Bernie: Pope Francis Is a Socialist

[Darryl1958]

“Well, that’s proof of communist leanings! What further evidence do we need?” (…tears his garment…)

Would you feel comfortable if you were invited into a home for Christmas turkey, and the house was decorated with pictures of Adolph?

I know I wouldn’t.

Mao Tse Tung was a more prolific mass murder than Adolph was.

 

[Latias]

Would you feel comfortable if you were invited into a home for Christmas turkey, and the house was decorated with pictures of Adolph?

I know I wouldn’t.

Mao Tse Tung was a more prolific mass murder than Adolph was.

If would replace Hitler with Stalin, you certainly would not be comfortable being in such a home, but I would with Stalin. And also with Chairman Mao. That would bean interesting conversation starter, and I would be grateful for having something interesting to discuss.

Most of the deaths attributed to Mao come from the Great Leap Forward. Unless you think that constitutes “murder”, instead of the historical equivalent of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence and policy blunders, then Mao was not more prolific mass murderer than Hitler.

I am not sure why you are even addressing me, since you are all over the place from kid’s cartoons to Boxer rebellions, and everything in fact except for the fact that Bernie Sanders vision of socialism has a lot in common with the Nazi economic vision introduced into 1930’s Austria.

So that is it? Is it just a claim that Bernie Sanders has an affinity towards social welfare programs and Keynesian economics as the Nazis had? That’s trivial and benign. Since, according to you, Sweden is “socialist” and Sweden has not committed genocide or launched wars of aggression, then I do not understand the bugaboo about a fundamentally benign economic philosophy.

As for the Boxer Rebellion, you are the one who brought up Mao, and the aftermath of that rebellion certainly affirms Mao’s wisdom. If you do not about know the Boxer Rebellion, then you are the one ignorant of history.

 

[Darryl1958]

If would replace Hitler with Stalin, you certainly would not be comfortable being in such a home, but I would with Stalin. And also with Chairman Mao. That would bean interesting conversation starter, and I would be grateful for having something interesting to discuss.

Of course you would.

Most of the deaths attributed to Mao come from the Great Leap Forward. Unless you think that constitutes “murder”, instead of the historical equivalent of involuntary manslaughter due to negligence and policy blunders, then Mao was not more prolific mass murderer than Hitler.

Communism is a blunder that well-meaning people make that have ended in the death of millions.
That is the world that progressives want us all to progress through one more time.

So that is it? Is it just a claim that Bernie Sanders has an affinity towards social welfare programs and Keynesian economics as the Nazis had? That’s trivial and benign. Since, according to you, Sweden is “socialist” and Sweden has not committed genocide or launched wars of aggression, then I do not understand the bugaboo about a fundamentally benign economic philosophy.

It is was it is.
I haven’t mentioned Sweden once either, btw.
What I have been discussing is how closely Sanders program is to the economic program that the Nazis sold the Austrians on, like the lady in the video discussed. High tax rate, equality of economic income, cradle-to-grave welfare with large scale redistribution of the wealth, scapegoating the economic powers that be, etc. etc.
I don’t see Bernie Sanders as particularly evil, nor the Pope as particularly evil for sharing the same kind of economic vision that Sanders shares.I disagree with those vision, and I am open to arguments whether or not the Pope truly does share such a vision with Sanders as Sanders has asserted.
But no, I am calling neither Sanders, nor the Pope, particularly evil for disagreeing with me.

As for the Boxer Rebellion, you are the one who brought up Mao, and the aftermath of that rebellion certainly affirms Mao’s wisdom. If you do not about know the Boxer Rebellion, then you are the one ignorant of history.

I know about the Boxer Rebellion. Mao was a communist like the people you asked me about, and that is where I was agreeing with you that leftist, like Obama, like yourself even, don’t really feel disturbed about the odd icon hanging around the house to these mass murdering communist thugs, but that is about as far as Sanders, or Obama’s affection for Trosky and the like would go.

