Benedictine Oblate #2

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Jason,

I understand that the question is whether I fit in their society, not whether they will adapt to me. I accept that. We will see. From looking at multiple websites for Benedictine monasteries, I noticed that many state outright their faithfulness to the Magisterium; St. Leo Abbey makes no such statement, but by itself is of no consequence. I am sure they will disclose their position on the Magisterium in a forthright manner.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
I also note your concerns regarding non-Catholics participating in the discernment process. They cannot partake of the Holy Eucharist, nor accept many facets of Church dogma.
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I have seen several of you say this and I find it curious.

Personally, if I weren’t Catholic I can’t imagine why I would want to be an Oblate. But from the other side, as an Oblate, I can’t see how it takes anything away to have non-Catholics participate.

If they had issues/problems with some aspect of Benedictine life, I assume they would decide it was not the right place for them. But if they do feel it’s right, and understand the limitations (such as not receiving communion if they come to Mass), then why not allow them to take part?

Since in my other life I’m an RCIA director, there’s a part of me that hopes that being exposed to the Church will lead them to want to come into full communion.

So what is the down side that I’m missing? What does it take away to have non-Catholic Oblates?
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
I have seen several of you say this and I find it curious.

Personally, if I weren’t Catholic I can’t imagine why I would want to be an Oblate. But from the other side, as an Oblate, I can’t see how it takes anything away to have non-Catholics participate.

If they had issues/problems with some aspect of Benedictine life, I assume they would decide it was not the right place for them. But if they do feel it’s right, and understand the limitations (such as not receiving communion if they come to Mass), then why not allow them to take part?

Since in my other life I’m an RCIA director, there’s a part of me that hopes that being exposed to the Church will lead them to want to come into full communion.

So what is the down side that I’m missing? What does it take away to have non-Catholic Oblates?
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Meetings can get a tad side tracked. I know this from personal experience. If the person running the meeting is good (he is), they nip this stuff in the bud.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Meetings can get a tad side tracked. I know this from personal experience. If the person running the meeting is good (he is), they nip this stuff in the bud.
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Meetings can get sidetracked no matter what. A good leader/convener/chair will be able to handle that. I know that certain of my co-workers have ways of focusing on trivia that can completely ruin a meeting. I’m always impressed with people who can say something like “we can talk about that outside the meeting” and get back to the point.

I don’t think it’s an issue of Catholic or non-Catholic, it’s an issue of human nature.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
Meetings can get sidetracked no matter what. A good leader/convener/chair will be able to handle that. I know that certain of my co-workers have ways of focusing on trivia that can completely ruin a meeting. I’m always impressed with people who can say something like “we can talk about that outside the meeting” and get back to the point.

I don’t think it’s an issue of Catholic or non-Catholic, it’s an issue of human nature.
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I agree. 🙂

The non Catholic is actually a really great guy, and gets along well with everyone.🙂
 
SuscipeMeDomine,

Non-Catholics cannot take the Holy Eucharist, nor can they accept significant aspects of Catholicism due to conflicts with their own faith. These are facts. Does it bother me that they become oblates? Absolutely not! I am exploring the Benedictine oblate discernment process with full knowledge that non-Catholics join the Order. Like you, I thrill at the prospect of their conversion to Catholicism if the oblate experience guides them to the Church. But for those others entrenched in their non-Catholic religious beliefs, I simply wonder why they wish to join a Catholic monastic order. Simply a matter of curiosity, nothing more.

Would you consider joining a Protestant, Jewish, or Buddhist order? I have no such interest as a Catholic fully committed to my faith. There is something good to be said for non-Catholics who cross the religious divide. They display great intellectual curiosity, an obvious desire to enhance their own spirituality, and considerable courage to tread the unfamiliar waters of Catholicism. God bless them on their journey!
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Would you consider joining a Protestant, Jewish, or Buddhist order? I have no such interest as a Catholic fully committed to my faith. There is something good to be said for non-Catholics who cross the religious divide. They display great intellectual curiosity, an obvious desire to enhance their own spirituality, and considerable courage to tread the unfamiliar waters of Catholicism. God bless them on their journey!
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Personally no, I think it’s unlikely I would join an organization that was part of some other faith community. But maybe there’s a question of how much something conflicts with your faith.

