Benedictine Oblate #2

[Luigi_Daniele]

Welcome back. Hopefully you will be just the thing that the “near death” fraternity needed and maybe also exactly what the new fraternity needs. Good luck.

Pax et bonum

Thank you so much. I am waiting to hear back, and still haven’t, oddly enough.

Then, take the charism of the Order of Saint Benedict, Camaldolese Benedictines, Cistercians, etc. Humility. Obedience. Contemplation. Lectio Divina. Stability. I stink out loud at all of these things.

Interesting take. I need to think on this.
Could you do a similar analysis of Franciscans, by chance, amico mio?

 

[jwinch2]

Interesting take. I need to think on this.
Could you do a similar analysis of Franciscans, by chance, amico mio?

Unfortunately, I could not do it any sort of justice. I haven’t read a single thing on Franciscan spirituality and wouldn’t know where to begin.

Pax,

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Unfortunately, I could not do it any sort of justice. I haven’t read a single thing on Franciscan spirituality and wouldn’t know where to begin.

Pax,

Not a problem.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Dave,

I have it (on your suggestion) and am reading it now. It is so good that I am limiting myself to 1 chapter/day (although I am cheating like a mad dog ).

Excellent! I’m so glad you like the book. The Amazon reviews and my sneak peeks led me to believe it was a good book. St. Francis is depicted as strong and persevering, versus the mild and meek garden saint with robins chirping in his palms.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Excellent! I’m so glad you like the book. The Amazon reviews and my sneak peeks led me to believe it was a good book. St. Francis is depicted as strong and persevering, versus the mild and meek garden saint with robins chirping in his palms.

Exactly. This is what I find so attractive about the book.

An aside: I am experiencing the same problem that you had Dave. I have sent several e-mails now, with absolutely no response. I will give it a little time, I guess, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I’m a bit disappointed.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Now, let us apply this to improving our spiritual life. Should we follow the path of the saints who’s strengths are our strengths? Or, should we follow the path of the saints who’s strengths are our weaknesses?

I think your take on this is very different from mine. Mostly I think you’re combining things that I would separate: a vocation and spiritual growth.

In my own case, Benedictine spirituality is very comfortable for me. That’s who I am! I belong to a Franciscan parish, and despite spending lots of time around both friars and secular Franciscans, I never considered becoming one myself. It’s great for them, but that’s not the spirituality that’s mine. When I go to my abbey, I’m “home” in a way that’s different from my parish. The Benedictine Rule is a guide for my life and someplace where I can continue to explore and deepen my faith and my spiritual practices.

I can’t imagine that I would want to try and find a spirituality that doesn’t quite fit and use that as a way to make myself grow. That sounds like a path to misery rather than joy.

On the other hand, as something separate from a vocation, there is spiritual growth and I see that as something we all need. Take a look at Chapter 4 of the Rule. Do you have all those things mastered? Or are there areas where you could use the Rule as a guide to identifying places that need change and growth?

In another sense, there are areas for all of us in terms of spirituality. I did an exercise in a class one day that involved listing the broad areas we considered part of a balanced spirituality – things like prayer, community, service to others, study – and then listing specific items under each of those. I met with my spiritual director shortly after doing this exercise and showed him my chart. I asked if he thought I had hit on the major areas of the spiritual life. He thought I had, then asked me where I felt I was the strongest and where I felt I was the weakest. And once I had identified those, he asked if there was something concrete I could do in my weakest area. I came up with a concrete step I could take and it actually felt good to think that I was improving that part of my spiritual life.

If you’re a Benedictine at heart – or a Carmelite, Franciscan, Dominican, etc. – then why not immerse yourself in that life and grow within it?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

May I ask what is the biggest “draw(s)” of the Benedictine life for you? I can sense the Rule, obviously.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Jason,

You’ve described Benedictine practices that you stink at (Lectio Divina, etc.) and cite Dominican and Jesuit practices (teaching, studying) you have an aptitude for. Your analogy is fine so long as you confine it to the practical aspects of the referenced orders. What about spirituality? There is a big difference between studying and emulating Dominican, Benedictine, or Jesuit saints and scholars. All the monastic orders stress formal prayer routines, humility, and obedience (with variances), but intellectually and from the heart, you have to believe in one order’s spiritual path more than the others. Or at least I would assume so. If I had gone with a monastic order, I would likely have selected the Discalced Carmelites because I like their emphasis on Marian devotion and studies directed toward Carmelite saints (Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Therese of Lisieux). I would have learned their prayers and practices which, I believe, are not wholly dissimilar to the prayers and practices of the Benedictines, Franciscans, or Dominicans. But I would have much preferred studying Teresa of Avila than Benedict, Dominic, or Francis. Have I made any valid point whatsoever?

