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Soutane
Guest
Thanks for clarifying how seriously you take your faith.
Emile Zola would agree with your assessment completely.
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Emile Zola would agree with your assessment completely.
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Sophia2000
Guest
Even the legit apparitions always seem to draw in the loud and vocal crazy’s, who then go ahead and embarrass the normal Catholics.
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Adonis33
Guest
So Popes that have approved Fatima, Lourdes and others are superstitious fools? Nobody is obligated to believe in approved apparitions, but to dismiss those that do as “superstitious fools” is pretty insulting.
On the other hand - based on my experience - people who follow the alleged apparitions in Medj. do so with a cultish zeal. I truly believe that, sadly, Medj. will have the exact same following regradless of what the Vatican rules.
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Sophia2000
Guest
Considering a large amount of followers of these false apparitions are the traditionalist and sedevacantist types, I don’t think the Popes words will do much since they believe him to be false or untrustworthy in the first place…
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Adonis33
Guest
I find that people that who are the touchy feely (NOT Traditionalists) types are the ones who follow Medj. I’m what one would be considered a Traditionalist - and few, if any that go to my Church believe Medj. to be legit.
Garabandal is another matter. However, based on my experience - few Traditionalist I know follow it.
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JReducation
Guest
I may be completely wrong here, but I think the great concern of the Church has to do with faith, more than the apparitions.
There are people who look at these things as the Catholic Enquierer. They are sensationalists. They will go to any length to defend a miracle or an apparition, but not put the same amount of energy and passion into living a faithful life.
I believe that the Holy Father’s concern is just this. He wants Catholics to focus on fidelity to the faith rather than sensationalism. If there are miracles and these are worthy of belief, so be it. But to depend on miracles and apparitions in order to have faith is very dangerous. That’s like depending on feelings.
These events can attract many who get some kind of spiritual high from them. There are other people whose faith is strong before hearing about any of these apparitions. If the apparition is deemed not worthy of belief, their faith will not falter, because it was solid before the event.
It’s like the saints. There are so many people who are devoted to saints who have many miracles while alive, such as Padre Pio, but they do not take the time to learn what made the person a saint: humility, obedience, prayer, penance, charity, detachment, faith in the Church, the frequent use of the sacraments and more. It’s not the miracle that makes a saint. It’s the faith in daily practice.
That’s just my opinion. He’s trying to get people to get rooted in faith rather than sensationalism.
Fraternally,
JR
There are people who look at these things as the Catholic Enquierer. They are sensationalists. They will go to any length to defend a miracle or an apparition, but not put the same amount of energy and passion into living a faithful life.
I believe that the Holy Father’s concern is just this. He wants Catholics to focus on fidelity to the faith rather than sensationalism. If there are miracles and these are worthy of belief, so be it. But to depend on miracles and apparitions in order to have faith is very dangerous. That’s like depending on feelings.
These events can attract many who get some kind of spiritual high from them. There are other people whose faith is strong before hearing about any of these apparitions. If the apparition is deemed not worthy of belief, their faith will not falter, because it was solid before the event.
It’s like the saints. There are so many people who are devoted to saints who have many miracles while alive, such as Padre Pio, but they do not take the time to learn what made the person a saint: humility, obedience, prayer, penance, charity, detachment, faith in the Church, the frequent use of the sacraments and more. It’s not the miracle that makes a saint. It’s the faith in daily practice.
That’s just my opinion. He’s trying to get people to get rooted in faith rather than sensationalism.
Fraternally,
JR
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DawnInTexas
Guest
ncregister.com/daily/false_rumors_about_apparitions/
**
False Rumors About Apparitions**
…according to a Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith official who spoke with Register correspondent Edward Pentin, there is no truth to these reports. The official stated emphatically that no work is underway on a vademecum or on any other type of document regarding the question of how to handle claims of apparitions.
**
False Rumors About Apparitions**
…according to a Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith official who spoke with Register correspondent Edward Pentin, there is no truth to these reports. The official stated emphatically that no work is underway on a vademecum or on any other type of document regarding the question of how to handle claims of apparitions.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Isn’t there a local Baptist mega-church locally that is missing you?
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iamrefreshed
Guest
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
That wasn’t very nice, or charitable.Isn’t there a local Baptist mega-church locally that is missing you?
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Eucharisted
Guest
Jimmy Akin thinks the news story might be a fake
For the last week or so, I’ve been following a story that has started to gain traction in the English-language press and blogosphere.
