Bible corruption/islamic point of view

[inJESUS]

Why do I say it has been my observation that you take everything concerning God literally? Well, that is my opinion based on the posts made on this forum. Just look at the Muslim reaction to “Son of God”. How many times have we read that God does not sire children? Really, who is being literal?

mohammad. “How can allah have a son when he has no consort”??

We do esteem God as omnipresent and omnipotent and do not limit His nature. Do Muslim consider God omnipresent or do they limit Him? Do Muslims maintain that God can be three in one or do they say that is impossible and limit God?

muslims do not know the nature of God…allah is one: correct; allah does not beget ( sexually): correct; allah has no wife : correct. What did mohammad say that was not known before him? nothing. He was refuting the people we refute as well…he didnt even come close, in 23 years of “revelation” to what we believe in thats why muslims undesrtand nothing of our belief.

What is the nature of this oness??

 

[George_Waters]

JimG, Post #12 on “Why can’t muslim’s understand?”

“It seems from the posts from Muslims that I have seen here, that Muslims tend toward both literalness and sola scriptura when it comes to the scritpures, much like many Protestants. “

See gurrato alaien, it is not just me who has noticed the literalness of many Muslims members of this forum.

 

[LtTony]

George Waters:

Based on this forum it seems that while Muslims have no concrete documentary evidence that the Bible is corrupt some will keep insisting it is so and the only sources they can cite are works done hundreds if not thousands of years later with a blatant religious or political agenda. (It is amusing how any scholar, public or religious person becomes great if they agree with Islam regardless of how obscure they are or how self-serving their motivations.)

It also appears that most Muslim members of this forum seem to take everything concerning God literally as if God must operate according to our limited knowledge and understanding and preconceived notions. Except in cases where they can not readily explain it and then cry we must just trust God.

I had always believed Islam was far more learned on such matters, but the majority of posts on this forum have sadly led me to believe otherwise.

Unfortunately George, I am coming to the same conclusion. They keep pounding away at the same arguments that have probably been around for a couple hundred years. If they want to buy them, then fine. But Christians and Muslims can still have an understanding. Though I admit it is difficult to have a serious discussion with someone who can’t get their brain wrapped around anything past genitalia and body functions.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Just I want to clarify one thing, Judaism and Christianity are not presented in scriptures a s religions, man made them into religions. So what does that mean. Man made them into religions. it mean they are false. No where in the Bible is the word Christianity. That was given by men after Jesus left this world. Moses did not come and say I am a Jew a prophet of Judaism. So these were manmade. False.

But Islam in the Quran

Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Also Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, NO. but in Quran yes:
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity, no but In Islam yes:

Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Here some QUESTIONS NOBODY WANTS TO ANSWER :

Does the Bible exist in the original form anywhere on earth? (No)

Why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible?

Why do these two Bibles have different versions of the same books?

Why are there so many mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse?

Why do ‘Born Again Christians’ teach concepts that are not from the Bible?

There is no word “Trinity” in the Bible in any version of any language

The oldest forms of Christianity do not support the ‘born again’ beliefs

What about the Bible? Who actually wrote it?

What was the original language of the Bible? (Hebrew? Aramaic? Koine Greek?)
NOTE: - The Bible was never in English during the time of any prophet (not even Muhammad) - because English did not exist until after 1066 AD!

Jesus of the English Bible complains about the ‘crucifixion’
(“Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani? - My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?”) [Mk 15:34]

How can Jesus be the “Only Begotten Son” of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God’s “Begotten Son?”

Would a ‘Just’ God, a ‘Fair’ God, a ‘Loving’ God – punish Jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?

What happens to people who died before Jesus came?

What happens to those who never hear this message?

What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?

Didn’t God create Adam from dirt? – So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?

And what about God?
How can God create Himself?
How can God be a man?
How can a man be a God?
How can God have a son?
The Bible says “Seth (is) the son of Adam” and that"Adam is the son of God." [Lk 3:36]
Can’t God just forgive us and not have to kill Jesus?
And what about Jesus?
Jesus did not even carry the cross – Simon Cyre’ne, a passerby did! [Mk 15:21]
Jesus of the Bible was NOT on the cross for longer than six (6) hours – NOT three days – (from the 3rd to the 9th hour) [Mk 15:25 & 15:33]
Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb – Friday night - until Sunday before dawn – is not 3 days and nights!
Jesus DID NOT claim to be God - or even equal to God!

