Bible Interpretation and the Catholic Church

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Timothy_Piper said:
The Holy Spirit is the only way to understand the things of God and is given to each Christian for that very purpose among others.

26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

There are many more verses that tell us the Holy Spirit teaches and guides the Christian; you will not find in Scripture that it was given in any other manner regardless of what men will say.
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Are you disregarding the Church that Christ founded? He did not establish individual believers, as is a modern man-made practice. Notice that the Holy Spirit was breathed by Christ only upon the Apostles (not the crowds), and descended only upon the Apostles (not upon the crowds) as tongues of fire. Of course, individual Christians receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but we are intended to use Him to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus into His one Church, which is the “pillar and foundation of truth”. If you believe that you are individually always guided by the Holy Spirit, and do not need the guidance of Christ’s authoritative Church, you are prey to evil spirits, which mimic the Holy Spirit in everything but truth. They produce false doctrines, false christs and anti-christs, to “lead even the elect astray, if that were possible”.

The Holy Spirit unites.
The demon divides.
 
po18guy said:
Are you disregarding the Church that Christ founded? He did not establish individual believers, as is a modern man-made practice. Notice that the Holy Spirit was breathed by Christ only upon the Apostles (not the crowds), and descended only upon the Apostles (not upon the crowds) as tongues of fire. Of course, individual Christians receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but we are intended to use Him to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus into His one Church, which is the “pillar and foundation of truth”. If you believe that you are individually always guided by the Holy Spirit, and do not need the guidance of Christ’s authoritative Church, you are prey to evil spirits, which mimic the Holy Spirit in everything but truth. They produce false doctrines, false christs and anti-christs, to “lead even the elect astray, if that were possible”.

The Holy Spirit unites.
The demon divides.
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It sounds like you would agree with a Catholic priest who once told me that I “shouldn’t be reading the bible without a Catholic commentary”. Would you agree with that statement?
 
po18guy said:
Are you disregarding the Church that Christ founded? He did not establish individual believers, as is a modern man-made practice. Notice that the Holy Spirit was breathed by Christ only upon the Apostles (not the crowds), and descended only upon the Apostles (not upon the crowds) as tongues of fire. Of course, individual Christians receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but we are intended to use Him to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus into His one Church, which is the “pillar and foundation of truth”. If you believe that you are individually always guided by the Holy Spirit, and do not need the guidance of Christ’s authoritative Church, you are prey to evil spirits, which mimic the Holy Spirit in everything but truth. They produce false doctrines, false christs and anti-christs, to “lead even the elect astray, if that were possible”.

The Holy Spirit unites.
The demon divides.
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“But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,”

How does one disregard that which one is a member of? Read your Bible if you care to learn something new about God’s ways; start with Acts 2, Acts 10 & Acts 11 and see how the Holy Spirit descended on a myriad of believers as Peter was speaking. Then, read John chapter 17 and when you get to the part where Jesus not only prays for the disciples, but for all of those that would hear the message and believe.

Thank you for the insults; God had something to warn about these things and I do thank you for the blessings and count it as all joy.🙂

Mark 7
20 And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting {and} wickedness, {as well} {as} deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride {and} foolishness. 23 “All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

James 3
4 Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. 5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and {yet} it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the {very} world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of {our} life, and is set on fire by hell. 7 For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. 8 But no one can tame the tongue; {it is} a restless evil {and} full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless {our} Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10 from the same mouth come {both} blessing and cursing.
 
po18guy said:
Are you disregarding the Church that Christ founded? He did not establish individual believers, as is a modern man-made practice. Notice that the Holy Spirit was breathed by Christ only upon the Apostles (not the crowds), and descended only upon the Apostles (not upon the crowds) as tongues of fire. Of course, individual Christians receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but we are intended to use Him to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus into His one Church, which is the “pillar and foundation of truth”. If you believe that you are individually always guided by the Holy Spirit, and do not need the guidance of Christ’s authoritative Church, you are prey to evil spirits, which mimic the Holy Spirit in everything but truth. They produce false doctrines, false christs and anti-christs, to “lead even the elect astray, if that were possible”.

The Holy Spirit unites.
The demon divides.
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How do you know the Holy Spirit was only given to Apostles? Mary was not an Apostle, she didn’t receive the Holy Spirit? In Acts, Mary, other women, and brothers of Jesus were in the upper room (see Ch. 1).
 
Timothy_Piper said:
“But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,”

How does one disregard that which one is a member of? Read your Bible if you care to learn something new about God’s ways; start with Acts 2, Acts 10 & Acts 11 and see how the Holy Spirit descended on a myriad of believers as Peter was speaking. Then, read John chapter 17 and when you get to the part where Jesus not only prays for the disciples, but for all of those that would hear the message and believe.

Thank you for the insults; God had something to warn about these things and I do thank you for the blessings and count it as all joy.🙂

Mark 7
20 And He was saying, "That which proceeds out of the man, that is what defiles the man. 21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting {and} wickedness, {as well} {as} deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride {and} foolishness. 23 “All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

James 3
4 Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. 5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and {yet} it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the {very} world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of {our} life, and is set on fire by hell. 7 For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. 8 But no one can tame the tongue; {it is} a restless evil {and} full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless {our} Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; 10 from the same mouth come {both} blessing and cursing.
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Insults? Look again. I was asking a question. Not one of your quotes has anything at all to do with private interpretation of scripture. It is not authorized anywhere in the bible. In fact, it is prohibited by the bible.

