw how his words at Regensburg would be taken out of context and twisted by the media. Perhaps his mistake was to be too trusting?

I don’t think the Pope had to “appease” anyone and I don’t think he did. The fanatical Muslims wouldn’t be appeased by anything short of his conversion to Islam, and the moderate/liberal Muslims either weren’t offended or accepted his clarification after the whole thing went off the rails.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

chris molter

I’d take issue with the “not in harm’s way” thing. He most certainly was in danger when he visited Turkey.

The Pope has security that Christians living in Gaza and other hot spots, don’t have.

I also don’t think he saw how his words at Regensburg would be taken out of context and twisted by the media. Perhaps his mistake was to be too trusting?

The media didn’t twist anything. The quoted what the Pope said and it was the words from 13th century text that Muslims were insulted over. Its not that the 13th century quote the Pope used is inaccurate, but he should realise that it would be offensive to Muslims and would cause an outrage among radicals. It was not a good decision on the diplomatic level and yes, the Pope needs to be a diplomat.

I don’t think the Pope had to “appease” anyone and I don’t think he did. The fanatical Muslims wouldn’t be appeased by anything short of his conversion to Islam, and the moderate/liberal Muslims either weren’t offended or accepted his clarification after the whole thing went off the rails.

Well;

He expressed his “deep respect” for Islam during his weekly audience.

He said his use of medieval quotes from a 14th-Century Byzantine emperor, which were critical of Islam, did not reflect his own convictions.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5362788.stm

And

Pope prays with Turkish cleric at Istanbul mosque

ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061130/pope_benedict_061130?s_name=&no_ads=

Jim

 

[francesco920]

God bless Pope Benedict! Ad multos annos!

I am so glad the Church is finally coming out of the darkness of modernism and relativism. The pope may have been too timid then, but now his courage in proclaiming the truth of the Catholic Faith gives me great joy. In these dark times, we don’t need a sugarcoated, diluted, politically correct message, and Pope Benedict understands that.

By the way, to those who characterize pre-Vatican II Catholicism as “fundamentalist,” I remind you that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). Also, Tradition involves not only orthodoxy but orthopraxy.

Finally, Muslims kill Christians whether the pope says something or not. What’s ironic here is that the pope quoted an emperor who basically said that Muslims were violent, and the Muslims protested this by (surprise!) using violence. Should Martin Luther King Jr. have stayed quiet because his comments led to violence against blacks, and indeed to his own assassination? The point is that the situation in the Middle East must change…the status quo is not acceptable, and the pope made that clear. What needs to be said needs to be said, period. He can’t be faulted for the irrationality and brutality of the Islamists.

 

[bones_IV]

By the way, to those who characterize pre-Vatican II Catholicism as “fundamentalist,” I remind you that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). Also, Tradition involves not only orthodoxy but orthopraxy.

Exactly.

Finally, Muslims kill Christians whether the pope says something or not. What’s ironic here is that the pope quoted an emperor who basically said that Muslims were violent, and the Muslims protested this by (surprise!) using violence.

Not to mention the deafening silence of the moderate muslims.

 

[Richardols]

By the way, to those who characterize pre-Vatican II Catholicism as “fundamentalist,” I remind you that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

True, about Jesus, not necessarily true about the Church as can be evidenced by its highs and lows across the centuries.

 

[Ender]

“The Holy Father is very sorry that some passages of his speech may have sounded offensive to the sensibilities of Muslim believers,” the statement said.
JimR-OCDS;2877812:

Sounds like an apology to me.

He wasn’t apologizing for what he said, he was regretting the fact that his remarks were misinterpreted.

This is what was actually said: *“The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions.”

The media didn’t twist anything.

Really? They seem to have misled you into thinking the pope apologized for his comments rather than expressing regret about how they were … ummm … twisted. The quote that bones provided was from a BBC story; they neglected to include the second part of the sentence which clarified his position. I’m guessing that clarity was not their intent.

Ender

 

[francesco920]

True, about Jesus, not necessarily true about the Church as can be evidenced by its highs and lows across the centuries.

The highs and lows never occurred because a pope or other prelate spoke the truth. Orthodoxy has never been a problem. The greatest of popes did not mince words or try to make every one of their writings or sermons or whatever politically correct. The lows always occurred because of a laxity in morality and practice, sort of like what has happened since the 60s and 70s when modernism and relativism infected the Church. The best thing Benedict can do is purify the Church of these evils, and that’s exactly what he’s doing.

He wasn’t apologizing for what he said, he was regretting the fact that his remarks were misinterpreted.

This is true. Besides, he has nothing to apologize for. It’s amazing the pope quotes (QUOTES! - the comments weren’t even his!) somebody who said something that is probably more true than offensive, but he gets accused of everything under the sun while the Islamists, who have a track record of oppressing Christians and taking over Christian lands, get treated like victims. The secularists in the media will go to any extent to paint the Catholic Church as the evil aggressor, and they will bend over backwards to cater to Muslims.

