M
Melvin
Guest
Okay…European Jew, or Sephardic Jew?
King David descended from Abraham…would he have appeared Arabic in his features and coloring? Would Abraham?
There are Jews in Ethiopia, too…
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King David descended from Abraham…would he have appeared Arabic in his features and coloring? Would Abraham?
There are Jews in Ethiopia, too…
D
distracted
Guest
True, but mostly state government. And not all states were the same, obviously. I never really believed in the power of the Federal gov (seems its gotten out of hand and maybe in some respects it has…) but @ least the federal gov made the states enforce de-segregation when they refused to do so… And it was at the federal court level that segregation was finally abolished… and civil rights were “granted”. Actually, rights should not have to be granted because they are given to us by God, but we humans, well, we are slow sometimes…
Yeah, really pathetic. Now that i’ve read about the plight of the Blacks in the early years of this country, i want to read about the Indians also… but after reading the horrific things that Blacks had to endure, i am not up to reading about other injustices… I need a little of a breather… I mean, its pretty uncomfortable reading about what other Whites have done to others based on race only… I may become racist against my own race… if i haven’t already…
That thought occurred to me when i read the biographies of C. Thomas, T. Marshall, etc… that the Blacks must have a very difficult time trying to explain where they are coming from to Whites who do not (cannot really) understand… because they have not walked a mile in those shoes…
sounds wonderful, but ignorant people still act ignorantly… And its kind of a vicious circle because when a person is oppressed, he/she gets angry at the oprressor, gets discouraged, etc… then resents the oppressor, etc… Then the oppressor, when dealing w/ the oppressed, only sees the anger… and becomes afraid, agitated, doesn’t want to deal with the oppressed… forgets that there is a valid reason for the anger, distrust…Be free, be sane and love people. How’s that sound?
Do you sometimes feel that Blacks will never really trust white people?? If i was Black, i don’t think i ever would, generally speaking… i mean, i would try to give everyone a chance to prove him or herself… but would find it very difficult to fully trust…
K
kim3260
Guest
Honor your hertiage, keep your family traditions, but unless you are a Natrualized Citizen, born elsewhere, you are not an African American, Irish American, German American, Chinese American or whatever
YOU ARE AN AMERICAN
YOU ARE AN AMERICAN
A
Ahimsa
Guest
“Sephardic” is from the Hebrew word for “Spain (and Portugal)”, which, last I checked, was actually still in Europe.
M
MilesXpisti
Guest
Can’t happen, so long as people have eyes and see others before they speak to them. The fact of the matter is, scientifically, babies have been show to differentiate in terms of race, not in the prejudicial sense, merely as showing that they can and do tend to align in social groups with people of like ethnicity in those instances where “cultural diversity” is not a forced social construct.
I think these are one in the same; the black man celebrates his African heritage, the white celebrates his European heritage. There’s nothing wrong with this, or even showing a preference, just so long as doing so doesn’t plant the belief that one is better than the other.
This may work in some European countries, but for the large majority of people in America, diversity and genetic unity among ethnic groups has long since gone the way of the dodo. I’m one of the few people I know of that knows their geneaology more than two generations, and doesn’t have any Native American/African American/Asiatic blood.
This is the polar extreme of those “out to save the white race from miscegenation” and represents just as much an attempt at eugenics. I have no particular problem with interracial marriages, so long as the people recognize that it’s going to cause problems in some areas, and that they do it because they love one another and not to make a “statement.” I myself tend to stick very much with my own ethnic group (I’m 50% English/25% Irish/25% Saxon German), just out of visual preference. Those features displayed are the ones I find attractive. I don’t see how this is bad.
R
Ramalama
Guest
I think the problem with all this is we’re trying to change other peoples attitudes by force. My objective it to be the best Catholic I can be, which includes treating all people with love and kindness. Maybe some of that will wear off onto others.
B
blacktiger057
Guest
Well, really, everyone’s a little bit racist. We all make racist remakrs, sometimes without even realizing it. We have been brainwashed with society’s view on people when we were young. IT’s very difficult to get rid of these ideas.
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
Combat racism? No clue, education or something. Combat racists? Well we have a few ideas around these parts
M
Melvin
Guest
Okay, I give! But you know what I mean? Some Jewish people have very dark complexions, some very white (or light, to be politically correct)! Often on our crucifixes Jesus is portrayed with European light-colored features, while in at least some icons he is portrayed as having much darker coloring.“Sephardic” is from the Hebrew word for “Spain (and Portugal)”, which, last I checked, was actually still in Europe.