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I think your take on this is very different from mine. Mostly I think you’re combining things that I would separate: a vocation and spiritual growth.

In my own case, Benedictine spirituality is very comfortable for me. That’s who I am! I belong to a Franciscan parish, and despite spending lots of time around both friars and secular Franciscans, I never considered becoming one myself. It’s great for them, but that’s not the spirituality that’s mine. When I go to my abbey, I’m “home” in a way that’s different from my parish. The Benedictine Rule is a guide for my life and someplace where I can continue to explore and deepen my faith and my spiritual practices.

I can’t imagine that I would want to try and find a spirituality that doesn’t quite fit and use that as a way to make myself grow. That sounds like a path to misery rather than joy.

On the other hand, as something separate from a vocation, there is spiritual growth and I see that as something we all need. Take a look at Chapter 4 of the Rule. Do you have all those things mastered? Or are there areas where you could use the Rule as a guide to identifying places that need change and growth?

In another sense, there are areas for all of us in terms of spirituality. I did an exercise in a class one day that involved listing the broad areas we considered part of a balanced spirituality – things like prayer, community, service to others, study – and then listing specific items under each of those. I met with my spiritual director shortly after doing this exercise and showed him my chart. I asked if he thought I had hit on the major areas of the spiritual life. He thought I had, then asked me where I felt I was the strongest and where I felt I was the weakest. And once I had identified those, he asked if there was something concrete I could do in my weakest area. I came up with a concrete step I could take and it actually felt good to think that I was improving that part of my spiritual life.

If you’re a Benedictine at heart – or a Carmelite, Franciscan, Dominican, etc. – then why not immerse yourself in that life and grow within it?

You said it so much better than I did. My hat is off to you!

 

[jwinch2]

I think your take on this is very different from mine. Mostly I think you’re combining things that I would separate: a vocation and spiritual growth.

In my own case, Benedictine spirituality is very comfortable for me. That’s who I am! I belong to a Franciscan parish, and despite spending lots of time around both friars and secular Franciscans, I never considered becoming one myself. It’s great for them, but that’s not the spirituality that’s mine. When I go to my abbey, I’m “home” in a way that’s different from my parish. The Benedictine Rule is a guide for my life and someplace where I can continue to explore and deepen my faith and my spiritual practices.

I can’t imagine that I would want to try and find a spirituality that doesn’t quite fit and use that as a way to make myself grow. That sounds like a path to misery rather than joy.

On the other hand, as something separate from a vocation, there is spiritual growth and I see that as something we all need. Take a look at Chapter 4 of the Rule. Do you have all those things mastered? Or are there areas where you could use the Rule as a guide to identifying places that need change and growth?

In another sense, there are areas for all of us in terms of spirituality. I did an exercise in a class one day that involved listing the broad areas we considered part of a balanced spirituality – things like prayer, community, service to others, study – and then listing specific items under each of those. I met with my spiritual director shortly after doing this exercise and showed him my chart. I asked if he thought I had hit on the major areas of the spiritual life. He thought I had, then asked me where I felt I was the strongest and where I felt I was the weakest. And once I had identified those, he asked if there was something concrete I could do in my weakest area. I came up with a concrete step I could take and it actually felt good to think that I was improving that part of my spiritual life.

If you’re a Benedictine at heart – or a Carmelite, Franciscan, Dominican, etc. – then why not immerse yourself in that life and grow within it?

Thanks for that. Like I stated, my thoughts were incomplete at best and very premature. Just something that popped into my head and I needed to try to get out in an organized fashion. I’m not sure it could be classified as “my take” but rather “my random train of thoughts on a topic that I spend too much time thinking about”.

What I can say from my own experience is that when I was studying Dominican spirituality I found it interesting from an academic perspective but could tell that it was not resonating with me that strongly. When I started looking into Benedictine spirituality I could tell in relatively short order that there was something about it which was resonating within me and I believe part of that was that the foci of the OSB are areas in which I need a great deal of improvement. If I have any shot at getting to Heaven or getting my wife there, I need to improve those things, without question.