I also know that you are getting a little upset now, but that does not mean I am any more willing to discuss the Boxer Rebellion or the Rites Controversy, or the Opium Wars with you on this thread about the socialism of Bernie Sanders and the Pope.

That is just going way too far out in left field, if you will pardon the pun.

 

[Latias]

It is was it is.
I haven’t mentioned Sweden once either, btw.
What I have been discussing is how closely Sanders program is to the economic program that the Nazis sold the Austrians on, like the lady in the video discussed. High tax rate, equality of economic income, cradle-to-grave welfare with large scale redistribution of the wealth, scapegoating the economic powers that be, etc. etc.
I don’t see Bernie Sanders as particularly evil, nor the Pope as particularly evil for sharing the same kind of economic vision that Sanders shares.I disagree with those vision, and I am open to arguments whether or not the Pope truly does share such a vision with Sanders as Sanders has asserted.
But no, I am calling neither Sanders, nor the Pope, particularly evil for disagreeing with me.

So Sweden doesn’t have a “high tax rate, equality of economic income, cradle-to-grave welfare with large scale redistribution of the wealth”? But if Sweden has those attributes and if it is considered “socialist”, then it is irrational to fulminate against that type of socialism. Essentially the video is a reductio ad Hitlerum towards any state with the enumerated attributes.

I know about the Boxer Rebellion. Mao was a communist like the people you asked me about, and that is where I was agreeing with you that leftist, like Obama, like yourself even, don’t really feel disturbed about the odd icon hanging around the house to these mass murdering communist thugs, but that is about as far as Sanders, or Obama’s affection for Trosky and the like would go.

I also know that you are getting a little upset now, but that does not mean I am any more willing to discuss the Boxer Rebellion or the Rites Controversy, or the Opium Wars with you on this thread about the socialism of Bernie Sanders and the Pope.

That is just going way too far out in left field, if you will pardon the pun.

I am not upset. Regarding irrelevance you are the one who brought up Mao in order to denigrate Barack Obama. Since Bernie Sanders advocates a broad gamut of government programs and since Sweden’s political economy is similar to what Sanders supposedly advocates, then Sweden is relevant to the thread. Also, some have contended that “socialism” refers to government programs and public services, and since there are Pokemon Centers are a public service offered free to trainers, then it is relevant to see whether their existence is tantamount to “socialism”.

I feel rather indifferent to Mao as he does not evoke feelings of righteous indignation, the same way that you are likely indifferent to Rhee, Pinochet, and Suharto.

That is just going way too far out in left field, if you will pardon the pun.

And yeah, I am a fan of Clayton Kershaw, Chris Sale, Cliff Lee, C.C. Sabathia, Cole Hamels, Madison Bumgardner, David Price, Randy Johnson, and Barack Obama.

 

[ChristianDude]

That’s my understanding of it too. Social democracy to me, just implies that there is also a commitment to the good of the wider community and not only to individual prosperity. I don’t have any problem with such an ideology as long as that social responsibility is achieved democratically, through consensus and cooperation and not the dictates of a totalitarian government.

Most of this to me is just commonsense rather than some kind of commitment to ideology. Our kids will have a better world to live if not only they, but also their peers, are well educated, healthy, well paid and well housed - it’s really that simple.

Nothing irks me more than political discourse that would subjugate the achieving of that “common good” to some ideological test. If we can achieve this common good in a moral way, who cares what ideological label somebody gives to those policies?! I very passionately couldn’t care less.

Social democracy is a distinct ideology, but I see your point.

 

[CaptFun]

Then do Socialism HIS way Bernie!

e.g. –

Drop the IRS and mandatory confiscation … and pass a basket for various “programs” … for people to make free will offerings to!

And if you become President … just use that “bully pulpit” to encourage high ideals of your people … without any real enforcement arm*.

** I have sinned. But I never fear the Swiss Guards coming to my house. *

 

[seekerz]

So basically, fascism.

How so?

 

[seekerz]

Social democracy is a distinct ideology, but I see your point.

Guess I was trying to say that I personally shun allegiance to ideology, but based on my understanding of social democracy it hardly amounts to an insult to be called a socialist.