Best News Segment on the Pandemic

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And if nothing else, it is wildly irresponsible to speak-out against the possibility that the virus got out of a lab when a natural origin has not been conclusively demonstrated.
Actually it is the other way around. It is irresponsible to exaggerate the mere “possibility” the virus came from a lab when such an origin has not been conclusively demonstrated. But yours is the better story, and in times like this people do crave a good story.
 
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Actually it is the other way around. It is irresponsible to exaggerate the mere “possibility” the virus came from a lab when such an origin has not been conclusively demonstrated. But yours is the better story, and in times like this people do crave a good story.
Nothing has been conclusively demonstrated. That’s the point. Nothing is a story, it’s science not “exaggeration” that some are trying to discuss here and which evidentially some prefer not to do but to marginalize instead. Unfortunate.

Of course there will be branding by some on anyone who suggests the possibility the coronavirus might have originated as a bioweapon developed in a secretive Wuhan lab or an accidnetial leak from a lab as deranged conspiracy theorist (a propaganda approach first popularized in the 1960s by the CIA to discredit controversial views). People are of course entitled to their opinions, but this isn’t a story, which is only reinforced by dissenting views from the scientific community, including those in “ground zero”, China and from prestigious research institutes. As people die around the world, the nations will look to the CCP and ask what happened, as the WH itself have ask scientists to probe the origin of the disease.


Perhaps of relevance for evaluating the plausibility of the zoonotic transfer hypothesis is the (reported) initial reaction from Shi Zhengli.

“Shi—a virologist who is often called China’s ‘bat woman’ by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years—walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. ‘I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,’ she says. ‘I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.’ Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical areas of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir for many viruses. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, ‘could they have come from our lab?’
 
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As people die around the world, the nations will look to the CCP and ask what happened, as the WH itself have ask scientists to probe the origin of the disease.
That is and must be done in all epidemics.
That takes some time and diligence in gathering and analyzing evidence.
Getting to the truth is hindered by premature speculation and conspiracy theorizing.
People are of course entitled to their opinions
About matters of fact? Opinions contrary to fact are errors.
 
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That is and must be done in all epidemics.
That takes some time and diligence in gathering and analyzing evidence.
Getting to the truth is hindered by premature speculation and conspiracy theorizing.
Science is now conspiracy theorizing? Some just don’t like to look at facts that won’t meet their narratives is the problem here.

There are “people” that they themselves out as being science-driven, as being smarter, they think they’re smarter but they won’t look at facts that won’t meet their narratives. You see it all the time.
Not about matter of fact. Opinions contrary to fact are not an entitlement; they are errors
Again, we don’t know the facts one way or another. Opinions are not errors, they are simply opinions which could be an error or a non-error.

People need to hear counterarguments, whether or not it’s right, you need to hear it when searching and attempting to discover the true facts and truth.
 
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Science is now conspiracy theorizing?
Science is not conspiracy theorizing. the difference between the two is stark.
we don’t know the facts one way or another.
So let’s study without bias and await results. In particular, let’s await results before proposing policy to address them.
People need to hear counterarguments,
Again, the difference between an argument and speculative conspiracy-theorizing is not subtle.
 
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Science is not conspiracy theorizing. the difference between the two is stark.
Then some should labeling scientific studies or scientist as such maybe.
So let’s study without bias and await result
That could be directed to quite a few.
Again, the difference between an argument and speculative conspiracy-theorizing is not subtle.
And the difference between science and counter arguments and data and conspiracy theorizing is not subtle either.
 
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That is and must be done in all epidemics.
That takes some time and diligence in gathering and analyzing evidence.
Getting to the truth is hindered by premature speculation and conspiracy theorizing.
Science is now conspiracy theorizing?
No, conspiracy theorizing is taking a bit of science and then theorizing about a conspiracy. Unfortunately it is easy to convince people who do not understand the science that the bit of it you have cited really does support the conclusion.
Some just don’t like to look at facts that won’t meet their narratives is the problem here.
And some like to take a few facts and spin a convincing narrative that is not rigorously justified. You think we are denying facts. But actually we are denying the conclusions you draw from those facts. Big difference.
Again, we don’t know the facts one way or another.
Take to heart what you just wrote here, for it contains a truth which you have not embraced.
People need to hear counterarguments, whether or not it’s right, you need to hear it when searching and attempting to discover the true facts and truth.
This is an appeal to arrogance. The appeal goes like this: “Even though you have never formally studied epidemiology or infectious diseases as a professional, you are smart enough to arbitrate between professional arguments and decide which one you think is more likely based on the content of their arguments (never mind that you don’t really understand 75% of the arguments).
 
Your reply is not surprising.