I don’t see it as a way to be miserable, I see it as looking honestly at the person I am today and who I have been throughout my life and finding a path which can hopefully help me to become the man God wants me to be.

Again, these are incomplete thoughts at best. However, the short version is that I do not believe that going in a direction that doesn’t match the person that I have been is a road to misery. Not if it can help me to become the person I wish to be. In support of that I can only look to myself and say that I am happier at the direction I am going now than I was 6 months ago.

Pax,

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Exactly. This is what I find so attractive about the book.

An aside: I am experiencing the same problem that you had Dave. I have sent several e-mails now, with absolutely no response. I will give it a little time, I guess, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I’m a bit disappointed.

It made me very anxious, at first. My lack of patience and pride caught up with me, however, so I literally blew them off over time. Fortunately, I consider it a blessing in disguise. I did not realize Opus Dei would overwhelm me with such positive force. Thank God for leading me to Opus Dei.

Your case is different. The Franciscan fraternity is your final selection after considerable reflection; I never experienced anything with the Benedictines. Nothing loss or gained in my situation. You have an investment with the Franciscans. You should probably do much quicker follow-ups than I contemplated with the Benedictines. As “near death” as the Franisancs were, are you certain they’re still intact and following a normal schedule? Do you have additional phone numbers or e-mail address of members you can contact?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

It made me very anxious, at first. My lack of patience and pride caught up with me, however, so I literally blew them off over time. Fortunately, I consider it a blessing in disguise. I did not realize Opus Dei would overwhelm me with such positive force. Thank God for leading me to Opus Dei.

Your case is different. The Franciscan fraternity is your final selection after considerable reflection; I never experienced anything with the Benedictines. Nothing loss or gained in my situation. You have an investment with the Franciscans. You should probably do much quicker follow-ups than I contemplated with the Benedictines. As “near death” as they were, are you certain they’re still intact and following a normal schedule? Do you have additional phone numbers or e-mail address of members you can contact?

Unfortunately, I do not Dave. I am going to be a bit patient, but if it mirrors your experience Dave, I will have to move on.

BTW, I have absolutely nothing against the Bennies in any way. If anything, I feel closer to their clergy/brothers than I do to the Franciscan clergy/brothers at their fraternity.

My final decisive consideration was the fact that I am just so awful at Lectio Divina, which is such a large part of Benedictinism. It was very frustrating. The first 3 steps: no problem. Contemplatio=nothing, zip, zero, niente.

I can honestly say that if I was good add it, I would have stayed with the Bennies…

 

[jwinch2]

Benedictine Distance Learning

idahomonks.org/bdl.htm

Courses in Monastic/Benedictine Spirituality.

THE 325C. 230. Early Monastic Sources.
Sr. Mary Forman, OSB, PhD.
Studies 10 major early monastic works, which represent some of the fathers to whom Benedict refers in the last chapter of his Rule. These are the texts which shape the thought and lives of monastic men and women over the centuries. For each of the 10 works, the syllabus indicates available editions, additional (optional) reading and assignments (a 3-5 page essay).

THE 225. The Rule of Benedict.
Fr. Terrence Kardong, OSB. MA, STL.

Using a syllabus keyed to his new (1996) and highly acclaimed commentary on the Rule of St. Benedict, Fr. Terrence introduces the student to the sources, structure and content of the rule.

THE 425B. Medieval Monastic Spirituality.
Fr. Hugh Feiss, OSB, STD.

Traces the development of Monastic spirituality from Benedict to the reform movements of the fifteenth century, with particular emphasis on the writers of the twelfth century. The readings will include various genres: treatises, prayers, lives.

THE 325A. History of US Benedictine Monks.
Fr. Joel Rippinger, OSB, STL, MA.

10 sessions survey the history of Benedictine monks in the United States. Each session includes considerable amount of readings, and then reflection and 1 or 2 page response to 3 or 4 assigned questions.

THE 125A. Introduction to the New Testament.
Dr. Anna Minore, PhD

This course will introduce students to the writings of the New Testament. In order to understand those writings, it will also refer to the Hebrew Scriptures and give some idea of the cultural and historical context of the time, as well as the history of the Jewish people. In addition, it will look to contemporary interpretations of the texts and put those texts into dialogue with issues in contemporary life.