Peace.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

LtTony:

Unfortunately George, I am coming to the same conclusion. They keep pounding away at the same arguments that have probably been around for a couple hundred years. If they want to buy them, then fine. But Christians and Muslims can still have an understanding. Though I admit it is difficult to have a serious discussion with someone who can’t get their brain wrapped around anything past genitalia and body functions.

yes, you are right its difficult to have a serious discussion with someone who keep ignoring the facts around him. and can’t get his brain wrapped around anything past that Jesus came to die for his sins.

Very sad

Peace.

 

[inJESUS]

Just I want to clarify one thing, Judaism and Christianity are not presented in scriptures…

:nope: your arguments are getting weaker & weaker. But hey!you are correct! God has NO religion…the jews were God’s chosen people and they were these jews that must have accepted God’s Messiah for them…when these people did not accept their Messiah, there was a need to label them in a different name than those who did accept the Messiah…if these people accepted him, there wouldnt be neither jews nor Christians but God’s chosen people coz "Christianity is the fulfillment of “judaism”.The quran calls them jews & Christians so why are you arguing?

But Islam in the Quran

yes as well as then the sun setting in a muddy spring and stars are to chase the jinn away so?

and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

THIS is man-made sentence. God has no religion and mohammad had nothing to do with the covenant of God with His people.

Also Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, NO.

u must be kidding…of course yes, in many passages.

but in Quran yes:
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)

& guess what? this applies to the Bible as well which is made clear in the following verses:

“And before thee We sent none but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri).” 16:43

“Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye know this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri).” 21:7

“In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron the Criterion (al-Furqana) (for judgment), And a Light and a Message (Zikra) for those who would do right.” 21:48

“Before this, We wrote in the Psalms, after THE REMINDER (Zhikri): `My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.’” 21:105

“We did aforetime give Moses the Guidance, and We gave the Book in inheritance to the Children of Israel - A Guide and A REMINDER (Zhikraa) to men of understanding.” 40:53-54

these show that the revelation given to Moses, david and the Book which Jews &Christians possessed at the time of muhammad is also part of that “Reminder” which God sent down &promised to preserve…so for u to state that the Bible is corrupt means that God failed to guard his message from corruption, breaking his promise of insuring its preservation

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity, no but In Islam yes:

this is proof that its man-made religion coz God has no religion.

Does the Bible exist in the original form anywhere on earth? (No)

do the qurans burnt by Uthman exist? no.

Why does the Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible?

protestant’s problem &hey, they are the product of 15th century.

Why do these two Bibles have different versions of the same books?

translations differ, very normal.

Why are there so many mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse?

what?

There is no word “Trinity” in the Bible in any version of any language

already explained.

What about the Bible? Who actually wrote it?

who wrote the quran?

What was the original language of the Bible? (Hebrew? Aramaic? Koine Greek?)

Hebrew & Greek.

NOTE: - The Bible was never in English during the time of any prophet (not even Muhammad) - because English did not exist until after 1066 AD!

so ?

Jesus of the English Bible complains about the ‘crucifixion’
(“Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani? - My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?”) [Mk 15:34]

so?

How can Jesus be the “Only Begotten Son” of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God’s “Begotten Son?”

explained a thousand time.

Would a ‘Just’ God, a ‘Fair’ God, a ‘Loving’ God – punish Jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?

u still dont understand the passion of Christ.

What happens to people who died before Jesus came?

What happens to those who never hear this message?

What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?

Didn’t God create Adam from dirt? – So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?

…

Jesus did not even carry the cross – Simon Cyre’ne, a passerby did! [Mk 15:21]

kidding right?

Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb – Friday night - until Sunday before dawn – is not 3 days and nights!

learn how days were counted 2000 years ago.

Jesus DID NOT claim to be God - or even equal to God!

a hundred time He did.

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

yes, you are right its difficult to have a serious discussion with someone who keep ignoring the facts around him. and can’t get his brain wrapped around anything past that Jesus came to die for his sins.