 

[francesco920]

He wasn’t apologizing for what he said, he was regretting the fact that his remarks were misinterpreted.

This is true. Besides, he has nothing to apologize for. It’s amazing the pope quotes(QUOTES! - the comments weren’t even his!) somebody who said something that is probably more true than offensive, but he gets accused of everything under the sun while the Islamists, who have a track record of oppressing Christians and taking over Christian lands, get treated like victims. The secularists in the media will go to any extent to paint the Catholic Church as the evil aggressor, and they will bend over backwards to cater to Muslims.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Maybe Benedict XVI will be helpful in reining in the problems we see here in the US ~ such as addressing the complaints many have had about Catholic politicians who support abortion not being held accountable, etc. It would be refreshing to see.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Each pope has his own gifts to offer the Church. Pope Benedict is an excellent theologian and strategist. His German speech was spot on. Reason and faith go hand in hand if we hope to truly know God. That is what the pope offered up. The irrational radicals demonstrated his point by using his comments to show just how irrational the false religion of Islam truly is.

Pope Benedict is our beloved pope. I certainly love him.

CDL

 

[Steve40]

I love every Pope but their job is to bring together or gather not divide and scatter.

I think their job is to separate apart and if that means divide we divide. Unity at all costs is a discusting habit that the Church needs to do away with. Let’s see some excommunications for their own good.

 

[cmudd]

“Oh come on, I never said that. I said that he needs to choose his words carefully, because in fact, inflammatory talk can bring consequences to innocent people. It now way justifies what radical Muslims did. But the reality of the world is, there are Christians living in hostile lands where radical Muslims will retaliate against the innocent, for ill chosen words spoken by the Pope.”

Did you read that lecture? I not only read it, but went to a seminar on it. Your assessment sounds like you read it from the National Catholic Reporter or CNN. It was not inflammatory. It was charitably profound! In essence (if we can truly sum up his lecture in a few words) he stated that it is impossible to discuss the need for reason with a religion whose very tenants deny the need for reason and deny that Allah can be encapsulate by reason. Further, in order to approach Islam in dialogue, we must first reach an understanding on reason.

In fact, it was the mass media who ripped his lecture out of context and made it into something that it was not intended to be nor reasonably interpreted as what they reported.

You say that the Pope spoke unwisely. The truth is that whenever you challenge Islam, the radicals will come out for blood. Therefore, in your world, we could and should never challenge Islam.

Said the radical Muslim, “Kill anyone who says that Islam is not a religion of peace!” It is tough to reason with that mentality.

 

[MiddleBear]

He’s only been Pope a short while, and he’s had to retract or have some handler in the Vatican, re-explain what he meant. His gaff about Islam cost people their lives.

Jim

Lets see the Pope makes a critique of Islam and some Islamists kill people in return, and you say it’s the Pope’ fault.

That is nonsense.

 

[bones_IV]

Lets see the Pope makes a critique of Islam and some Islamists kill people in return, and you say it’s the Pope’ fault.

That is nonsense.

Yeah I agree it is nonsense. We need to pray for the Church.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Yeah I agree it is nonsense. We need to pray for the Church.

We must also pray for our pope. With friends like some posters here I’d hate to think of what his enemies are plotting.

CDL

 

[MelanieAnne]

I LOVE my German Shepherd ~ Pope Benedict XVI ~ my newest favorite bumper sticker too!

 

[bones_IV]

We must also pray for our pope. With friends like some posters here I’d hate to think of what his enemies are plotting.

CDL

If his enemies had it their way, they’d have the people in the Church believe whatever they wanted.

 

[mdgspencer]

If you look at the accounts in the Gospels, you find people saying things about Christ like the things some people say about Pope Benedict. Christ was divisive as he challenged the way the Pharisees and scribes interpreted the law, who said for example that there should be no healing on the sabbath, and was in fact he was very divisive when he said he was the bread of life in John 6. When it came to this last teaching, many of his disciples walked away from him for good. Contradicting people in such ways, Christ stirred up people’s anger and even fury against him. For the same reasons dissentors feel great anger against Pope Benedict for defending the faith. But what Christ said to his apostles at the Last Supper is true too–if they persecute me they will persecute you too.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

He wasn’t apologizing for what he said, he was regretting the fact that his remarks were misinterpreted.

This is what was actually said: *“The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions.”
*

Its the obligation of the person( especially in the case of an international figure) giving the speech to not offend. Its not the responsibility of the offended to interpret the words as meaning something different than other what was said.

Its my opinion as well as many others, that the Pope should not have used the 14th century quote, because of the offense it would cause. His apparent insensitivity to the political climate we’re living is, is what he needs to be informed on.

From what I recall from Catholic experts that I listened to on this issue, saod that the speech that the made had not gone through Vatican screeners, as is usually the case for Popes. Had the Pope used the screeners, they would’ve advised him not to use the quote.

Jim