I guess it could just be a tan…
T
thechrismyster
Guest
I just have to post a rambling from George Carlin here…
“So, let me tell you how I handle some of these speech issues. First of all, I say “black.” I say “black” because most black people prefer “black.” I don’t say “people of color.” People of color sounds like something you see when you’re on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people. If you’re not willing to say “colored people,” you shouldn’t be saying “people of color.”
Besides, the whole idea of color is BS anyway. What should we call white people? “People of no color?” Isn’t pink a color? In fact, white people are not really white at all, they’re different shades of pink, olive, and beige. In other words, they’re colored. And black people are rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are. They’re dark brown, but they’re considered white people. What’s going on here? May I see the color chart? “People of color” is an awkward, (edited), liberal-guilt phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, “people of size?”
By the way, I think the whole reason we’re encouraged in this country to think of ourselves as “black and white” (instead of “pink and brown,” which is what we are) is that black and white are complete opposites that cannot be reconciled. Black and white can never come together. Pink and brown, on the other hand, might just stand a chance of being blended, might just come together. Can’t have that! Doesn’t fit the plan.
I also don’t say “African-American.” I find it completely illogical, and furthermore it’s confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren’t black. They’re like the people in India, they’re dark brown white people. But they’re Africans. So why wouldn’t an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an African-American? The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all he’d find plenty of company, but couldn’t he also be called an African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South-African guy could come here and call himself African-American just to **** off black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South-African-American? Or a South-African-African-American?
Alright, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she’s an African-Jamaican, right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she’s a Jamaican-American. And yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he’d think she was an African-American. Unless he knew her personally in which case he would have to decide between African-Jamaican-American and Jamaican-African-American. Ya know? It’s just so much liberal BS. Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.”
“So, let me tell you how I handle some of these speech issues. First of all, I say “black.” I say “black” because most black people prefer “black.” I don’t say “people of color.” People of color sounds like something you see when you’re on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people. If you’re not willing to say “colored people,” you shouldn’t be saying “people of color.”
Besides, the whole idea of color is BS anyway. What should we call white people? “People of no color?” Isn’t pink a color? In fact, white people are not really white at all, they’re different shades of pink, olive, and beige. In other words, they’re colored. And black people are rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are. They’re dark brown, but they’re considered white people. What’s going on here? May I see the color chart? “People of color” is an awkward, (edited), liberal-guilt phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, “people of size?”
By the way, I think the whole reason we’re encouraged in this country to think of ourselves as “black and white” (instead of “pink and brown,” which is what we are) is that black and white are complete opposites that cannot be reconciled. Black and white can never come together. Pink and brown, on the other hand, might just stand a chance of being blended, might just come together. Can’t have that! Doesn’t fit the plan.
I also don’t say “African-American.” I find it completely illogical, and furthermore it’s confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren’t black. They’re like the people in India, they’re dark brown white people. But they’re Africans. So why wouldn’t an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an African-American? The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all he’d find plenty of company, but couldn’t he also be called an African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South-African guy could come here and call himself African-American just to **** off black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South-African-American? Or a South-African-African-American?
Alright, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she’s an African-Jamaican, right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she’s a Jamaican-American. And yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he’d think she was an African-American. Unless he knew her personally in which case he would have to decide between African-Jamaican-American and Jamaican-African-American. Ya know? It’s just so much liberal BS. Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.”
S
Sixtus
Guest
Cat posted:
We are all by one definition or another different. Being committed to supporting the lifestyle choices, biologically and socially determined differences that makes us all unique is in my view the way of Christ.
Opposing prejudice of any sort is I believe the duty of every Christian.Tragically and ironically, it is often Christians who are among the most prejudiced, so commitment to diversity and respect for individual differences, often bring one into arguements with fellow Christians. Expect a bumpy ride. Good luck
By being committed to oppose any sort of prejudice wherever it may arise. Being interested in people and committed to treating them with respect for their individual differences
We are all by one definition or another different. Being committed to supporting the lifestyle choices, biologically and socially determined differences that makes us all unique is in my view the way of Christ.