Very sad

Peace.

facts? what facts? you gave absolutely no fact; on the contrary , i gave you facts from quran itself : first you refused them, later you accepted them but said the Bible we have is not the same! is THIS a fact? is it written in quran? why did allah ask you to read our Book if he knew it was NOT the same one at mohammads time or why did he ask you to read & revere it if he knew it was going to disappear from our planet? talk about facts.

1- the quran says the Bible is the Word of God.
2-the quran says Allah will preserve the Bible.
3- the quran does NOT mention any Bible that we don’t have.
4- the quran quote passages not only from Moses a proof that not only Moses’ book was considere God’s word.
5- the quran asks you to revere our Book, which, if Allah knew it was corrupt or going to be corrupt, he’d have told yu: do NOT REFER to the Book and he wouldnt have asked jews andChristians to read their Book as a final “revelation” from Allah.
6- Cristians &Jews did NOT have a different Bible: Jews for 2500, Christians from the 2nd century, that is, 1800 years.
7- Jews and Romans killed Jesus: this is a FACT; what is the FACT of mohammad? nothing, even history refutes him.

THESE are facts. Where are yours?

Do you believe in a God who keeps His Word or not?

PS: did you read the link i gave to a book in arabic? it will show you without any doubt what is the quran…if you want to discuss it, go ahead.

 

[George_Waters]

gurrato alaien:

Here some QUESTIONS NOBODY WANTS TO ANSWER

Well gurrato alaien it seems you have found someone who is willing to answer the questions nobody wants to answer. I have some questions that I have yet to get an answer from any Muslims on this forum. Would you like me to post them again to see if you are willing to answer them?

 

[gurrato_alaien]

inJESUS:

facts? what facts? you gave absolutely no fact; on the contrary , i gave you facts from quran itself : first you refused them, later you accepted them but said the Bible we have is not the same! is THIS a fact? is it written in quran? why did allah ask you to read our Book if he knew it was NOT the same one at mohammads time or why did he ask you to read & revere it if he knew it was going to disappear from our planet? talk about facts.

1- the quran says the Bible is the Word of God.
2-the quran says Allah will preserve the Bible.
3- the quran does NOT mention any Bible that we don’t have.
4- the quran quote passages not only from Moses a proof that not only Moses’ book was considere God’s word.
5- the quran asks you to revere our Book, which, if Allah knew it was corrupt or going to be corrupt, he’d have told yu: do NOT REFER to the Book and he wouldnt have asked jews andChristians to read their Book as a final “revelation” from Allah.
6- Cristians &Jews did NOT have a different Bible: Jews for 2500, Christians from the 2nd century, that is, 1800 years.
7- Jews and Romans killed Jesus: this is a FACT; what is the FACT of mohammad? nothing, even history refutes him.

THESE are facts. Where are yours?

Do you believe in a God who keeps His Word or not?

PS: did you read the link i gave to a book in arabic? it will show you without any doubt what is the quran…if you want to discuss it, go ahead.

1- Yes but not nowadays bible.
2- No
3- Quran mentioned the original one which has been revealed to Jesus,
4- So?
5- Not nowadays bible, its from the faith pillars if Islam to believe that God sent prophets with scriptures including Jesus and the bible but we do not refer to them becasue man has touched Gods word and changed it.

6- Christianity and Judaism are contradict each other even in Christianity itself many denominations each on contradict each other and you have admitted:

inJESUS: protestant’s problem &hey, they are the product of 15th century..

7- History was witness to him as a great man. Even non-Muslims, please read this:

islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/aboutmohamed/article01.shtml

This is the fact
Peace

 

[gurrato_alaien]

George Waters:

Well gurrato alaien it seems you have found someone who is willing to answer the questions nobody wants to answer. I have some questions that I have yet to get an answer from any Muslims on this forum. Would you like me to post them again to see if you are willing to answer them?

No, nobody answered these Questions in proper answers.
its not convinced even themself.

and feel free to ask me any question you want.

Peace.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

inJESUS:

u must be kidding…of course yes, in many passages.
.