The gist of the story is this: A new document is going to be released from the Holy See governing the way in which Marian and other apparitions (or private revelation in general) is handled. This will be an updating of the guidelines privately circulated to bishops since the 1970s.
The document is reported to be a vademecum (a brief guide, not an exhaustive tome), and it’s being presented as something that will create a “crack down” or a “gag order” on visionaries.
There are several reasons to be cautious about this story.
(more at link)
1978 CDF document on apparition discernment
Jimmy Akin’s blog (same document)
For the last week or so, I’ve been following a story that has started to gain traction in the English-language press and blogosphere.
The gist of the story is this: A new document is going to be released from the Holy See governing the way in which Marian and other apparitions (or private revelation in general) is handled. This will be an updating of the guidelines privately circulated to bishops since the 1970s.
The document is reported to be a vademecum (a brief guide, not an exhaustive tome), and it’s being presented as something that will create a “crack down” or a “gag order” on visionaries.
There are several reasons to be cautious about this story.
(more at link)
1978 CDF document on apparition discernment
Jimmy Akin’s blog (same document)
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Soutane
Guest
False Rumors About Apparitions
Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:49 PM
A Vatican official has denied a document is being prepared about how to deal with alleged Marian apparitions and visions, such as those at Medjugorje.
According to some reports that have circulated in the last few days, Pope Benedict has instructed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to prepare a vademecum, or handbook, on the matter. It reportedly would require individuals who said they have experienced appearances or visions of the Virgin Mary to remain silent while their claims are investigated carefully by Church authorities.
The document was also rumored to specify that local bishops should set up commissions composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, theologians and priests to investigate the claimed apparitions.
But according to a Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith official who spoke with Register correspondent Edward Pentin, there is no truth to these reports. The official stated emphatically that no work is underway on a vademecum or on any other type of document regarding the question of how to handle claims of apparitions.
Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:49 PM
A Vatican official has denied a document is being prepared about how to deal with alleged Marian apparitions and visions, such as those at Medjugorje.
According to some reports that have circulated in the last few days, Pope Benedict has instructed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to prepare a vademecum, or handbook, on the matter. It reportedly would require individuals who said they have experienced appearances or visions of the Virgin Mary to remain silent while their claims are investigated carefully by Church authorities.
The document was also rumored to specify that local bishops should set up commissions composed of psychiatrists, psychologists, theologians and priests to investigate the claimed apparitions.
But according to a Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith official who spoke with Register correspondent Edward Pentin, there is no truth to these reports. The official stated emphatically that no work is underway on a vademecum or on any other type of document regarding the question of how to handle claims of apparitions.
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Emerite
Guest
I believe apparitions could just be a state of mind. occurring from one’s own thoughts. I never mentioned this before, but years ago, while relaxing out of doors and pondering whether my recently retired husband and I should move elsewhere and leave Metro New Orleans, I saw an image of the Blessed Mother (as the Immaculate Conception) in the clouds, with her facing towards the very Christian town we moved to. The complete peace I felt at that moment is indescribable. Then my thoughts all came together, my husband and I talked, and we realized we should move away. Our lives had taken us away from some of the values we grew up with as Catholics, and my husband had an alcohol problem, not to mention my own problems. We are now happily relocated and very active in the Catholic Church, and he even attends Mass daily.
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paul_c
Guest
I personally find the Story of Bernadette Soubirous at Lourdes to be very inspirational. It teaches many very solid lessons, including the fact that you don’t need to be rich, smart, or athletic to be an instrument of God. And remember, Bernadette was severely hassled and efforts were made to silence her by both the government and the Church. While it is true that most apparitions are not real, some undoubtedly are. They will be judged, like Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadaloupe, by their fruits and fidelity to the existing deposit of Faith. If they hold true to established teachings and lead to increased Faith, they are likely to be real. If they deviate in any way, they are likely to be false. Unilaterly forcing silence on all visionaries would be wrong. Until they cross the threshold of preaching heresy, it is appropriate for the Church to do as it has been doing at Medjugorje, taking a wait and see approach, careful not to give any indication of support that might mislead the faithful should the apparitions turn out to be made up or satanic in origin.
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Soutane
Guest
A wonderful story but don’t be so quick to think aparitions are “a state of mind”,70,000 people witnessed the miracle of the sun at Fatima but much moreimportantly the Church
has affirmed that it truly occured although individual Catholics are not bound to belief.