Opposing prejudice of any sort is I believe the duty of every Christian.Tragically and ironically, it is often Christians who are among the most prejudiced, so commitment to diversity and respect for individual differences, often bring one into arguements with fellow Christians. Expect a bumpy ride. Good luck
J
jc-servant
Guest
It appears that you are looking at “black” as a color rather than a cultural identity. In America there were “black” communities just as there were Irish and Italian and German, etc. There are still shared cultural markers that other Americans don’t share in each of these groups. It does not mean that recognizing them equals bias against another group.
“White” is an artificial racial name just as “black” is an artificial racial grouping that has no genetic parameters when used in that context. I believe that there is confusion because in the US “black” is sometimes used to designate “race” and other times “culture” without clear distinctions between the two. When the term “white” is used it is always racial because there is no such thing a generic “white” culture. Don’t even get me started on “Asian” as an identifier because it has lumped even more diverse groups of people together for convenience in the US.
Blacks in this country have not yet had even a century of reading about achievements of people like ourselves and of seeing ourselves achieving in mainstream American society. Pardon us if we still get a little thrill from seeing someone like ourselves who has done well in life. I don’t think most white people here understand our “pride” in the same way as we see it because seeing white people with their achievements visible or recognized is nothing new in the US. Various ethnic groups from Europe have “melted” into the general society over the years by merely learning English and certain customs while “blacks” have remained visibly different and “other.”
I think the closest analogy for an American Catholic to black cultural pride might be when Kennedy was elected as the 1st Catholic President. There was some serious “pride” going on and it did not mean that Catholics were hating on Protestants. They just identified with Kennedy because of shared experience and faith. I actually had an older black man who I prosecuted express his “pride” in my being a good lawyer because I was only the 2nd black lawyer in the county! I don’t think anyone else would want to shake the hand of the prosecutor who just sent them to prison.
There is a multi-part documentary that recently aired on cable again called “Black in America.” Seeing it reminded me of how recently non-white faces began showing up regularly on TV and in movies in serious roles. It is discouraging to have to search the TV guide and circle the few shows that have some black people (mostly comedies), but my family was doing that right into the 1980’s. MTV didn’t show any blacks except Michael Jackson for many years after it debuted in 1980. All “non-white” groups in the US have similar stories.
Pride in one’s heritage does not have to equal disparaging or discounting someone else’s heritage. It helps all of us to see someone who we can identify with in some manner who has succeeded. I like to watch the St. Patrick’s Day parades and I hope they inspire positive feelings in all people whose ancestors came from Ireland and built good lives in America. As a Catholic I love to read the lives of saints because I can identify with them through my faith. Likewise as a black woman I love to read stories about blacks and women who have achieved great things. It does not mean that I don’t also find stories about people different from myself inspiring also.
So long as people won’t admit that we all have biases and prejudices inside, we are not going to be able to have a real chance at solving this problem. How many people who say that they are “not prejudiced” don’t ever socialize outside of their racial or ethnic group? How many go home to racially segregated neighborhoods and worship in churches were everyone is just alike? How many have never had someone of a different race into their homes except as a worker? How many have felt the need to point out that they have one “black friend?” How many would still flip out if their kid wanted to marry someone different and then blame it on fear for the trouble that “other” people would give the couple?
I see comments on this forum quite often from people with obvious racial biases who cannot admit it. The real problem comes from having a bias that one cannot recognize because then the person cannot ensure that they don’t act negatively based upon that bias. We learned in the police academy that everyone holds some biases inside that they must acknowledge so that they can avoid treating someone unfairly. I think it is a result of our fallen human nature that we tend toward biases.
N
Nepenthe
Guest
Well, little by little, I do think we’re getting past all that, all over the world. Certainly the USA was one great push towards the brotherhood and sisterhood of all humankind, no matter our mistakes and failings – others could observe from a distance, but this country was and remains quite the crucible. I understand very well why it was easier for the UK to manumit slaves and enfranchise women before we did.
It is indeed hard for those raised within a tribe to see outsiders as anything except hostile. I mean, think of how Attila must have seemed, or the Mongols, or the Spanish in the Americas…well, name your invader, it must have been like Mars Attacks! And Demands Yer Wimmens!
But now, we’ve met, politely. And I dare say, we like each other much more often than not. Indeed, we really like each other quite often.
So much in human relations becomes so easy, when one knows how to ask. ‘Please’ and ‘Thank you’ are the best magic words ever, and they go a very long way to eradicating racism, and all hostility to this day.
