Bi ritual religious order

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My bad. Serves me right for trying to do too many things at once. 😄
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
To my knowledge, there are no bi-ritual communities.
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FYI - as I posted above, the Religious Family of the Incarnate Word accepts priests/monks/brothers/nuns/sisters from both the East and West. They celebrate whichever rite they are part of… so many of their houses celebrate multiple Rites, depending on who is praying the Mass/Divine Liturgy
 
Hello all,
There are no religious orders which are inherently bi-ritual. At the founding of an order, it almost always must be founded as a local congregation under the protection and direction of a bishop. There are no such thing as a bi-ritual bishop in the sense that the bishop has Episcopal authority over multiple dioceses of different rites. The local congregation is thus founded under the single rite to which the bishop belongs. The only exception are those few orders who receive immediate pontifical rite status from the Pope without prior foundation as a local congregation. In this case, the Order is automatically Latin Rite.

This distinction is important because there are two separate Codes of Canon Law, one for the Latin and Ambrosian Rites and one for the Eastern Rites. Upon foundation, the congregation must conform to the Canon Law required of it for its respective Rite.

In the course of it’s life, however, it may accept brothers or sisters of other rites. Even in these cases, the order still falls under the original jurisdiction at the time of its founding. Usually, an order will standardize their orders liturgical rites (professions, renewal of vows, etc.) within that original Rite. The only change to this practice is if large provinces receive permission to adapt the order’s liturgies to the primary rite of the local populace.
 
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You have a good memory. I wonder if a clue might be that he is a religious order priest (SVD). These days SVD don’t wear cassocks. Perhaps when they do wear one it is grey? Perhaps in his answer he was answering “why a cassock” rather than “why grey”? Or, perhaps his order decided that she should wear grey rather than black? Just guessing. Interesting.
 
Cloisters said:
Newsletter Dec 2006:

Mount Grace Convent
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Thank you!

I think I figured this out. That SVD priest was wearing a Grey Zostikon (cassock) because he could. In the Byzantine Rite, monastic priests always wear black, but non-monastics can wear whatever color. Most of the non-monastics wear black too, but blue zostikons (cassock) and grey zostikons are frequently worn. Non-monastics also have the option for a while zostikon, typically worn at Easter.

Because SVD priests do not have habits, their priests wear standard clerical attire (similar to diocesan priests). Plus, because this priest was bi-ritual, he chose to dress in Byzantine attire (which his order would allow him to do). Finally, because he was not a monastic, he decided to wear grey.

Point is: he had the option to wear grey because he was bi-ritual AND because his order does have a habit, but being bi-ritual wasn’t the reason he was wearing the grey.

It’s quite probable, that your average bi-ritual, diocesan priest (and bi-ritual Religious priest with a habit) would not be able to wear the Grey Zostikon.

I pray that I’m making sense.

God Bless.
 
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There used to be (perhaps still is) a group of Byzantine Franciscans.

They were all Friars Minor, and all bi-ritual. They were headquartered in Pennsylvania somewhere. I looked into joining their Order, but this was 27 - 28-ish years ago.

FYI - Cassock color means less to the discussion at hand; more important is the type of cassock worn. Eastern [inner] cassocks have a different collar type (closer to a Nehru collar) and fit looser than Roman cassocks, they are not as similar as people think.

Outer cassocks are very loose, have very wide sleeves, and look nothing like a Roman cassock. They look a little like a Benedictine cuculla if you have seen one of those.
As a tangential comment - we have both inner and outer cassocks; and the inner is always worn under our liturgical vestments. Outer cassocks are used for services other than Divine Liturgy, and things like wakes and burials, etc.
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Monastic clergy usually wear black cassocks, secular clergy (shorthand is “white” clergy) can wear a number of colors (confusingly including black). For married clerics gray and blue and black are most common, maroon and beige are less common.

(For those who don’t know, I am a bi-ritual deacon who serves both a large Roman parish and a small Ukrainian Catholic parish.)

Khrystos voskres!
Father Deacon Christopher
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
To my knowledge, there are no bi-ritual communities.
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There are–our former administrator was from such a Franciscan community.

It is the individual priests, though, and not the order, the have faculties.

Also, it is that community, not the order.
Cloisters said:
The Pink Sisters explained in their newsletter that the grey color of the cassock was reflective of the fact that he could celebrate both Eastern and Latin rites.
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When I took my priest for the KofC Fourth Degree, some yahoo tried to take him aside, claiming that his grey cassock was for deacons. :roll_eyes: (priests only observe, rather than participate, in our digress, as we’r anoint going to presume to instruct them!).

To make it even more surreal, the degree was taking place at the other byzantine parish in town . . .