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mark_a
Guest
Thanks
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mightymo
Guest
In my opinion, the sooner Pope Benedict acts the better. The rash of Marian apparitions have led thousands of Catholics to a worship of Mary, ‘salvation through Mary to Jesus’ as I have read several times. They don’t even realize what they are doing. Unfortunately I believe this has been a great victory for Satan in our church. Satans deceptions are not obvious or they would not be successful. He succeeds by appearing beautiful, peaceful, alluring and good and in these situations, he appears in the person of a woman Catholics are devoted to in the first place and therefore the groundwork has already been laid. Yet the message through his appearing to be Mary is always ‘pray to me’. It seems to many Catholics that if you don’t pray to ‘Mary’ now and believe in all these apparitions you are not a good Catholic. Yet God tells us we are not to have ANY gods before Him. Satan has found an opening in the Catholic church because of our devotion to Mary and has found great success. The Church needs to take a stand and very quickly.
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mattkubes
Guest
You misrepresented the popular saying, “To Jesus through Mary.” This is only meant to say that Mary’s role is to lead us to worship her Son. In Heaven, we will be worship Him just as she worships Him. No Catholic claims to be saved through Mary…although there are lots of Protestants who pretend that Catholics say this.
That is never the message of the apparitions. The apparitions call us to fast, do penance, and to pray to God. Where on earth did you get the concept of Mary telling us to pray to her?
There’s no reason for a Catholic to be afraid to ask for Mary’s intercession. We join our prayers to the Saints in Heaven just as it is depicted in the book of Revelation. And again, none of us are bound to believe in the approved apparitions…but why wouldn’t we? If anything, all they do is confirm our faith in Christ and His Bride, the Church.
Now that this document has been shown to be little more than a rumour, we’ll have to be patient. But why do you assume that “[taking] a stand” would mean declaring them to be false?
I’m sorry, but I have to ask because of your post count and because it happens a lot on these forums…are you really Catholic? If you are, you seem to misunderstand the Church’s teaching on a few issues (including the intercession of the Saints)…if you’d like clarification, please feel free to ask.
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mightymo
Guest
In response to:
In regards to the words, “to Jesus through Mary”,… The most recent publication was a Marian publication regarding Mary’s apparitions in Alabama this past year and most recently July 4th. If you haven’t read it you should! Whatever way you look at it, if you’re praying to Mary to pray to Jesus, you still are praying to Mary, I choose not to do that. And you are right, I choose not to pray to the saints either. I like the straight approach to God and He hasn’t failed me yet! He’s awesome!
Yes. Born a Catholic, went to Catholic school 8 years, received all the sacraments in the church, never left the church, never will leave the church, very active in my church, attend Mass every Sunday plus, love the church, just think on this situation it has gone the wrong way. No I don’t misunderstand the Church’s teaching on the intercession of saints, just don’t agree. I know of many other Catholics who agree with me but would never voice that opinion. I have read, talked about, listened, studied, asked about, prayed and I am fine with the way I feel. I am a new member to this website and have never blogged anywhere but felt the door opened when I read the post about Pope Benedict.
In regards to the words, “to Jesus through Mary”,… The most recent publication was a Marian publication regarding Mary’s apparitions in Alabama this past year and most recently July 4th. If you haven’t read it you should! Whatever way you look at it, if you’re praying to Mary to pray to Jesus, you still are praying to Mary, I choose not to do that. And you are right, I choose not to pray to the saints either. I like the straight approach to God and He hasn’t failed me yet! He’s awesome!
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mattkubes
Guest
Alright, please excuse my assumption then…it just does happen frequently here (well, from what I’ve seen) 
So then I guess the logical follow-up question to this is…do you think the Church is correct when She teaches that the Saints can and do intercede for us (and Mary in particular)? I mean, ultimately it doesn’t matter what you and I think with regards to objective truths like these, but there’s a difference between accepting a Church teaching with difficulty and rejecting one.
Yep, God is awesome! He could have set things up so that we didn’t need to ask anyone else to pray for us or where we wouldn’t need to pray for anyone else…but that’s simply not how He chooses to have things operate. Jesus is our unique, pivotal mediator between God and man to be sure, but the Scriptures tell us that we should pray for one another…the book of Revelation even shows the Saints presenting the prayers of the faithful to God. This is how God wants us to operate. He wants us to pray for others and to ask others to pray for us in order to spread His love and grace among the faithful.
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