For example, I attend Taize prayer services at a Methodist church. They’re almost identical to the Taize services my own parish has only the Methodists do it more often. I find Taize at either church to be prayerful, peaceful, and good for my soul. I figure I gain by being able to attend more often and I don’t see a down side. It would be different, obviously, if they did some kind of hard sell on Methodist teachings, but that doesn’t happen.

Perhaps Protestant Oblates see things somewhat the same way. They appreciate the Rule, like Benedictine forms of prayer, and enjoy being in a peaceful place like a monastery. And I guess they can overlook it when there are prayers for the Pope or the local bishop.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
So what is the down side that I’m missing? What does it take away to have non-Catholic Oblates?
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My question when I first heard of non-Catholic Oblates was: what are they not saying or teaching during formation or following which would make it such a comfortable place for non-Catholics to be? Are there points of doctrine or spirituality that get glossed over or not preached on at Mass on retreat weekends, or are there topics which they do not do retreats on because it might make for an uncomfortable situation?

That is one of the first potential down sides that popped into my head, but there are others as well.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
SuscipeMeDomine,

Non-Catholics cannot take the Holy Eucharist, nor can they accept significant aspects of Catholicism due to conflicts with their own faith. These are facts. Does it bother me that they become oblates? Absolutely not! I am exploring the Benedictine oblate discernment process with full knowledge that non-Catholics join the Order. Like you, I thrill at the prospect of their conversion to Catholicism if the oblate experience guides them to the Church. But for those others entrenched in their non-Catholic religious beliefs, I simply wonder why they wish to join a Catholic monastic order. Simply a matter of curiosity, nothing more.

Would you consider joining a Protestant, Jewish, or Buddhist order? I have no such interest as a Catholic fully committed to my faith. There is something good to be said for non-Catholics who cross the religious divide. They display great intellectual curiosity, an obvious desire to enhance their own spirituality, and considerable courage to tread the unfamiliar waters of Catholicism. God bless them on their journey!
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There are a surprising number of people from one or the other versions of protestantism who don’t regard congregational boundaries the same way we do. They often will simply cross over in a casual way, even to getting in our Holy Communion lines. This happens in a lot of places, especially places where they can either do so anonymously or with tacit recognition by another clergyman on campus and the like. Not much is said about it. It’s an interesting phenomenon but it does happen with regularity. It’s not that it’s an academic exercise–people who do this do it for what they think are the right reasons. They just inhabit a radically different mindset than most Catholics do and they don’t really realize the extent of it. I suspect that your non-catholic Benedictines are doing something like this.
 
Jason raises excellent questions. Unlike Dominican and Franciscan secular orders, Benedictine monasteries accept non-Catholic oblates. Do some Benedictine oblate directors place less emphasis on Catholic orthodoxy to promote ecumenism among oblates of various faiths? I believe fidelity to the Magisterium is absolutely critical, notably among small groups the size of an oblate fraternity. While I fully embrace the concept of non-Catholics in the Benedictine oblate community, the Catholic message must remain unaffected. In fact, once acquainted with the full magnificence of the Magisterium, non-Catholic oblates might be more disposed to conversion. Not a bad thing, eh?
 
By the way, I just viewed the documentary “Watchmen of the Night” on EWTN. The film takes viewers through a typical day in the life of Benedictine monks at the French Abbey of Sainte Madeleine du Barroux. Very inspiring!
 
jwinch2 said:
My question when I first heard of non-Catholic Oblates was: what are they not saying or teaching during formation or following which would make it such a comfortable place for non-Catholics to be? Are there points of doctrine or spirituality that get glossed over or not preached on at Mass on retreat weekends, or are there topics which they do not do retreats on because it might make for an uncomfortable situation?

