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Seeking12
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The first two paragraphs are accurate, but then starting from the third paragraph it digresses dramatically. The private judgment has been and will continue to be practiced throughout all denominations including the Catholic church; however no one is able to understand unless they are submissive to God and are actually Christians whose true and only reliable supernatural teacher is the Holy Spirit.
First Corinthians 2:7 says, “We speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined before the ages to our glory.” The Greek word translated “mystery” doesn’t refer to something strange or puzzling; it’s a technical term for the kind of truth man has not previously known but is now revealed.
No one can come to that truth by himself because of sin. “A natural man [an unconverted person] does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised” (1 Cor. 2:14)
1 Corinthians 2:10 says, “To us God revealed [His truths] through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.” The Holy Spirit-the divine Author of Scripture-searches the deep recesses of God’s Person and knows the mind of God perfectly. Therefore He is able to reveal God and God’s will completely, but only to those whom He has predestined.
To those deep things of God, Paul says, “we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words” (2:13). You have a resident “Truth Teacher” to enlighten you about essential spiritual truths. The Holy Spirit takes God’s Word, the Word He has revealed and inspired, and illuminates it for those in whom He dwells. One can rightly appraise the Word, but only when you rely on and have received the Giver of the Word.
Paul concluded, “We have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:16). You can understand if you are diligent and obedient to study and submit to it. Because it is revealed, its authenticity is guaranteed. Because it is inspired, its accuracy is guaranteed. And because it is illumined, its applicability is guaranteed.
The real problem, which has caused much confusion, is that most people who name the name of Jesus are not believers at all.
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Seeking12
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**Thanks, I looked at this one and it proves the point on the above post; there is a lot of confusion, which is not from the Lord. So many people calling the name of Jesus, but few actually have Him.
My understanding and belief that all doctrines of faith and all tradition or practice is tested against the truth of God. Since we know that God spoke in the Scripture; therefore is the only true and infallible litmus, which all things relating to faith and practice are to be compared. This does not eliminate traditions, but it does prevent traditions and doctrines from being added to or subtracted from the truth of God that does not meet the standards God set forth in His word. It is not the other way around where traditions or other doctrines define Scripture, this is where all the cults and isms originate from.**
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TommyWommy
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Catholics believe that, as in 1Tim 3:15, it is the CHURCH which is the grounding and pillar of the truth. Scripture is PART of the truth that the Holy Spirit (“Truth Teacher”) has revealed and continues to reveal (i.e. the deposit of faith). The revelation was (and is) given to the Church to teach to us. One’s “resident” Truth Teacher should direct one to the Church (which is the Body of Christ, the Word become flesh) and its teachings. Otherwise, we as inividuals, end up usurping the authority Christ gave to the Church from the very start. The Giver of the Word IS the Word. And the Church is His Body. This is why the Catholic Church was able to exist for so long WITHOUT an assembled, agreed upon, canon of Scripture. The truth contained in the Bible was first revealed to the Church, before anyone ever wrote it down. Like those who submitted to the oral teachings of the Apostles, we are called to submit to the Catholic Church, because the Church IS Christ. And Christ IS the Word. I believe Protestantism has the cart before the horse.
Everyone from Luther, to Calvin, to Knox, to Wesely, to Clarence Larkin, to Peter Ruckman, to Benny Hinn, etc., etc., claims to be following this “resident Truth Teacher.” Which ones are “true” believers, and which ones are “right?” For that matter, how could I ever assume that YOU are right?
And you couldn’t assume that I am right. Gotta turn to the authority of Christ’s Church, just like the Ethiopian Eunuch had to turn to Philip.I’m sticking with the Church Christ directly gave His authority to, and the one that wrote the New Testament and assembled the canon . I didn’t like being adrift and at the mercy of every wind of doctrine. Won’t make that mistake again!
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Seeking12
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**Catholics believe that, as in 1Tim 3:15, it is the CHURCH which is the grounding and pillar of the truth. Scripture is PART of the truth that the Holy Spirit (“Truth Teacher”) has revealed and continues to reveal (i.e. the deposit of faith). The revelation was (and is) given to the Church to teach to us. One’s “resident” Truth Teacher should direct one to the Church (which is the Body of Christ, the Word become flesh) and its teachings. Otherwise, we as inividuals, end up usurping the authority Christ gave to the Church from the very start. The Giver of the Word IS the Word. And the Church is His Body. This is why the Catholic Church was able to exist for so long WITHOUT an assembled, agreed upon, canon of Scripture. The truth contained in the Bible was first revealed to the Church, before anyone ever wrote it down. Like those who submitted to the oral teachings of the Apostles, we are called to submit to the Catholic Church, because the Church IS Christ. And Christ IS the Word. I believe Protestantism has the cart before the horse.
Everyone from Luther, to Calvin, to Knox, to Wesely, to Clarence Larkin, to Peter Ruckman, to Benny Hinn, etc., etc., claims to be following this “resident Truth Teacher.” Which ones are “true” believers, and which ones are “right?” For that matter, how could I ever assume that YOU are right?
