Bible and Qu'ran: Let's settle this!

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

thanks

but who do I go with my questions first: Bin Laden or Sadat?

Given that half of the Saudi population agree with Bin Laden, try him first.

 

[dolphinlove]

St_Aloysius may very well be Catholic. But it may serve us well to note what they wrote in post # 10…

I still stand by what i think, since we have had numerous other people acting as Catholics that arent on this site.

 

[St_Aloysius]

i find it a bit hard to believe your Catholic…

I’m… sorry…?

I still stand by what i think, since we have had numerous other people acting as Catholics that arent on this site.

That’s right. I’m undercover.

What does Islam teach?

Submission to God, ideally.

There are always peeps who are looking to pervert, though.

Who has the authority to interpret the Qur’an?

It depends on the “denom.” Shiites are a lot like Catholics in that they believe that Muhammad’s descendents, the Shi’a Imams, have infallible authority to teach and interpret. Sunnis and others believe in more free-lance interpretation from what I understand.

 

[dolphinlove]

I’m… sorry…?

That’s right. I’m undercover.

I know my accusation might seem a bit harsh, but there have been other Muslims come on here, claim to be Christian in an attempt to spread the word of the quran.
I myself have read some of it, and dont find it poetic at all.
I think once you read the bible, and have the truth revealed to you, its hard to think the quran would be… in your words…

“Qur’an is a beautiful, poetic religious text that tells of a God “Most Gracious, Most Merciful,” and his interactions with his creation, his concern for the poor, and his desire for his people to act righteously.”

And not think this smells of a Muslim trying to inspire us to read it.
So, if i have jumped to conclusions, im sorry, but if i havent, well i hope you know we will never think the quran is the word of God.

God bless
Dolphinlove

 

[paarsurrey]

Qur’an is a beautiful, poetic religious text that tells of a God “Most Gracious, Most Merciful,” and his interactions with his creation, his concern for the poor, and his desire for his people to act righteously.
I have a copy and am amazed by it, really.
If Islam is about submission to God, and God according to Islam is loving and kind, then it’s safe to conclude that unrational people are twisting a pure (and evolving, mind you) religion into something it’s not.
People in the past have similarly distorted the message of the Christian Bible…
There really can be little comparison of the texts, as they have different cultural contexts, modes of interpretation, overall messages, etc., etc. Qur’an is a poetic book, the Torah and Gospels are more narrative, though they largely agree on many matters. On others, they don’t.
Trying to prove the superiority of one over the other is simply foolish. If you wish to proclaim Christ and his Gospel as the Church proclaims it, love–do the corporeal and spiritual works, etc. And if one wishes to show mankind Allah, be charitable and kind and submit wholeheartedly to him.
This is what decides which religion thrives, not textual analysis.
Peace

Hi

A wonderful post; peaceful, charitable and reasonable.

Thanks

 

[Reuben_J]

I know my accusation might seem a bit harsh, but there have been other Muslims come on here, claim to be Christian in an attempt to spread the word of the quran.
I myself have read some of it, and dont find it poetic at all.
I think once you read the bible, and have the truth revealed to you, its hard to think the quran would be… in your words…

“Qur’an is a beautiful, poetic religious text that tells of a God “Most Gracious, Most Merciful,” and his interactions with his creation, his concern for the poor, and his desire for his people to act righteously.”

And not think this smells of a Muslim trying to inspire us to read it.
So, if i have jumped to conclusions, im sorry, but if i havent, well i hope you know we will never think the quran is the word of God.

God bless
Dolphinlove

Yes, it’s true that there is at least one Muslim here masquerading as a Catholic. Later on he exposed his true colour by revealing that he would be leaving Catholicism. He defended Islam on just about anything that his arguments bothered on the absurd. Some of us may suspect whom I’m talking about. It’s against the forum rule though to question a poster motive in posting here. Nevertheless, it can be quite irritating for other posters due to his obvious insincerity.

This is just a forum. I can’t see any reason for masquerading as someone else just merely to win arguments. If Muslims want to do this, it only confirms our impression on how tricky Islam is. And I don’t believe that Catholics can be this naive and ignorant as to fall to this cheap trick.

I cannot agree with any fellow Catholics who support and agree with the Quran or Mohammad in their entirety, because they are different and opposed to Christianity. This is a fact. While some aspects of Islam are similar, its major thrust differs against the basic of Christianity. Trinity is one of them. The death and resurrection of Jesus is another. And there are more in the details of its teachings and the life of Mohammad.

 

[Reuben_J]

I respect Islam due to its strictness and the devotion to God in such regular prayer. However its core revolves around duty based ethics - something that Jesus Christ brought the Jewish and gentiles above and beyond. There is only a certain level of enlightenment and closeness to God achieved through duty based ethics.