I was hoping for a scientific response with facts to the numerous studies posted and the facts presented vs opinions, and generalized marginalization, which quite frankly a big waste time here.
 
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Your reply is not surprising.

I was hoping for a scientific response with facts to the numerous studies posted and the facts presented vs opinions, and generalized marginalization, which are quite frankly a big waste time here.
Despite posting that SARs/COV-2 likely originated in a lab, you have not posted a single authoritative scientific study that says so. The facts in those studies may be true, and I am not questioning them. But the conclusion you draw from them is not what you state. As I said, it gets tiring pointing out your errors, so excuse me if I don’t take a deep dive into the paper uploaded by Zerohedge.
 
Despite posting that SARs/COV-2 likely originated in a lab, you have not posted a single authoritative scientific study that says so.
Wrong, completely wrong. I guess that is what happens you miss it when you don’t attempt to read the studies.

I am not drawing any conclusions, unlike yourself.
As I said, it gets tiring pointing out your errors, so excuse me if I don’t take a deep dive into the paper uploaded by Zerohedge.
Ha? My errors? Comical. Yes, PLEASE dive into that study and you’ll find your error in the statement you made above, and dive into the other studies as well while you are at it to see some facts here and why there is a ongoing debate and questioning around the origins of the lab. Sorry but not everyone is going to agree with what you are attempting to sell here as definite.
 
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Maybe some shouldn’t blindly believe everything they read? You know like the WHO, who has a pretty solid reputation…the virus is not transmittable among humans…alluring, what a convincing narrative!
 
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Here’s it is for you.

Facts:
  • CCP told the WHO the virus was not transmittable between humans. It already knew it was.
  • WHO broadcast this around the world as well as keeping borders freely open.
Talk about a CCP mouthpiece, oh my mistake an alluring and convincing argument!

Does the WHO still stand by tweeting this out, and doing so without all the facts and evidence…again blinding believing everything, right?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Notice “decisions on evidence base”…
 
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Here’s it is for you.

Facts:
  • CCP told the WHO the virus was not transmittable between humans. It already knew it was.
Your criticism of the CCP is quite justified.
  • WHO broadcast this around the world as well as keeping borders freely open.
Since the WHO was not allowed on site, they could only report what the CCP told them. As for keeping borders open, the WHO has no authority to close borders. They can only give they guidelines that nations are free to ignore. As for the WHO trusting the CCP, their tweet clearly indentifies the source of their info. Various nations are free to apply whatever skepticism they wish. The WHO did not add any credibility to the CCP claim other than reporting what it was. If you think the CCP should have been more skeptical, then the rest of the world should have been more skeptical, because the WHO reported exactly who said what.
Does the WHO still stand by tweeting this out, and doing so without all the facts and evidence…
They tweeted out what they knew at the time. People were asking. The WHO updated their reports as soon as they had additional information. It is an ongoing process. Relaying what the CCP told them is not the same as putting the credibility of the WHO behind it.
 
CCP told the WHO the virus was not transmittable between humans. It already knew it was.
Do you have documentation for that fact?

The tweet from WHO does not say what you said.
It notes that absence of clear evidence for human-to-human transmission in preliminary investigations. There is no one in a responsible position who would ever confuse that statement with the statement that the virus is not transmissible between humans.

In fact WHO warned nations of that possibility.

 
Relaying what the CCP told them is not the same as putting the credibility of the WHO behind it.
The WHO blindly accepted it, and tweeted it out. If they didn’t know for a fact or conclude themselves they should have not tweeted such information. They acted as CCPs mouthpiece.
 
Your criticism of the CCP is quite justified.
Why?
It takes time to recognize the appearance of a new viral disease, its origin, and its mode of propagation. And it takes time to become convinced that some extremely rare event is actually occurring and to disclose it. Can you knowledgeably say that the process in this case was different as compared to other recent pandemics? Is this science or conspiracy theorizing?

The reality is that many nations, even in the aftermath of obtaining an abundance of information from China, inexcusably repeated this same processes of disbelief. The information available made it easy to contain the contagion - just as Hong Kong did. Those that ignored it are paying a heavy price. And some now seek to divert attention from their own failures.
The WHO blindly accepted it
Do you have evidence that the content of the tweet is untrue?
 
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Do you have documentation for that fact?
How do you think the WHO found out? How many deaths were there at the time. Was everyone eating infected bats or pangolins or snakes from the wet markets?
In fact WHO warned nations of that possibility.
Direct source from the WHO? Why didn’t they tweet it, and why did they tweet contradictory information then on Jan 14th, 4 days later than the claim in the Guardian that they warned nations it could be contacted by human-to-human transmission?

They were quick to put out the information the CCP was providing on main stream media seen by millions but yet also had different information beforehand the didn’t share on Twitter…interesting!
 
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