Benedictine Oblate #2

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Jason,

I am not sure whether to get a book limited to the strict wording of the Rule of St. Benedict, or one which provides scholarly commentary. I lean to the latter because I am such a neophyte to the world of monastic orders.

Any suggestions?
Buy Leonard Doyle’s translation. Fantastic. I suppose you could get a commentary, but the beauty of the Rule is its simplicity (other than the sections on the Divine Office, but remember that these were the set up for the Liturgy of the Hours for people that didn’t have a Liturgy of the Hours as we do now, ie, they are mainly of historical interest)
 
Thanks, Luigi. An Amazon seller has a new copy available for $2.45 plus shipping. It appears to be a simple booklet with an English translation of the Rule. Still considering a version with commentary, but I just may order this anyway. A small booklet of the Rule would provide a quick reference for review - I know people who always carry a pocket-sized copy of the U.S. Constitution on their person.
 
iloveangels,

I’m floored by your wealth of information. The Carmelite focus on Mary is quite appealing (the Memorare is my favorite prayer of intercession). Speaking from a practical standpoint, which Carmelite order offers laity greatest access for participation in monastic life? It does me no good to consider orders lacking fraternal chapters in my immediate area regardless of doctrinal appeal. Long distance membership may defeat, or minimally detract from, the very purpose of monastic affiliation. Notably, I live in Northern Virginia just outside Washington, DC, but I’m relocating to the Florida Gulf Coast by mid 2014. This certainly complicates the selection process.

The Franciscan Tertiaries of the Immaculate note that “only in the Immaculate does the Franciscan life come to the height of its perfection and enable one to attain the maximum conformity to Jesus, who is our whole sanctity (cf. Rom. 8:29).” Further, the Order professes that, with respect to tertiaries,"*t is enough that you want to live a more perfect, more Christ-like life, a life totally consecrated to our Lady. The Marian focus combined with Franciscan ideals is very powerful. Sadly, they only have four communities in the New England area.

For me, the Benedictines offer practical physical accessibility to the monastic life. Generally speaking, Marion adoration and fidelity to the Magisterium appear to be significant elements of Benedictine spirituality. That is why I’m focused on exploring the offerings of St. Leo Abbey. And I have yet to fully consider the viability and appeal of the Franciscans and Dominicans.*

Okay, another bit of this third order business:

These religious movements that the third orders come out of happened in a sequence in time–in history. First the hermits, then the monasteries, then the mendicants, then the congregations during the Reformation, then the congregations of teachers and finally now the new forms like Opus Dei and so on.

The Benedictines (big 500AD-1100AD) are monastic, meaning that their focus is around a certain monastery to whom they make their vows (promises in the case of an oblate). Their rule is approved. The monastery is established. The monastery usually belongs to the order via an association between monasteries. Monasteries have a great deal of autonomy. Benedictines are not particularly clerical. The rule of an abbot or an abbess is law within the monastery.

The Franciscans, Dominicans & Carmelites are mendicants (big 1200-1500), even though the Carmelites have some characteristics that are a little bit monastic. The Trinitarians, Servites, Augustinians & Norbertines are generally like very early mendicants and have some of both characteristics. Of these the Franciscans & Carmelites are the least clerical; the Augustinians, Dominicans & Norbertines probably the most clerical. Mendicants have both a rule that is approved and an organization that is approved as an order. The various houses of mendicants are hooked together via a hierarchy with a General Minister (or the like) under obedience to the Holy See. This was done because of developments in society and in the Church. They vow (promise in the case of members) obedience to the rule and the order. Obedience to the papacy is one of the assumptions carried by a promise of obedience to the rule and order.

After the era of the mendicants, the Holy See stopped designating religious movements as “orders,” with all that entails–with really only one exception–the Jesuits because of the emergency of the Reformation (approx 1600-1700AD)

All of the true “third orders” are from these early orders. Anything more modern that’s called a third order is really something else-- an affiliate or association membership to a congregation, institution or similar organization, with varying levels of approval from the bishop or Rome. The later groups fit some people very well and can be great for them, but they can be quite a bit different from the earlier groups.
 
And just to make all of this really crazy, some of the modern groups are modeled after the older groups in tone and affiliation. Thus the Franciscans of the Immaculate are a modern congregation, not an order. However they belong to the “Franciscan Family” since they have a Franciscan charism and a Franciscan-like mendicant focus. Thus belonging to them is going to have some properties of belonging to the Franciscans, and some properties that are more like belonging to a more modern congregation. You may have seen from the pictures that they have fairly uniform habits, even for the seculars, which is more important to the modern congregations than to the older orders, whose habits can vary considerably from house to house, be hit or miss, don’t match, etc etc.