I’m sticking with the Church Christ directly gave His authority to, and the one that wrote the New Testament and assembled the canon . I didn’t like being adrift and at the mercy of every wind of doctrine. Won’t make that mistake again!
As I said before and will restate; the problem is that there are few that have the Holy Spirit; because there a great many more that make some sort of confession, but do not possess the Holy Spirit. Christ works through individual hearts; those which the Father has given; one at a time. I’m not debating to whom you put your trust in; that is up to each individual, but there is only one lifetime on earth.**
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jmcrae
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And how does the individual discern which he is - false prophet, or true prophet - if there is no external standard by which he can measure himself?
The Holy Spirit speaks to the Church as a whole; not (normally) to individuals, separately, within it. The authority of the Church over its members is Scriptural. If the Holy Spirit had been speaking to all of the members of the church individually, then St. Paul would never have had to send them letters of instruction (since each individual would have heard the same Holy Spirit that St. Paul was hearing, and they all would have already known what to do), and St. John would never have had to send letters of discipline to his own parishes or dioceses - Jesus could have appeared to each of them individually, in person.
But God doesn’t choose to work that way. God works through human authorities that He Himself has set into place.
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royal_archer
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Then do not put your trust in individuals. Put your trust in the authority bestowed for us by God: The church.
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Seeking12
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**Sounds like you have chosen to put your eternal trust into your Church; I hope your judgment is correct; but it doesn’t appear to be biblical.
God will answer your specific question. Romans 8:13-16 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, (This is supernatural, as one would expect-a true miracle) **
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royal_archer
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If you read the bible you will see where God extablished the church and passed the Holy Spirit to the Appostles. Those Appostles and their spiritual descendents are the leaders of the Catholic Church.
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Seeking12
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I have read the Bible many times and I have never seen anything that resembles what you describe. I assume that most people here are Catholics and put their faith in the Church; that is a personal decision; God works on individuals one person at a time in an intimate level.
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royal_archer
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Seeking12
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What? Am I to accept this as evidence and say you are correct? You have made a choice to believe whatever it is you believe; you did not take time to explain from Scripture your position. I do not dispute your sincerity or convictions.
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royal_archer
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Did you read the quotes?
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TommyWommy
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Well, this is the Catholic Answers Forum.
There are lots of answers here if you want them.
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Seeking12
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Yes; but without your contextual understanding; how can one respond. The passages say a lot about interactions between the Apostles and Jesus, but nothing about a Catholic church or any form of succession. Perhaps you would like to make some point?
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jmcrae
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John 20:19-23
Jesus passes His divine authority to the Apostles (as the Father sent me, I now send you - they now have the same degree of authority as Jesus), breathes on them (note that this is the first time God has breathed on human beings since God breathed life into Adam) and gives them the ability to forgive sins in the Confessional.
Mathew 28:16-20
Again, Jesus passes His authority to the 11, and gives them the authority to teach in HIs name and to administer the Sacrament of Baptism.
Mark 16:14-18
Again, Jesus gives His authority to the 11, to teach and to baptize, and tells them that whoever believes their words and submits to their authority in baptism is saved, but whoever does not, will not be saved. (Jesus is saying that outside the authority of the Apostles, aka His Church, there is no salvation.)
Luke 24:45-49
Jesus again confers His authority on the Apostles, and tells them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come to them, in the city.
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Seeking12
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jmcrae
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The “guy in the booth” received authority to forgive sins from Christ, who gave it to the Apostles, who gave it to the Bishops of the Catholic Church, who passed it to other Bishops along with their own priests, who passed it to yet other Bishops along with their own priests, on down throughout time until your Bishop received it, and gave it to that priest who is in the booth, in an unbroken line of authority according to God’s chain of command.
What’s the difference between a command and a saving work? Since the disobedient cannot be saved. But St. Peter tells us, “Baptism now saves us.” I Peter 3:21.
Baptism is spiritual. The physical signs are there to tell us what is going on in the spiritual world, while the baptism is taking place.
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Seeking12
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Water baptism is a command and is an outward sign of an inward faith.The “guy in the booth” received authority to forgive sins from Christ, who gave it to the Apostles, who gave it to the Bishops of the Catholic Church, who passed it to other Bishops along with their own priests, who passed it to yet other Bishops along with their own priests, on down throughout time until your Bishop received it, and gave it to that priest who is in the booth, in an unbroken line of authority according to God’s chain of command.
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
"Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, "
"in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. "
“open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.”
“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”
**
What’s the difference between a command and a saving work? Since the disobedient cannot be saved. But St. Peter tells us, “Baptism now saves us.” I Peter 3:21. A saving work does not exist in Scripture except the work of God alone. A command is God telling us how to live, worship and/or give glory to Him.
Baptism is spiritual. The physical signs are there to tell us what is going on in the spiritual world, while the baptism is taking place.
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royal_archer
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That is the first passing of God’s authority to mankind. This authority has been passed down through the Bishops to the prestent day. This is why the Roman Catholic Church is in communion with other Catholic churches; they are all based on Apastolic lineage.
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