THE 325E. American Benedictine Women’s History. Sr.
Judith Sutera, OSB, MA.

Using a bibliography of books, Vatican II documents and recent articles, 30 lessons lead the students to a knowledge of Benedictine women’s history in North America, while at the same time inviting the student to compare various eras and think critically about the contemporary implications of historical events.

THE 425A. Art and Monasticism.
Fr. Hugh Feiss, OSB, STD.

Beginning with the Rule of Benedict, studies both the theory (John of Damascus, Theophilus, Bernard of Clairvaux, Merton) and practice (Braunfels) of Monastic Art and Architecture. Because of the nature of the sources, an eclectic but stimulating series of sources and reflections on art and monasticism, focusing in particular on St. Bernard’s critique of figural art in Benedictine monasteries.

THE 325B. Nature of Benedictine Prayer.
Sr. Lucy Wynkoop, OSB, MA.

The Rule Benedict, ch. 20, speaks of purity of heart and tears of compunction.” Using a variety of resources which may be tailored to individual needs, this course looks at the influence of Scripture, Antony, Cassian and Evagrius on the RB, which emphasizes awareness of the presence of God. Qualities of Benedictine Prayer which aid awareness are attentiveness, listening, desire, imageless prayer and discernment. Joan Chittister describes Benedictine prayer as universal, converting, reflective and communal."

THE 325. Women Christian Mystics
Dr. Anna Minore, Ph.D.

This course centers on seven Christian Women Mystics: Hildegard of Bingen, Clare of Assisi, Mechthild of Magdeburg, Julian of Norwich, Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila, and Therese of Lisieux. For each mystic, students will be asked to read introductory material and a selection from the mystic’s own writings. The goal of the course is to enable the student to study mystics’ reports of their own experiences, and in so doing to explore those experiences in light of their cultural, ethical, and theological content.

THE 325: Communion of Saints: Theology of the Church
Fr. Hugh Feiss, OSB, STD

This course seeks to understand the mystery of the church by studying the development of the ecclesiology in the NT and throughout church history culminating in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Vatican II (Lumen Gentium). Like that document, the course considers “the communion of God’s holy people” in a wide sense and so includes the communion of saints including eschatology, and the current theology of communion and its relation to ecumenism.

THE 325P: Living and Praying the Psalms
Instructor: Fr. Kenneth C. Hein, O.S.B., D.Th.

Through fifteen sessions requiring about six hours each of study, writing, and interaction, the student is introduced to the Psalms of the Old Testament as well as some of the canticles of the Bible. In addition to becoming acquainted with the content of the Psalms, the student will perform exercises to promote his/her personal assimilation of the Psalms in life and in prayer.

Looks interesting.

Peace,

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Jason,

It looks overwhelming to this simpleton.

 

[jwinch2]

Jason,

It looks overwhelming to this simpleton.

Like any other series of college courses I imagine. I may look into a class or two down the road when I make greater progress through my own pile of Benedictine books and my Bible commentaries. At this time though, I have more than enough on my to do list.

Peace,

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Are the courses given on-line? I know they have a Certificate tin Carmelite Studies that can be earned on-line. I’m not exactly sure if the Certificate does for you, however, other than greatly aid your understanding of the Order. It would certainly aid one teaching classes to aspirants to the Order.

 

[jwinch2]

Are the courses given on-line? I know they have a Certificate tin Carmelite Studies that can be earned on-line. I’m not exactly sure if the Certificate does for you, however, other than greatly aid your understanding of the Order. It would certainly aid one teaching classes to aspirants to the Order.

I believe they are online. Agreed on the rest. There is probably no tangible benefit other than helping you to understand the path you have chosen and hopefully live it better.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

As a follow-up:

can someone give me a few “how to” sentences on Lectio Divina?

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I still have to advise the various Orders I will not be attending further meetings. I’m 100% committed to pursuing my interest with Opus Dei. I feel bad about it. The Carmelites, in particular, offer a way of life I find so very intriguing. It just so happens I find Opus Dei to be a better personal fit. I still anticipate reading the works of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross. I’m also adding Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection to the mix, as time allows.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Luigi,

I’ll leave those better-suited to the task like Jason and iloveangels to advise you on Lectio Devina. I have yet to do the Chaplet of Divine Mercy to compliment my recitation of the Rosary.