Dominicans also have a Dominican family and some congregations of Dominican teaching sisters are associated with them this way.

Same thing with the other orders, although some like the Trinitarians are too small and minor for this to have happened to them.

[PS, the reason I specified both “clerical” and “monastic/mendicant/other” in the post just before this one, is that some people confuse clerical with monastic. It’s easy to do. For instance, Dominicans often live in fairly well-established houses and teach in big universities even though they are mendicants. It’s all about the kind of work they do, and the fact that they are clerical, meaning that there is a high emphasis on the authority of the ordained within the order.]
 
Thanks iloveangels for pointing me to the Servite web page. (post 197)
They have a confraternity for those who are geographically distant from their locations to join. Information is available at
servite.org/About/Confraternity.aspx
May God bless us all!
 
Thanks iloveangels for pointing me to the Servite web page. (post 197)
They have a confraternity for those who are geographically distant from their locations to join. Information is available at
servite.org/About/Confraternity.aspx
May God bless us all!
Thanks, Jean Therese. The confraternity won’t be part of the order. That’s an affiliation, not a third order.

This is going to be similar to the Carmelites who have third orders but also have scapular confraternities which are a different thing entirely.

Some of the members of the Franciscan Family also have Marian consecrations that are not third orders, in addition to having third orders.
 
Thanks iloveangels for pointing me to the Servite web page. (post 197)
They have a confraternity for those who are geographically distant from their locations to join. Information is available at
servite.org/About/Confraternity.aspx
May God bless us all!
Jeannetherese,

Everybody has things they’re supposed to be & do in this life. Most people don’t belong to third orders because they’re supposed to be someplace else. Huge numbers of people have a vocation as parish family Catholics, which is wonderful because we need good parishioners. Only a person and God knows what’s going on in this regard from a personal standpoint. Certainty comes from prayer, discernment and life.

Confraternities are great–just the right thing–for a lot of people. But they’re not third orders. We’re having sort of a technical conversation here about finding third orders, and that’s the context of my remarks in the previous post.
 
iloveangels,

I agree that many people have vocations within their parish. My oldest daughter just finished grad school and my youngest daughter will be an Ohio State senior. Our house is literally empty. My wife is involved in the Charismatic Renewal and a Catholic prayer group. I attend Latin Mass at a separate conservative parish. She is happy; I need more. As a lawyer practicing in Washington, DC, I acclimated myself to the materialistic hustle and bustle of metropolitan life over the years. My spiritual life suffered. I need to develop those traits often associated with monastic observance, including humility, obedience and discipline. I like structured environments and set regimens. I enjoy deep prayer and contemplation. I’ve immersed myself in Catholic literature to learn more about my Catholic faith. With guidance, commitment, and the fraternity of others, I hope to further develop my faith and spirituality. This is my rationale for exploring secular third orders.
 
iloveangels,

I agree that many people have vocations within their parish. My oldest daughter just finished grad school and my youngest daughter will be an Ohio State senior. Our house is literally empty. My wife is involved in the Charismatic Renewal and a Catholic prayer group. I attend Latin Mass at a separate conservative parish. She is happy; I need more. As a lawyer practicing in Washington, DC, I acclimated myself to the materialistic hustle and bustle of metropolitan life over the years. My spiritual life suffered. I need to develop those traits often associated with monastic observance, including humility, obedience and discipline. I like structured environments and set regimens. I enjoy deep prayer and contemplation. I’ve immersed myself in Catholic literature to learn more about my Catholic faith. With guidance, commitment, and the fraternity of others, I hope to further develop my faith and spirituality. This is my rationale for exploring secular third orders.
That’s the pattern, Dave, yes. Some people are very fulfilled at the parish and diocesan level, some need something different. It’s like something isn’t wrong, but it’s missing and you keep looking for it. Guidance, commitment and fraternity are the key words there.
 
iloveangels,

You obviously understand where I’m coming from. The highlight of my week is tomorrow’s Latin Mass. I arrive early, pray in solitude for nearly forty-five minutes, then enjoy the ensuing Eucharistic celebration of the Latin Mass. It leaves me wanting more throughout the balance of the week. A secular fraternity might very well fill the void.
 
iloveangels,

You obviously understand where I’m coming from. The highlight of my week is tomorrow’s Latin Mass. I arrive early, pray in solitude for nearly forty-five minutes, then enjoy the ensuing Eucharistic celebration of the Latin Mass. It leaves me wanting more throughout the balance of the week. A secular fraternity might very well fill the void.
I do. Don’t count the Carmelites out. They might be what you’re looking for. Or the Benedictines.