I was raised without ever being told about societal differences in sex, race, religion or class, and while my parents were pretty slipshod in some ways, for that I thank them every day. I really do not see what apparently others do, and the world I see is so wonderful without all that garbage. I was very surprised later to find that some people disliked me for being different spiritually, sexually, monetarily, educationally, or in appearance due to descent. But it can be done – heck, Ahimsa had it kinda right. People are so beautiful, how can anyone not fall in love with us, all of us?
So, teach your children well and with care…best way I can think of to loosen the ancient manacles of race and tribe and hate.
It is indeed hard for those raised within a tribe to see outsiders as anything except hostile. I mean, think of how Attila must have seemed, or the Mongols, or the Spanish in the Americas…well, name your invader, it must have been like Mars Attacks! And Demands Yer Wimmens!
But now, we’ve met, politely. And I dare say, we like each other much more often than not. Indeed, we really like each other quite often.
So much in human relations becomes so easy, when one knows how to ask. ‘Please’ and ‘Thank you’ are the best magic words ever, and they go a very long way to eradicating racism, and all hostility to this day.
I was raised without ever being told about societal differences in sex, race, religion or class, and while my parents were pretty slipshod in some ways, for that I thank them every day. I really do not see what apparently others do, and the world I see is so wonderful without all that garbage. I was very surprised later to find that some people disliked me for being different spiritually, sexually, monetarily, educationally, or in appearance due to descent. But it can be done – heck, Ahimsa had it kinda right. People are so beautiful, how can anyone not fall in love with us, all of us?
So, teach your children well and with care…best way I can think of to loosen the ancient manacles of race and tribe and hate.
D
distracted
Guest
I have only one bias against “Black people”… I hate it when they don’t accept me just because i am white. I hate when they seem to categorize me as one of those who are racist…
I shy away from Blacks who are angry and see me this way… I understand their pain (I know what it is like to be "different, etc…) but i wish they wouldn’t lump all Whites in the same category… it saddens me when they do. Thankfully, not all Blacks have this anger… thoug i sometimes wonder why… I mean, if i was Black, i would be VERY angry… so it is a miracle to meet one who isn’t (or who appears not to be???).
Anyway, thanks for the Post…
S
Sixtus
Guest
See Christ in everyone you meet
J
jc-servant
Guest
Excellent truth!
P
perlamaria
Guest
Hi I like your post I would like to know did you ever experienced racism for being a woman or being catholic and on what way? Did the police stopped you because you were a woman ? Did they give you mean stares? because you are a woman or catholic Did they ever harrased you at work because you are a woman or catholic Did they ever told you what school to go to or didnt allow you to to one? Did they ever denied you housing for being a woman?I agree. but a lot of people seem to be against this idea… so children of such unions suffer…
I don’t think u are wrong to think this way. I have thought something similar. I feel i am totally color-blind. yet a lot of blacks i have befriended seem to, well, sometimes i wonder if they believe i really am color -blind. I think they have been discriminated against 4 so long, they can’t believe anyone really would be 100% color blind… can’t blame them. Actually, (and now i have 2 confess something), i sometimes feel i like black people BETTER than whites… I am not sure why… maybe it is their culture… Maybe i can relate to their being discriminated against (i am a Catholic
I think the reason people continue 2b racist is because slavery existed in the 1st place. Think about it; If blacks had come to this country on their own, instead of as some kind of “beasts of burden” 2b used by money-hungry plantation owners, they would have been seen merely as foreigners like the Germans, Irish, etc… Slavery institutionalized the belief that they were somehow inferior… They had to be inferior in order to enslave them… to justify slavery…
Anyway, are u Catholic??
The reason i ask; it seems Catholics are FAR less racist than non-Catholics… (my experience)
P
perlamaria
Guest
Hi are you black?
A
aspirant
Guest
I think this often does more harm than good-- while it may sometimes appear to work in opposition to personal prejudice, it may actually allow more systemic forms of racism to continue and thrive.
We should all be working on creating positive rather than negative racial identities.
C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton, among others, had some good things to say about the difference between the virtue of patriotism and vices such as nationalism.
Most people advocating the former are not advocating the latter; the latter does not necessarily follow from the former.
Is not necessarily incompatible with the previous point.
Ask.
Ideally, I think it would involve not only eliminating personal prejudices, but also working to eliminate more systemic privileging and marginalization of peoples on the basis of race.
A
aspirant
Guest
Great post.
Re: the thread generally, I would heartily recommend the book “Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?” And Other Conversations About Race by Beverly Daniel Tatum. Great for people of all races & ethnicities, especially those of us in the United States.
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