One glaring problem I find with Islam is that it is supposedly the unaltered, perfect, word of God. The ‘prophet’ Mohammed said that it is a terrible sin to honour the trinity, which he describes as Father, Son and Mary. The Catholic church outlined in the council of Nicaea, about 300 years before Mohammed was born, that the trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (it would have been preached much earlier than this and is implied in the bible, but this is one solid, historical event we can refer to).

So, was God confused about what Christians believed was the trinity when he dictated the Koran to Mohammed? I think not. Or, was God talking about a different Christian sect? If so, why did he address a belief that, if it existed, probably involved such a minute minority? The majority of the rest of religious Europe/Middle East would have been honouring the trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - why did he not mention this trinity in the Koran if it is God’s final word to correct the wrongs of the Christians and Jews?

Unfortunately the Koran is fraught with many such fatal errors in logic. Not to mention the fact that it includes many tales about Jesus that originated in folklore and poetry between 300-500 AD.

Finally - how can anyone honour a ‘prophet’ that used the sword to quash unbelievers, when there is the salvific power of turning the other cheek, and using love and charity instead, through the teachings of Jesus Christ? Further, this ‘prophet’ slept with his wife when she was 8 years old, and promises martyrs a bevy of virgins and young boys in paradise. This ‘prophet’ and his men sacked cities, raped women, and killed unbelievers instead of showing compassion and converting out of love. Muslims will defend this by the arguement of moral relativism. How can the morals handed down by God and his prophet be relative and change from age to age???

There is some truth in the Koran and I respect that. However it is not the whole truth, and there is a whole lot of evil thrown in there as well.

Hi, welcome to the forum.

I just want you to know that I like this post very much. Its speaks rationally about Islam, and if we want to stay Christians/Catholics, it is view like this that should be useful to us.

Thanks.

May God bless and keep you.

Reuben.

 

[dolphinlove]

Yes, it’s true that there is at least one Muslim here masquerading as a Catholic. Later on he exposed his true colour by revealing that he would be leaving Catholicism. He defended Islam on just about anything that his arguments bothered on the absurd. Some of us may suspect whom I’m talking about. It’s against the forum rule though to question a poster motive in posting here. Nevertheless, it can be quite irritating for other posters due to his obvious insincerity.

This is just a forum. I can’t see any reason for masquerading as someone else just merely to win arguments. If Muslims want to do this, it only confirms our impression on how tricky Islam is. And I don’t believe that Catholics can be this naive and ignorant as to fall to this cheap trick.

I cannot agree with any fellow Catholics who support and agree with the Quran or Mohammad in their entirety, because they are different and opposed to Christianity. This is a fact. While some aspects of Islam are similar, its major thrust differs against the basic of Christianity. Trinity is one of them. The death and resurrection of Jesus is another. And there are more in the details of its teachings and the life of Mohammad.

This has happened on 3 occasions since ive joined this thread, but i wont name the others for confidentiality.

 

[Reuben_J]

This has happened on 3 occasions since ive joined this thread, but i wont name the others for confidentiality.

I’m not surprised. Not that I’m looking for Muslim undercovers but they do exist. Just so that we know them and keep it in mind when exchanging posts with them. Personally I feel it’s worthless, an exercise in futility to engage in meaningful dialogue with this type of people.

Sorry to sound rather harsh because there are good Muslim posters too, though not many are staying long enough to really cast strong influence on the others.

 

[dolphinlove]

I’m not surprised. Not that I’m looking for Muslim undercovers but they do exist. Just so that we know them and keep it in mind when exchanging posts with them. Personally I feel it’s worthless, an exercise in futility to engage in meaningful dialogue with this type of people.

Sorry to sound rather harsh because there are good Muslim posters too, though not many are staying long enough to really cast strong influence on the others.

Yes, there is good and bad in all.
Anyway, time for me to hit the sack and catch some zzzzz.
Good night
God Bless

 

[Reuben_J]

Yes, there is good and bad in all.
Anyway, time for me to hit the sack and catch some zzzzz.
Good night
God Bless

God bless and sleep tight.

 

[de_profundis]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

I just want you to know that I like this post very much. Its speaks rationally about Islam, and if we want to stay Christians/Catholics, it is view like this that should be useful to us.

Thanks.

May God bless and keep you.

Reuben.