God bless you, Dave.
 
Thanks, iloveangels.

As I noted before, the Carmelite devotion to Mary is quite appealing. The issue is accessibility: you have to be near a local chapter to reap the benefits of fraternity. I exchanged e-mails a week ago with the oblate group at St. Leo Abbey. He recommended that I technically begin the discernment process with St. Leo Abbey now, but study with the oblates at Saint Benedict Abbey in Virginia as a guest until I relocate to the Florida Gulf Coast in 2014. In each case, I will be less than a one hour drive from the monastery. I also note that the Dominican and Franciscan orders have secular chapters near me in Virginia and Florida.

I’ve read interesting accounts about the diversity of membership from chapter to chapter within each respective order. One group of secular Franciscans may be much more liberal than the Franciscan group fifty miles away. Or one Benedictine chapter may have a much greater percentage of non-Catholics than a similar chapter in another location. If you expect to interact with the same collection of oblates or tertiaries over a period of years, the character of that particular group must be considered. My contact at St. Leo Abbey put me on their newsletter e-mail list, so I’m able to glean some information regarding their activities at the monastery. He seems very kind. My guess is that the variances are usually quite minimal since each fraternity operates under the same governing philosophy of their respective order.
 
Sad news today. Blue Cloud Abbey is closing.

bluecloud.org/FromTheAbbot.html

Please join me in praying that all of the monks find good homes in other monasteries, preferably with as many of them getting to stay together as possible.

Peace,
 
I wonder if the younger two would consider my monastery (even though they would have to switch to the Olivetans)?
 
I wonder if the younger two would consider my monastery (even though they would have to switch to the Olivetans)?
Hard to say. Off the top of my head I would expect that they will try to stay within their own congregation, but I could be wrong.

Have you heard anything about Blue Cloud Abbey prior to this? I believe Br. Benet Tvedten, OSB, author of books such as: How to Be a Monastic and Not Leave Your Day Job: An Invitation to Oblate Life and Share in the Kingdom: A Commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict for Oblates, was at Blue Cloud Abbey but I could be wrong. I think I remember reading that in one, if not both, of those books.
 
Hard to say. Off the top of my head I would expect that they will try to stay within their own congregation, but I could be wrong.

Have you heard anything about Blue Cloud Abbey prior to this? I believe Br. Benet Tvedten, OSB, author of books such as: How to Be a Monastic and Not Leave Your Day Job: An Invitation to Oblate Life and Share in the Kingdom: A Commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict for Oblates, was at Blue Cloud Abbey but I could be wrong. I think I remember reading that in one, if not both, of those books.
I don’t know, amico mio.:o
 
Jason,

From Paraclete Press: “Brother Benet Tvedten entered Blue Cloud Abbey in Marvin, South Dakota in 1958. He has been his community’s Director of Oblates for nearly thirty years, and held the position of Coordinator of the North American Association of Oblate Directors between 1995 and 1999.”

I think St. Leo Abbey (the object of my interest) has 24 monks at present. I’m not sure of their average age. With St. Leo University next door, however, I imagine they have a ready source for new monks.

God bless those monks from Blue Cloud Abbey in their quest for a new home.
 
By the way, its been about nine days since I wrote the lay director (?) of the Benedictine oblate program at St. Leo Abbey. He said he would send me a few “thoughtful” e-mails in response to my inquiry, then follow up with a phone call. His e-mail was quite positive, so I imagine he just hasn’t had the time to respond. He leads the oblate group and writes the their monthly newsletter (he immediately put me on the list to receive each newsletter).

I need to have patience, one of those esteemed virtues I hope to acquire from the Benedictines, along with humility and obedience, to name a few.

Nonetheless, I’m anxious for a game plan. I have a few books on Benedictine spirituality and monastic life in general, but I’m really excited to get hands on experience within a monastery. You might recall he suggested I attend meetings, etc., at Saint Benedict Monastery (Virginia) as a guest while actually commencing the discernment process with St. Leo Abbey. I believe its appropriate to wait for additional advice before I contact the Virginia monastery.

**** Paraclete Press has “The View From A Monastery: The Vowed Life and Its Cast of Many Characters” for sale at $3.00!! That is 81% off the $15.95 regular price.****
 
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