😱 😱 😱

I don’t believe that he had his RC faculties yet (although he was assigned a few days a week to a RC parish and the RC chancellery . . .), and he certainly wouldn’t have worn a different color cassock over it!
 
The Byzantine Carmelites wore the traditional Carmelite habit until ~ 1-2 years ago. They now wear traditional Byzantine habits.
 
The Byzantine Franciscans are still around as well as the Byzantine Carmelites. 20+ years ago, I went on a come-and-see weekend with the Byzantine Carmelites. There are times when I wish I had become a Byzantine Carmelite but that’s water over the bridge now. Oh well…
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
To my knowledge, there are no bi-ritual communities.
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As others have mentioned, communities cannot be bi-ritual, but they can be made up of individuals who have bi-ritual faculties. The Contemplatives of St.joseph in San Fransico is comprised of men who are canonically Latin and men who are canonically Byzantine. Their particular situation is unique because the Russian Catholic parish in San Francisco is under the care of the Latin Rite bishop.
 
nunsuch said:
From what I know of the FSSPs, they almost always celebrate the Extraordinary Form. However, they do sometimes concelebrate Mass with other clergy (for example, at Chrism Masses) and when they do, they follow the form being celebrated–almost always the Ordinary Form. While some Traditionalists criticize them for this, the FSSPs have defended this practice, saying that it is reflective of their membership in and communion with the universal Church.
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At one point, apparently some of the FSSP priests wanted to say both the EF and the OF, and the head of their fraternity said no. Rome said that they could not be forbidden to say the OF.

They are not, however, bi-ritual, as there is one rite in two forms. Bi-ritual is used for priests who can say Mass according to Eastern rite(s) and the Roman rite (which could be either the EF or the OF, or both).
 
I think reading the article, which you reference, in a later post the priest is not wearing the grey-coloured cassock because he has bi-ritual faculties. It says because he has bi-ritual faculties he has opted to wear a grey-coloured cassock and a silver cross and chain like Eastern Catholic priests.
 
I was blessed to remember anything about it at all, since it was in 2006. As I’ve explained previously, hubby’s been on temperature checker detail at work for a month now, and we’re exhausted. They have over 200 people at their workplace, and only a handful are signing up for this. We have to be up at 3:20 am. He even had to go in during vacation! Please pray for this unjust situation. Thanks.
 
otjm said:
At one point, apparently some of the FSSP priests wanted to say both the EF and the OF, and the head of their fraternity said no. Rome said that they could not be forbidden to say the OF.
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From what I understand (though I could be mistaken) it wasn’t so much that the FSSP priests wanted to say both, but that the bishops in some dioceses were asking them to do both. Some bishops were even asking them to offer the 1965 mass in English.

But this was before Summorum Pontificum. Ever since summorum pontificum, their order has really started to grow, and I think most of this has gone away.
 
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phil19034 said:
From what I understand (though I could be mistaken) it wasn’t so much that the FSSP priests wanted to say both, but that the bishops in some dioceses were asking them to do both. Some bishops were even asking them to offer the 1965 mass in English.
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The matter was something I “stumbled” upon as I don’t follow the order; and it was long enough ago that I don’t recall whether it came form a bishop or one or more of the priests. The order/fraternal society apparently was of the opinion that the priests were not to say the OF, and Rome flat nixed that.
phil19034 said:
But this was before Summorum Pontificum . Ever since summorum pontificum , their order has really started to grow, and I think most of this has gone away.
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Again, I don’t follow them. Their website indicates they have parishes in the US and in Canada (and I presume elsewhere). It is entirely possible they could be in a situation where they need to serve both those preferring the EF, and those preferring the OF, depending on whether they have an official parish, or they serve a larger community drawing from other parishes.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Dominicans do have their own rite which they do still celebrate at least occasionally.
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They have their use inside the Latin Rite. What Bi-Rituality tends to refer to is that someone is able to celebrate Rite of different Sui Iuris Church (so for example, Latin Rite Priests celebrating any Latin Rite at all would not count as Bi-Ritual- be it Ordinariate Use, Dominican Use, EF, OF, Zaire Use, Ambrosian Rite etc etc).

To the OP, I was told that obtaining Bi-Ritual faculties was not as difficult if there is substantial majority of believers of other Rite. In my country where Eastern Catholics exist but are minority, most of their Priests actually have Bi-Ritual faculties because they often are required to exercise them. However, only some Latin-Rite Priests have Bi-Ritual faculties because they are almost never needed to exercise them. I think that if there is a good reason to do so, Bishop would allow you to potentially have those faculties. Also, per canon law concelebrating with someone of different Rite does not require Bi-Ritual facultie, hence if you were not primary celebrant of Liturgy, you could concelebrate at any Catholic Liturgy that permits concelebration.
 
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