Thanks, that’s encouraging. Just seemed to be a lot of confused Catholics on this thread thinking that the Holy Bible and the Koran are comparable, and that the Koran is also the Word of God. Well to be honest I thought they were out-in-the-open Muslims before I heard them claiming to be Catholic. Anyhow, I’m glad I signed up here

 

[Reuben_J]

Thanks, that’s encouraging. Just seemed to be a lot of confused Catholics on this thread thinking that the Holy Bible and the Koran are comparable, and that the Koran is also the Word of God. Well to be honest I thought they were out-in-the-open Muslims before I heard them claiming to be Catholic. Anyhow, I’m glad I signed up here

Yeah. It’s hard to keep one sanity when we hear so much watered down Christian doctrines. Maybe that reminds us to stay focus and sober.

No problem in talking about some positive aspect of Islamic teachings but, yes, the Quran is not the Bible. As Catholics we should not compromise on this because the Quran contradicts the Bible. Muslims say so themselves.

Cheers and joy in the Lord.

 

[Booklover]

Im sorry, i find it a bit hard to believe your Catholic…

Ha, ha! Hi Ellen, so you saw through that little ploy as well! He speaks glowingly about Islam and then takes a swipe at his “professed” faith!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

These catholic impersonators are using deception to try to sow the seeds of doubt about our faith!

Vickie

 

[hopelessrom_grl]

Let’s see:

The Qur’an (Koran) says that Allah desires to lead people astray (Surah 6:39 , 126). He does not help those who are led astray by him (Surah 30:29), and Allah desires to use them to populate hell (Surah 32:13).

Check those verses in the Quran yourself

Not so loving and forgiving right?

 

[dolphinlove]

Ha, ha! Hi Ellen, so you saw through that little ploy as well! He speaks glowingly about Islam and then takes a swipe at his “professed” faith!

Vickie

Hey there Vicki, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year!
And yes, its not really hard to see through this now is it, its actually quite transparent!

 

[Laurence_of_PA]

Check those verses in the Quran yourself

Not so loving and forgiving right?

I just checked myself and this is what I found for Sura 6: 39…

6:39 Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight.
Waallatheena kaththaboobi-ayatina summun wabukmun fee alththulumatiman yasha-i Allahu yudlilhu waman yasha/ yajAAalhuAAala siratin mustaqeemin

So what? Obviously the Christian God has decided to leave *me *wandering too, otherwise – if he *wanted *-- he could prove his existence to me RIGHT NOW!

OR…Maybe Allah shows me signs every single day and I just ignore them!

This only bolsters my previous statement that Islam – like Christianity – depends on who’s interpretin’ da’ big book.

With *your *kind of interpretation, I’m just glad you’re not a Muslim cleric!

Ouch! uch:

 

[Bubble]

I wrote that I suspected you started this thread with the motive of “proving” that both the bible and the Q’uran were wicked. You replied:

Laurence of PA

Quick Robin…the Batmobile! He caught me!

But seriously, if that’s how you feel about we-who-doubt, why bother asking me if I think something is wicked? Don’t you believe that I believe that wickedness doesn’t truly exist?

 

[Bubble]

Laurence of PA wrote,

My goal here is to see which brand of Opium (see signature below) is best for the masses and which one causes common-sense-damaging brain tumors. Maybe their both safe! Maybe some people just overdose! OR…Maybe some don’t wash it down with enough water!

Human evolution has favored those humans with a sense of altruism

, for the resulting sentients are *better able *to create inter-dependent communities wherein each individual may contribute its comparitively unique resources towards the survival and ease of all within the group.

Thus, my genes have made me derive a sense of euphoria from seeing my fellow species NOT beaten and tortured by misguided individuals with flaming Olive Branches.

So, if religion “A” doesn’t allow this, then Hooray evolutionary euphoria!

However, if religion “B” promotes such a waste of perfectly good Olive Branches, then that religion would be a terrible influence on society, because it would prevent the majority of us selfish humans from selfishly getting high on our selfish altruism.

But luckily, I bet your genome isn’t as selfish!

You forget religion “C”, which is athiesm. If the prevelance of murder in a society is the measure of which OPIUM is best, then religions with a God are winning over religions without a God. The 20th Century will attest to this.

Atheist communists in the 20th century killed more people than the Church has ever been accused of killing. In China, more that 65 million and counting have been murdered. More than 20 million in the former USSR. 2 million and rising in North Korea. At least 2 million in Cambodia. Almost 2 million in Africa. Somewhere around 1 million in Vietnam. Another million in the communist places of Eastern Europe. At least 150,000 in Latin America.

If you think booting God of society is the cure-all for wickedness, look at the above numbers and you will see that you are sorely mistaken. The athiest ideal has already been implemented on a wide scale and instead of freeing the masses from tyranny and decreasing human misery, it seems to have had the opposite effect.