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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I have never felt so certain about anything (except my wife). Normally, I’m a very dispassionate logical thinker not prone to emotion. My research on St. Josemaria and the prelature, plus my actual experience with members of Opus Dei, has left me afire. Like you said, Luigi, these are very holy men. Catholic warriors in a dynamic organization.I am glad.
Absolutely. It is your calling
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
I truly believe that OD, and orthodox (small “o”
) religious and priests will save the Church and us.I am glad that you are home.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I agree. I saw on the news yesterday that ever more Americans are describing their religion as “None”, according to polls. Its time for all hands on deck, my friend. We need to bring in new souls and reclaim Catholic brethren that have left the fold. Look at societal changes over the last 50 years. I’ll not delve into the social issues for the sake of political correctness on a public forum, but you know exactly what I mean. Just look at the leftist tendencies among some Catholics today: pro-choice, women’s ordinations, etc. We have bongo drums, guitars and tambourines at Sunday Mass. I could go on …I truly believe that OD, and orthodox (small “o”
I am glad that you are home.
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jwinch2
Guest
Please don’t. I just ate…
As for the rest, Pope Benedict has been quoted as saying that the Church may need to get much smaller in order for her to get stronger. I believe he is likely correct. We are coming to a crisis point where the dissenters will eventually have to leave because the changes they wanted to see aren’t taking place. The question in my mind, is what will happen to the lukewarm.
I don’t see changing the mind of too many of the dissenters unless God decides to get involved himself and soften their hearts. I do think, however, that we can hold on to the non-dissenting lukewarm Catholic and that we should be focusing our efforts there as well as towards properly introducing God and His Church to the next generation through solid catechesis and strong witnessing to the Faith.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
You’re preaching to the choir. We may have to go through a process somewhat like the Episcopalians are doing, except they have the conservatives breaking away.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Agree completely. The lukewarm are for the most part, good people. They live the faith, except the attending Mass/confession part.Please don’t. I just ate…
As for the rest, Pope Benedict has been quoted as saying that the Church may need to get much smaller in order for her to get stronger. I believe he is likely correct. We are coming to a crisis point where the dissenters will eventually have to leave because the changes they wanted to see aren’t taking place. The question in my mind, is what will happen to the lukewarm.
I don’t see changing the mind of too many of the dissenters unless God decides to get involved himself and soften their hearts. I do think, however, that we can hold on to the non-dissenting lukewarm Catholic and that we should be focusing our efforts there as well as towards properly introducing God and His Church to the next generation through solid catechesis and strong witnessing to the Faith.
Man, what they are missing…
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
OK, the gentleman from the OFS got back to me.
The situation is dire. Not quite as bad as I had been told, but dire.
There are 4 active members (1 just went inactive, due to work). There is one inquirer, but she is in effect a guest now, and unlikely to profess. She has been attending meetings for 4-5 years, and just has no interest in professing. Yeah, I know: I don’t get it, either.
The OFS requires 5 active, professed members for a chapter to continue. As of right now, they have, as mentioned above, 4. This means that the chapter, a chapter that is over 100 years old, will cease to exist unless they can find 1 more member. Obviously, I would be that one member.
I have told him that I will pray on this. I need your prayers, too, please.
I love the Bennies. I feel a connection to them. I love Francesco and Assisi. I feel a connection to the OFS, and in this case, a responsibility for them, as well.
Thank you.
The situation is dire. Not quite as bad as I had been told, but dire.
There are 4 active members (1 just went inactive, due to work). There is one inquirer, but she is in effect a guest now, and unlikely to profess. She has been attending meetings for 4-5 years, and just has no interest in professing. Yeah, I know: I don’t get it, either.
The OFS requires 5 active, professed members for a chapter to continue. As of right now, they have, as mentioned above, 4. This means that the chapter, a chapter that is over 100 years old, will cease to exist unless they can find 1 more member. Obviously, I would be that one member.
I have told him that I will pray on this. I need your prayers, too, please.
I love the Bennies. I feel a connection to them. I love Francesco and Assisi. I feel a connection to the OFS, and in this case, a responsibility for them, as well.
Thank you.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
“Lukewarm” Catholics are indeed good people. They don’t necessarily search out alternative denominations; they simply fall off the map because of children, careers, or active lifestyles. I personally think lethargy or disaffection set in for many following the changes wrought by Vatican II. In any event, secularism now runs amok in society. One person at a time, we need to get our Catholic brethren back in the fold. Given the Church’s aggressive approach to ecumenism and the new emphasis on evangelization, we may gather converts and reverts alike over the coming years.Agree completely. The lukewarm are for the most part, good people. They live the faith, except the attending Mass/confession part.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
From your lips to God’s ears, amico mio.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
I missed you preface the last time“Badges? We don’t need no stinking badges!”
Well, what about these?
picbadges.com/the-medal-of-saint-benedict/2380854/
picbadges.com/st-benedict-medal-3/1371407/
picbadges.com/saint-benedict-medal/835337/
I have bookmarked this, BTW
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I somehow missed this post. What a pickle. Is there a time limit by which the Order must have the minimum 5 members? Are the other 4 likely to stay? Any likely prospects for newbies?
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
- It usually happens at the next regional visitation.
- The other 4 would stay, yes. A slight chance that the gentleman with the work issues would come back, as well (which would be great on 2 levels: he would bring his wife as well, and they are just fantastic great Catholics)
- The fraternity is very orthodox/“conservative” (religiously) now (finally). The parish is wacko out in left field (but 100 times better than they were). I don’t think any of the members actually attend Mass at the parish church there (which is absolutely gorgeous–such a “waste” ). If there are prospects, it will have to be outside the parish, I think
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JReducation
Guest
It sounds like the fraternity is in a pickle not you. You must go where God calls you. Remember, you’re Luigi, not the SSPX, you don’t have to redeem the Church
– in this case, the fraternity. Sorry, it was too good of a comparison to pass up. OK, you’re not their protector. If you go there, it’s because God wants you there. You’ll know when you walk in and you feel at home.This is not a big deal. It’s just like the regular Franciscans. When one fraternity closes, the brothers are blended into another No one is left on the street.
- It usually happens at the next regional visitation.
Remember, communities evolve as their members evolve. The Franciscan family has always been very orthodox. We have a reputation for obedience and orthodoxy. However, because of size, you can’t help picking up a dissenter or a problem child along the way. If you’re really lucky, you’ll pick up a loose cannon who can’t keep his mouth shut. There is not much you can do with them after they make final profession. They have to practically sign a pact with the devil himself for the fraternity to dismiss them. Even then, dismissal can only be done with the approval of the Vatican. It is the same for the Secular Franciscans as well, because they make a public profession and the Church accepts it as a binding commitment until death.
My point is that I’m glad that they are orthodox, but I have never given that too much consideration when I go to a fraternity of friars or secular Franciscans. I know that at any time a loose cannon can walk in. On the other hand, I don’t pay much attention when I have to live with a loose cannon either, because at some point he’ll be history. The first rule to be a good Franciscan: hang up your feelings, preferences and opinions at the door when you walk in and do as the Church tells you to do. It’s in the first paragraph of St. Francis Testament and in the admonitions as well. I just word it in modern English rather than elegant Italian as he did.
Once you make final profession into an order, you cease to be part of the parish. You are incardinated into the order. The parish can be nutty, that’s not the Franciscan’s problem. We don’t involve ourselves in those things. Franciscans were not put on earth to save the Church. We were put here to: obey, pray, practice detachment, live in fraternity with all people and convert Catholics back to Christianity. The rest, is not our concern. Every religious family has its charism and mission. Our mission is very simple. It’s to live a live of penance among the poor. We help where we can and when we can those who want our help. Don’t worry about the parish unless the parish asks for your help. Look around you and focus on the poor and on converting the hearts of Catholics through your presence and your good example.The parish is wacko out in left field (but 100 times better than they were). I don’t think any of the members actually attend Mass at the parish church there (which is absolutely gorgeous–such a “waste” ). If there are prospects, it will have to be outside the parish, I think
The rest . . . I have no idea. God has a plan.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
It sounds like the fraternity is in a pickle not you. You must go where God calls you. Remember, you’re Luigi, not the SSPX, you don’t have to redeem the Church
This is not a big deal. It’s just like the regular Franciscans. When one fraternity closes, the brothers are blended into another No one is left on the street.
Remember, communities evolve as their members evolve. The Franciscan family has always been very orthodox. We have a reputation for obedience and orthodoxy. However, because of size, you can’t help picking up a dissenter or a problem child along the way. If you’re really lucky, you’ll pick up a loose cannon who can’t keep his mouth shut. There is not much you can do with them after they make final profession. They have to practically sign a pact with the devil himself for the fraternity to dismiss them. Even then, dismissal can only be done with the approval of the Vatican. It is the same for the Secular Franciscans as well, because they make a public profession and the Church accepts it as a binding commitment until death.
My point is that I’m glad that they are orthodox, but I have never given that too much consideration when I go to a fraternity of friars or secular Franciscans. I know that at any time a loose cannon can walk in. On the other hand, I don’t pay much attention when I have to live with a loose cannon either, because at some point he’ll be history. The first rule to be a good Franciscan: hang up your feelings, preferences and opinions at the door when you walk in and do as the Church tells you to do. It’s in the first paragraph of St. Francis Testament and in the admonitions as well. I just word it in modern English rather than elegant Italian as he did.