That is one of the first potential down sides that popped into my head, but there are others as well.
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Absolutely no glossing over out here.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Jason raises excellent questions. Unlike Dominican and Franciscan secular orders, Benedictine monasteries accept non-Catholic oblates. Do some Benedictine oblate directors place less emphasis on Catholic orthodoxy to promote ecumenism among oblates of various faiths? I believe fidelity to the Magisterium is absolutely critical, notably among small groups the size of an oblate fraternity. While I fully embrace the concept of non-Catholics in the Benedictine oblate community, the Catholic message must remain unaffected. In fact, once acquainted with the full magnificence of the Magisterium, non-Catholic oblates might be more disposed to conversion. Not a bad thing, eh?
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My monastery is absolutely Catholic, but ecumenical in the spirit of JPII–we can dialog with other faiths, sure…but no compromise of our beliefs.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
By the way, I just viewed the documentary “Watchmen of the Night” on EWTN. The film takes viewers through a typical day in the life of Benedictine monks at the French Abbey of Sainte Madeleine du Barroux. Very inspiring!
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Absolutely fantastic show. Highly recommended.
 
Luigi,

I support ecumenism as advocated by Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. No problem. As a potential oblate, I simply desire affiliation with a monastery that is faithful to the Magisterium. I will pursue the issue diplomatically in my inquiries. I’m sure St. Leo Abbey will prove to be a fine bastion of Catholicism. Sounds like your “absolutely Catholic” monastery is made to order. Congratulations!

As for “Watchmen of the Night”, all I can say is magnificent! A beautiful monastery filled with men wholly dedicated to the life exemplified by St. Benedict.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Luigi,

I support ecumenism as advocated by Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. No problem. As a potential oblate, I simply desire affiliation with a monastery that is faithful to the Magisterium. I will pursue the issue diplomatically in my inquiries. I’m sure St. Leo Abbey will prove to be a fine bastion of Catholicism. Sounds like your “absolutely Catholic” monastery is made to order. Congratulations!

As for “Watchmen of the Night”, all I can say is magnificent! A beautiful monastery filled with men wholly dedicated to the life exemplified by St. Benedict.
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I agree completely on all counts.

My family has been “affiliated” (for lack of a better word) with a monastery for over 100 years. Bennies. Valombrosian. 🙂
 
That’s nice to have such a long-term relationship with a monastery. I imagine that gives you an inside connection with the Almighty, Luigi!
 
Luigi,

Perhaps you don’t have an inside track to heaven via your monastic connection. But I found a lady who was both a secular Franciscan and a Benedictine oblate. Double holy? While searching for info for my brother in Ohio, I came across this interesting obituary from May 2012:

*Jean Sinkuc
Masury woman worked closely with Franciscan order
…
She was a member and Eucharistic minister of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church in Sharon; and a former member of Church of the Sacred Heart in Sharon. She also belonged to St. Bernard’s Church, while living for 10 years in Springfield, Ohio.

As a member of the Third Order of the Secular Franciscan and a Benedictine Oblate, Jean was a formation director, teaching the new members and working very closely with the Franciscan Order.*

I did not think you could belong to two secular orders simultaneously. What do you think?
 
Tampa_Dave said:
Luigi,

Perhaps you don’t have an inside track to heaven via your monastic connection. But I found a lady who was both a secular Franciscan and a Benedictine oblate. Double holy? While searching for info for my brother in Ohio, I came across this interesting obituary from May 2012:

*Jean Sinkuc
Masury woman worked closely with Franciscan order
…
She was a member and Eucharistic minister of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church in Sharon; and a former member of Church of the Sacred Heart in Sharon. She also belonged to St. Bernard’s Church, while living for 10 years in Springfield, Ohio.

As a member of the Third Order of the Secular Franciscan and a Benedictine Oblate, Jean was a formation director, teaching the new members and working very closely with the Franciscan Order.*

I did not think you could belong to two secular orders simultaneously. What do you think?
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You can no longer belong to both, I believe.

Interestingly enough a famous Secular Franciscan (St Thomas More) was also an Oblate and a famous Oblate, as a matter of fact the Patroness of all Benedictine Oblates, although she was an olivetan Benedictine Oblate (like me 😃 ), Francesca Romana was also an OFS.
 
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