Between Brock Turner and Brett Kavanaugh, when do girls matter?

[FloridaCatholic]

Yeah he did when he took advantage of her.

Btw I flagged you. She’s a victim. And a human being. Have some respect

 

[MarlboroMan]

Ugh, this forum and their selective flagging

 

[philipl]

What if it didnt occur?

 

[Theo520]

First, what is this talk of a misdemeanor? The incident, as described, is an felony under Maryland law.
Secondly, the hiring process would allow for the hiring authorities to decide whether some offense, in light of its gravity, the actions taken to make up for it, and the subsequent behavior, presents a fatal impediment for the position in question. It may also be the case that prompt action from someone even just shy of 18, would have led, ultimately, to a record that was sealed or even expunged. Absent that, it would remain part of the record that whose significance is properly discussed and assessed.

No, it would have been misdemeanor charges at the time.

So you are saying any possible felony charge as a teen, without any subsequent violations should be a career death sentence for any teen.

You really want to ramp up our pipeline of schools to prison, don’t you.

 

[dvdjs]

No, it would have been misdemeanor charges at the time.

Please support this idea by showing a link to the statues of the time and how they are different form the current statues.

So you are saying any possible felony charge as a teen, without any subsequent violations should be a career death sentence for any teen.

We have been through this idea before. There is no career death sentence at stake. Nor would sentencing preclude consideration of conduct. But good deeds after (or before) the fact do not alter the matter of guilt, however they may mitigate punishment…

 

[JimG]

So, if the judge is guilty of felony sexual assault, and thereby disqualified for the Supreme Court, is he not also disqualified for his current position? Should he be removed from the bench based on this allegation?

 

[MonteRCMS]

So, if the judge is guilty of felony sexual assault, and thereby disqualified for the Supreme Court, is he not also disqualified for his current position? Should he be removed from the bench based on this allegation?

The FBI investigated him six times.

Not a glimmer of questionable behavior.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

He is unlikely to ever be found “guilty” of anything, because there doesn’t seem to be anywhere near the amount of evidence needed to meet the “reasonable doubt” standard, or even enough evidence to sustain a civil suit by the woman under the lower civil standard.

And yes, if this actually happened it should have come up during one of the many past FBI investigations of him.

 

[Theo520]

So, if the judge is guilty of felony sexual assault, and thereby disqualified for the Supreme Court, is he not also disqualified for his current position? Should he be removed from the bench based on this allegation?

It does appear that one perceived transgression and you are “out”
No pattern of behavior required.

 

[Theo520]

So even if it did happen, it doesn’t matter, because it’s just sexual assault. Not, like, anything serious .

Once again, we’re proving Simcha’s point.

I think the assertion is that it was ‘attempted’ which is not the same as rape. Crossing the line over what is consensual can happen quickly. What happens next is important. Does the assault continue to rape or does it stop.

It’s relevance after decades (well past statute of limitations) would only be if it was part of a pattern of behavior.

As it stands, we just her perception of a distant event.

• perhaps it didn’t occur the way she remembers. I see this daily with teens brought in for assault charges.
• perhaps it did occur the way she remembers. Was it an isolated gross error in judgment by the other person, or reflective of their nature (part of a pattern)?

In the juvie system, they look for patterns of behavior. You get a break on your first offense but if similar events repeat themselves, they increase the consequences to assist with redirection of the teen.

 

[Ridgerunner]

How many women would lose their career if media exposed their high school and college sexploitations or instances of domestic violence?

Probably none of them. I remember when I was in high school some kids had a party that involved drinking. One of the girls decided to take off her top and allow the boys to fondle her. It didn’t ruin her life. She later married, had children and is just one more member of the community. I doubt anybody reminds her of it, and don’t know what she would say if anyone brought it up.

I only know of one instance in which I was so drunk that I did something I still don’t remember and would never have done normally. A number of us were drinking (I was either 17 or 18). We were in a park where there was a huge old locomotive on display. On top it had a brass well. As I am told, I climbed up that locomotive (dangerous to do, they are really tall) and tried to get the bell. I didn’t remember it later when told about it, and I still don’t. Nor is it in my nature to climb locomotives at risk of life and limb to steal brass bells. I have not climbed any locomotives or stolen any brass bells since.

 

[dvdjs]

Probably none of them. I remember when I was in high school some kids had a party that involved drinking. One of the girls decided to take off her top and allow the boys to fondle her. It didn’t ruin her life. She later married, had children and is just one more member of the community. I doubt anybody reminds her of it, and don’t know what she would say if anyone brought it up.

What on earth does this story of voluntary sexual activity have to do with the case of Turner of the allegations against Kavanaugh which are cases of sexual assault?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I did what dumb stuff I did while dead solid sober.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I only know of one instance in which I was so drunk that I did something I still don’t remember and would never have done normally. A number of us were drinking (I was either 17 or 18). We were in a park where there was a huge old locomotive on display. On top it had a brass well. As I am told, I climbed up that locomotive (dangerous to do, they are really tall) and tried to get the bell. I didn’t remember it later when told about it, and I still don’t. Nor is it in my nature to climb locomotives at risk of life and limb to steal brass bells. I have not climbed any locomotives or stolen any brass bells since.

Yeah, and I’ve gone pogo sticking in enclosed spaces. Even then I knew not to force myself on anyone.

 

[Mi_Rose]

It is hard to articulate a postion here that is not go Kavanaugh or no Kavanaugh but here goes.
I think supporters of the judge are playing right into his opponents hands when they say every boy does this. Every boy does not and it imsults every boy of virtue when things like that are said.
It would be more productive to ask where the physical evidence is.

 

[niceatheist]

Exactly. I think there’s a reasonably strong argument to be made that the allegations are unprovable, that at any material witnesses thus far turned up can offer no corroboration, and thus it’s a claim, true or not, for which there can be no meaningful investigation or review. But to actually defend the alleged event as “boys being boys”, that I view as offensive.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

I agree.

12345

 

[dvdjs]

Exactly. I think there’s a reasonably strong argument to be made that the allegations are unprovable, that at any material witnesses thus far turned up can offer no corroboration, and thus it’s a claim, true or not, for which there can be no meaningful investigation or review. But to actually defend the alleged event as “boys being boys”, that I view as offensive.

And it undercuts the convincing defense. Why resort to excusing it, or pointing to others. or rushing to get done before more cases emerge, if it is all simply deniable?

 

[FloridaCatholic]

I don’t know. I think part of growing up has guys and gals pushing the envelope too far and crossing boundaries they shouldn’t have.

He was 17. No one here ever made a mistake?

 

[gracepoole]

Holding a woman down against her will and placing a hand over her mouth so she can’t call out for help isn’t “pushing the envelope too far,” “crossing boundaries,” or “making a mistake.” Trying to kiss a girl and being rebuked? Sure. But what’s been described is assault.