Once you make final profession into an order, you cease to be part of the parish. You are incardinated into the order. The parish can be nutty, that’s not the Franciscan’s problem. We don’t involve ourselves in those things. Franciscans were not put on earth to save the Church. We were put here to: obey, pray, practice detachment, live in fraternity with all people and convert Catholics back to Christianity. The rest, is not our concern. Every religious family has its charism and mission. Our mission is very simple. It’s to live a live of penance among the poor. We help where we can and when we can those who want our help. Don’t worry about the parish unless the parish asks for your help. Look around you and focus on the poor and on converting the hearts of Catholics through your presence and your good example.
The rest . . . I have no idea. God has a plan.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
This has helped a very great deal, fratello. Grazie
The problem out west is that the next nearest fraternity is 45 minutes further away. Not a problem for me (I would already be driving about 50 minutes, anyway), but for the one elderly lady, it would be impossible.
I guess I can sum it up this way: in the Franciscans, I truly feel close to the fraternity members. The clergy there (it is an OFM church): not so much. In the Bennies, I truly feel close to the Spiritual Director. The members (who are very nice people, please don’t get me wrong): not so much. Again, mainly because of the charismatic stuff (not that there is anything wrong with it—just not my cup of tea).
The Frannies “need” me. The Bennies “don’t”.
Also this keeps hitting me on the head:
I was professed an OFS. Was Formation Director (formed most of the folks that are still there, actually) and Minister. Would never have left (one of the toughest decisions of my life), TBH, were it not for the 2 openly gay lesbians that were there and a fellow who oozed, I know no other way to say it, evil. They are all gone now. I think my leaving (and the 10-15 members which left, too) finally woke them up.
So, I will pray. I know that you will, too.
J
JReducation
Guest
Since you never asked for permission to leave, you’re still a Franciscan. I don’t know about oblates, because they are not professed into the Benedictine Order. The Franciscan rule is very clear, no Franciscan can be professed into two orders. You have to check that one.
This has helped a very great deal, fratello. Grazie
The problem out west is that the next nearest fraternity is 45 minutes further away. Not a problem for me (I would already be driving about 50 minutes, anyway), but for the one elderly lady, it would be impossible.
I guess I can sum it up this way: in the Franciscans, I truly feel close to the fraternity members. The clergy there (it is an OFM church): not so much. In the Bennies, I truly feel close to the Spiritual Director. The members (who are very nice people, please don’t get me wrong): not so much. Again, mainly because of the charismatic stuff (not that there is anything wrong with it—just not my cup of tea).
The Frannies “need” me. The Bennies “don’t”.
Also this keeps hitting me on the head:
I was professed an OFS. Was Formation Director (formed most of the folks that are still there, actually) and Minister. Would never have left (one of the toughest decisions of my life), TBH, were it not for the 2 openly gay lesbians that were there and a fellow who oozed, I know no other way to say it, evil. They are all gone now. I think my leaving (and the 10-15 members which left, too) finally woke them up.
So, I will pray. I know that you will, too.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Yes, I know. I am told that it would only take some minor (no pun intendedSince you never asked for permission to leave, you’re still a Franciscan. I don’t know about oblates, because they are not professed into the Benedictine Order. The Franciscan rule is very clear, no Franciscan can be professed into two orders. You have to check that one.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
) paperwork.Grazie per tutto fratello. Sei veramente il mio amico.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I didn’t realize you were still a professed Franciscan. If true, you committed to the Order, not any particular fraternity. Unless you reject the spirituality, beliefs and practices of the Order, I think you should remain a Franciscan. That is my personal opinion concerning commitments to an Order (or prelature). I respect your decision. Take my opinion, add $1.65, and you can buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks.Since you never asked for permission to leave, you’re still a Franciscan. I don’t know about oblates, because they are not professed into the Benedictine Order. The Franciscan rule is very clear, no Franciscan can be professed into two orders. You have to check that one.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
Please don’t take my comments as judgmental, Luigi. I merely stated my opinion regarding promises made to an order or prelature of the Catholic Church. I understand that circumstances may change at the local level. Assuming I ultimately discern a vocation as a supernumerary with Opus Dei, I view the OD contract as between me, God and the prelature situated in Rome. If, for example, I find one Opus Dei circle more beneficial than another, I will attend their meeting. But that has nothing to do with my commitment to Opus Dei.
And please, bring the $1.65 to Starbucks along with my opinion if you still want that cup of coffee.
And please, bring the $1.65 to Starbucks along with my opinion if you still want that cup of coffee.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Haha
I will take your advice under consideration.
To be clear, I formally left the order, although the Franciscans always leave the door open
Than you Dave
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