Ok show me one verse from the bible say that God will guard your bible from corruption.

inJESUS:

& guess what? this applies to the Bible as well which is made clear in the following verses:

“And before thee We sent none but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri).” 16:43

“Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye know this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri).” 21:7

“In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron the Criterion (al-Furqana) (for judgment), And a Light and a Message (Zikra) for those who would do right.” 21:48

“Before this, We wrote in the Psalms, after THE REMINDER (Zhikri): `My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.’” 21:105

“We did aforetime give Moses the Guidance, and We gave the Book in inheritance to the Children of Israel - A Guide and A REMINDER (Zhikraa) to men of understanding.” 40:53-54

these show that the revelation given to Moses, david and the Book which Jews &Christians possessed at the time of muhammad is also part of that “Reminder” which God sent down &promised to preserve…so for u to state that the Bible is corrupt means that God failed to guard his message from corruption, breaking his promise of insuring its preservation

MMM, you failed to bring even one verse from the bible say that God will guard your bible from corruption and you quoted from quran and interpreted yourself as you like that it refer to your bible as well.!!!

This verse refer to Quraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)

Peace.

 

[inJESUS]

Ok show me one verse from the bible say that God will guard your bible from corruption.

MMM, you failed to bring even one verse from the bible say that God will guard your bible from corruption and you quoted from quran and interpreted yourself as you like that it refer to your bible as well.!!!

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
(Deuteronomy 4:1-2)

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ) (Mark 13:31)

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)

This verse refer to Quraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)

hehehe quraaaaaan…noooooooooo the 5,6 verses i quoted are not about quraaaaaan but the scriptures before quraaaaaaan

 

[inJESUS]

No, nobody answered these Questions in proper answers.

you have been here for like 6 monthes and all the queastions you asked were already answered…check the new and previous threads again…if you don’t find your answers, open another thread again.

its not convinced even themself.

you mean we are not convinced? am sure this was a joke

 

[inJESUS]

1- Yes but not nowadays bible.

there was no Bible other than the one we have…give proof…otherwise, your faith is based on speculations, just like Jesus’ death.

2- No

hehe of course yes…read the verses again.

3- Quran mentioned the original one which has been revealed to Jesus,

which is the only one the Jews had for 2500 years and archeology and history and Dead Sea Scrolls proved it as well…give proof if you can…

4- So?

so? it was not only Moses’ books thaT WERE CONSIDERED THE tORAH ACCORDING TO MOHAMMAD.

5- Not nowadays bible, its from the faith pillars if Islam to believe that God sent prophets with scriptures including Jesus and the bible but we do not refer to them becasue man has touched Gods word and changed it.

Yes but allah knew it…why did he ask you to revere a non-existent book or a book that will disappear? and why did he tell mohammad that his name is in the scriptures if these scriptures are going to be wiped off from earth for years? you still did not see mohammads name for 1400 years…fishy isnt it?

6- Christianity and Judaism are contradict each other even in Christianity itself many denominations each on contradict each other and you have admitted:

no contradiction about the core of faith but about teachings…and not contradiction but different interpretations…i think this exists in islam as well, or should we believe Ghulam Ahmad as well?
And no, Christianity is the fulfilment, not contradiction…if jews accepted Jesus, there would be no “judaism” anymore but only God’s chosen people that ishmael and mohamad ( if we accept he is his descendant) do not belong to.

7- History was witness to him as a great man. Even non-Muslims, please read this:

i read them long time ago…many people love and praise Hitler as well…i guess it is irrelevant…ask the jews about Jesus, you’ll get the worse replies…is it true? no.

This is the fact

this is the fact you have? that people gave good opinions about mohammad?? do you call this a FACT?? this is mere opinion…give historical, archeological facts…you can’t…so you either prove the Bible is wrong, or you save your energy on this topic…you couldnt prove it for 1400 years and you will never be able to. What kind of new trick is this by Allah that the “true” Bible disappeared for 3000 years? or maybe 1400 years? you are asked to look for mohamad in a non-existent book? weird…keep speculating, just like the jews who are waiting for their first Messiah…the Messiah is here, the salvation is here…but alas, eyes that do not see, ears do not listen…spiritual blindness.

you have never replied to : do you believe in a God that keeps His word or not?

 

[Cyber_Knight]

standing applause for InJESUS :clapping: ! Jesus indeed lives in you, girl!!

:bowdown2: