Bettina Arndt on sex starved husbands

[Xantippe]

I agree my friend has had enough abuse, and you don’t really know how much I know or don’t know. It is very presumptuous of you to make such claims.

In cases of abuse the Church does allow for divorce and separation. You think this is just about sex, there is a lot more going on that is irrelevant to this thread.

Then why do you assume that (if she’s such an evil witch) that having regular sex will fix everything?

 

[stinkcat_14]

Then why do you assume that (if she’s such an evil witch) that having regular sex will fix everything?

I never suggested any such thing.

 

[Xantippe]

I never suggested any such thing.

You have presented that as their primary problem.

Whereas I would suggest that if your friend’s wife is an evil abusive witch, that whether or not she wants to have sex with him is a fairly minor matter.

 

[Allegra]

I wonder how many males actually think having intercourse is a cure all for all marital ills? I don’t recall anyone here suggesting such. In the case of my friend, he is not asking for sex, he is asking for a commitment to work on the problem. The last time he asked for that she threatened divorce. That is abuse plain and simple.

I don’t know about males, but Bettina Arndt seems to think something along those lines.

 

[Xantippe]

**I wonder how many males actually think having intercourse is a cure all for all marital ills? ** I don’t recall anyone here suggesting such. In the case of my friend, he is not asking for sex, he is asking for a commitment to work on the problem. The last time he asked for that she threatened divorce. That is abuse plain and simple.

Well, it does get treated that way–it’s really not hard to find people who promise that sex will fix everything.

Like, if only the couple were having lots of sex, it wouldn’t matter that he is unemployable, that she’s a shrew, their teenagers are running wild, or that their finances are a disaster.

Whereas back on Planet Earth, all of those things are going to take a toll on the sex life (at least for normal people).

Edited to add: I believe meth adicts don’t care about that stuff.

 

[stinkcat_14]

You have presented that as their primary problem.

Whereas I would suggest that if your friend’s wife is an evil abusive witch, that whether or not she wants to have sex with him is a fairly minor matter.

I presented as the topic relevant to this thread. I didn’t discuss other issues because they are not relevant to this thread. My guess is that after twenty years of verbal abuse it probably would lower a guys sex drive, but living with the constant rejection, walking on eggshells, etc is not easy for him.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Well, it does get treated that way–it’s really not hard to find people who promise that sex will fix everything.

Like, if only the couple were having lots of sex, it wouldn’t matter that he is unemployable, that she’s a shrew, their teenagers are running wild, or that their finances are a disaster.

Whereas back on Planet Earth, all of those things are going to take a toll on the sex life (at least for normal people).

Edited to add: I believe meth adicts don’t care about that stuff.

Our world is obsessed with sex, that is for sure. For example, my friends counselor told him to have an affair. That is as bad as the wife abusing the husband for asking her to take the problem seriously.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t know about males, but Bettina Arndt seems to think something along those lines.

I would agree with you there. I think our world would be better off if we all had a Catholic understanding of sexuality.

 

[Xantippe]

Our world is obsessed with sex, that is for sure. For example, my friends counselor told him to have an affair. That is as bad as the wife abusing the husband for asking her to take the problem seriously.

When your friend tells his wife he wants her to “work on it,” what exactly does he have in mind?

Has he read anything about recovery from sexual abuse, marriage after sexual abuse, PTSD, etc.? Has he found a respected and competent therapist with experience in the area? Does he have any sort of roadmap for recovery?

Because if he doesn’t have a viable plan (other than just keep trying even if it traumatizes her), there’s nothing for his wife to work with and I’m not surprised she doesn’t want to risk her mental health doing something that has never worked before.

From what you’ve said, he definitely does not have an appropriate mental health team yet.

 

[stinkcat_14]

When your friend tells his wife he wants her to “work on it,” what exactly does he have in mind?

Has he read anything about recovery from sexual abuse, marriage after sexual abuse, PTSD, etc.? Has he found a respected and competent therapist with experience in the area? Does he have any sort of roadmap for recovery?

Because if he doesn’t have a viable plan (other than just keep trying even if it traumatizes her), there’s nothing for his wife to work with and I’m not surprised she doesn’t want to risk her mental health doing something that has never worked before.

From what you’ve said, he definitely does not have an appropriate mental health team yet.

He actually had found a top notch person to treat the PTSD, but she refused to go. He then went to a marriage counselor who wasn’t very good. She got angry at him for going to the counselor himself.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was not equating the two, I was just making an illustration. I was trying to describe the root of the problem. Let me try again:

1. In marriage, the wife (or the husband) has a moral obligation to have sex with the husband (or wife).
2. Let’s say a spouse has a legitimate reason not to have sex (i.e. past trauma), the other spouse owes some forbearance here.
3. However, the refusing spouse does not have a moral right to indefinitely say: “you get nothing, take it or leave it”.

That is, if there is a problem fulfilling the debt, then the person with the problem needs to work on it, they don’t get a free pass.

Like I said, I was just using an illustration. I don’t recommend being wedded to any credit card company for life.

When a married couple or a married person has an issue, both parties are morally bound to work on it. There is no “my problem” or “not my problem,” but problems are shared because the couple has committed to a shared life in which both are “subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Eph. 5:21) When you are one flesh and have one life, you don’t orbit in independent spheres that only intersect for mutually-beneficial use of one another.

It may be in some cases that a very important issue does not have a solution, save separation with the bond remaining. I am afraid that in our times that describes a painfully high number of marriages, and perhaps those marriages are not even valid. I do not mean only those marriages Holy Father himself has referred to, which is a high number in an absolute sense–that is, couples marrying when their capacity for true fidelity is not mature. I mean couples in which one or both has deep-seated scarring that affects their ability to fulfill their duties in ways they did not appreciate when they married. That is probably not a very high fraction, but a very painful situation and not rare enough concerning the suffering involved for two people who went into marriage in good faith ignorance of a serious incapacity in one or both of them.

Generally speaking, however, yes, both spouses ought to put a very high priority on finding a mutually-agreeable way to share the martial embrace, save when one spouse has the right to not just to deny the marital embrace but to sever conjugal living altogether (but I am speaking about cases of adultery). If one spouse were to be truly so scarred from a previous experiences that it was impossible to share the marital embrace in a normal way, that is a serious problem with regards to having a peaceful common conjugal life. If someone has had a problem like that, however, there isn’t some competition about who is more bound to exert themselves to change or be patient or whatnot. They both have to do what they can in order to make a good faith effort to keep their vows.

 

[stinkcat_14]

When a married couple or a married person has an issue, both parties are morally bound to work on it. There is no “my problem” or “not my problem,” but problems are shared because the couple has committed to a shared life in which both are “subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Eph. 5:21) When you are one flesh and have one life, you don’t orbit in independent spheres that only intersect for mutually-beneficial use of one another.

It may be in some cases that a very important issue does not have a solution, save separation with the bond remaining. I am afraid that in our times that describes a painfully high number of marriages. I do not mean only those Holy Father himself has referred to–that is, couples marrying when their capacity for true fidelity is not mature. I mean couples in which one or both has deep-seated scarring that affects their ability to fulfill their duties in ways they did not appreciate when they married.

Generally speaking, however, yes, both spouses ought to put a very high priority on finding a mutually-agreeable way to share the martial embrace, save when one spouse has the right to not just to deny the marital embrace but to sever conjugal living altogether (but I am speaking about cases of adultery). If one spouse were to be truly so scarred from a previous experiences that it was impossible to share the marital embrace in a normal way, that is a serious problem with regards to having a peaceful common conjugal life. If someone has had a problem like that, however, there isn’t some competition about who is more bound to exert themselves to change or be patient or whatnot. They both have to do what they can in order to make a good faith effort to keep their vows.

Well stated.

 

[Xantippe]

He actually had found a top notch person to treat the PTSD, but she refused to go. He then went to a marriage counselor who wasn’t very good. She got angry at him for going to the counselor himself.

That’s a bit more promising.

If it were me, I would go to a couple of appointments with the PTSD specialist to get advice and a reading list, even if she won’t go.

 

[Xantippe]

Another consideration–if the relationship is so dysfunctional, why take the risk of bringing more children into a low-functioning marriage?

No sex is more a feature than a bug if things are so terrible.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s a bit more promising.

If it were me, I would go to a couple of appointments with the PTSD specialist to get advice and a reading list, even if she won’t go.

It is very concerning that she was angry that he sought counselling for himself.

Still, sometimes when we go through something that we experience as a loss of control over our own lives, we aren’t really very rational on the whole issue of control and decision-making that seems in any way connected with us. For instance, a child might be angry if he had a serious problem and his parents got counseling because it was difficult for them. He might feel that he* personally* was being made into a problem that was being addressed without him. That isn’t rational, but emotions aren’t rational and are often rooted in things we don’t see or cannot bring ourselves to face.

Let us pray that this couple has a revelation or revelations that do put them “on the same page” in facing and coping with their problems as one, whether that is through things they do jointly or alone, with the Lord as their constant help. “Where one alone may be overcome, two together can resist. A three-ply cord is not easily broken.” Eccl. 4:12

 

[Billycourty]

Hi Billycourty,

I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. Perhaps the title was a bit one-sided, but I was thinking about it in terms of a “dead bedroom” issue that affects both husband and wife in a marriage. The video is simplistic in nature, but that’s what I found so interesting about it. Perhaps a simple “back to the basics” approach could help resolve some dead bedroom marriages, which is what interested me.

Presumably,in your situation, if it’s been going on for 18 years, there’s probably not much in terms of the simplistic approach of the video that will be of aid to you. I just want you to know that I am praying for you and your marriage. I sincerely hope that your situation is rectified.

Peace and God bless!

What kind words and thoughtfulness, thank you.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Another consideration–if the relationship is so dysfunctional, why take the risk of bringing more children into a low-functioning marriage?

No sex is more a feature than a bug if things are so terrible.

With my friend questioning whether or not his marriage is even valid, the actual idea of physically having sex is becoming less of an issue for him. The constant rejection and abuse can really wear a person down.

 

[john1513]

Hello fellow Catholics!

Today, a friend of mine gets married, and I stumbled across this video on sex in marriage and dead bedrooms. I thought it raised some really good points and I pass it along for all the married Catholics to prayerfully consider.

Bettina Arndt is an Australian sex therapist, journalist and clinical psychologist, who has focused on the “dead bedroom” issue and how to solve it.

My favorite quote: “Women do crazy things…to try to please their husbands. They’ll cook three course meals, they’ll spend hours searching for his favorite underpants in a shopping center, when a 10 minute bonk every now again will make that man a lot happier than a lot of the things that she’ll do for him.”

Peace and God bless!

A very valid point since it evidently struck a nerve on this forum. Many Catholics can easily explain the procreative side of sex but sadly do not understand the unitive. Sex is the one activity that makes a marriage relationship different from *every other relationship. * Without it, you’re just a roommate or a good friend. Sadly, this is an element that is absent in marriage prep and sets a lot of Catholic couples up for divorce.

 

[stinkcat_14]

A very valid point since it evidently struck a nerve on this forum. Many Catholics can easily explain the procreative side of sex but sadly do not understand the unitive. Sex is the one activity that makes a marriage relationship different from *every other relationship. * Without it, you’re just a roommate or a good friend. Sadly, this is an element that is absent in marriage prep and sets a lot of Catholic couples up for divorce.

The thing I find interesting on these forums is that if a man wants more intimacy with his wife, he is presumed to be a sex crazed ogre until proven innocent. Like wanting intimacy is a bad thing or something.

 

[heidi_storage]

I agree my friend has had enough abuse, and you don’t really know how much I know or don’t know. It is very presumptuous of you to make such claims.

In cases of abuse the Church does allow for divorce and separation. You think this is just about sex, there is a lot more going on that is irrelevant to this thread.

Many regulars on the forum know that I think sexual intimacy is terribly important in a marriage, and that if people can have sex with their spouses they ought to do so regularly. However, crowdsourcing advice for your friend’s marriage doesn’t seem like the best idea.