2 Peter 1:20 (King James Version)

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation”.

I have a responsibility before God to lead errant brothers and sisters back to the fulness of truth as revealed by Christ to His One Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I am Catholic. I see that you do not reveal your denomination. What is it?
 
diggerdomer said:
How do you know the Holy Spirit was only given to Apostles? Mary was not an Apostle, she didn’t receive the Holy Spirit? In Acts, Mary, other women, and brothers of Jesus were in the upper room (see Ch. 1).
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I was referring to specific cases in scripture, where Jesus breathed the Spirit upon the Apostles (giving them unprecedented authority), and when the Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Both cases were specific to the Apostles. Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

What I am trying to say is that each of the thousands of denominations think they are lead by the Holy Spirit and no other. They are absolutely wrong because the Holy Spirit leads to unity and not division.
 
Priscilla_Ann said:
It sounds like you would agree with a Catholic priest who once told me that I “shouldn’t be reading the bible without a Catholic commentary”. Would you agree with that statement?
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Why not? It was the Catholic Church councils that argued over and canonized scripture into what we know as the bible. Should we not listen to the authority which accomplished that?
 
po18guy said:
I was referring to specific cases in scripture, where Jesus breathed the Spirit upon the Apostles (giving them unprecedented authority), and when the Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Both cases were specific to the Apostles. Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

What I am trying to say is that each of the thousands of denominations think they are lead by the Holy Spirit and no other. They are absolutely wrong because the Holy Spirit leads to unity and not division.
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I don’t read the Acts of the Apostles’ account of Pentecost to say that only the Apostles received the Holy Spirit. Do you?

I agree the Holy Spirit leads to unity, but to me that doesn’t mean that all Christians do not have the Holy Spirit.
 
po18guy said:
Why not? It was the Catholic Church councils that argued over and canonized scripture into what we know as the bible. Should we not listen to the authority which accomplished that?
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I wouldn’t agree. All Christians should read and pray with Scripture. As Catholics do at liturgy, for instance.
 
diggerdomer said:
I don’t read the Acts of the Apostles’ account of Pentecost to say that only the Apostles received the Holy Spirit. Do you?
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The point I was so poorly trying to make is that Jesus specifically empowered His Apostles, on two occasions, with the Holy Spirit and sent them forth to teach, with the Holy Spirit reminding them of all that He taught them. Many bible-only Christians seem to think that it is only the Holy Spirit that can lead them. Not so, if you read 1 and 2 John. Nearly all Christians have the Holy Spirit, but how can they know that they are being lead by Him, with no Church authority whatsoever to confirm or deny? That is why we have thousands of disagreeing denominations which have shattered the Body of Christ. Clearly, some of them are lead by the spirit of division.
 
po18guy said:
Insults? Look again. I was asking a question. Not one of your quotes has anything at all to do with private interpretation of scripture. It is not authorized anywhere in the bible. In fact, it is prohibited by the bible.

2 Peter 1:20 (King James Version)

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation”.

I have a responsibility before God to lead errant brothers and sisters back to the fulness of truth as revealed by Christ to His One Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I am Catholic. I see that you do not reveal your denomination. What is it?
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What part of the following do you not understand?
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

{that is} the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

"the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth"

God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification **by the Spirit and faith in the truth. **

We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

The only correct interpretation of the Truth of Salvation will ONLY come from God working in and through the CHRISTIAN by the power of the Holy Spirit of TRUTH.
 
diggerdomer said:
No of course not. Who determines what is erroneous?
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The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which had the authority to both interpret and to canonize scripture. This power was given to the Apostles by Jesus, as recorded in scripture, and was then passed on from them to their successors. You certainly already know this, but others on this thread have likely not heard this before.
 
wmscott said:
2 Peter 1:18-21

18 We ourselves heard this voice come from heaven while we were with him on the holy mountain.
19 Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
20 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,
21 for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
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Perfect, and Biblical!
The Catholic Church recognizes there are passages that are direct and to the point and can be understood by most people and others that require the guidence of the Church. Bibles (Catholic) containing subscripts and references to related passages are very helpful for those verses that may raise a question but it is often good to check those references regardless as there are times that a person may think they understand but on reading the accompanying interpretations find it means something they hadn’t realized.
 
Tinothy, first, let’s examine the premise of this entire discourse: You signed up on a Catholic forum at Catholic.com. You knew that this site is dedicated to explaining and defending the Catholic faith, which you may not know: traces directly back to Christ in an unbroken line. Each Catholic priest is able to trace his ordination back to one of the twelve Apostles. So, taking this into account, why are you surprised to confront a defense of the Catholic faith at catholic.com? I assure you that many here held your same belifs, in the best of faith, but have come to see that the truest, most faithful Church is this one. That is why I chose the Catholic Church.
Timothy_Piper said:
What part of the following do you not understand?
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
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Yes, Jesus Christ not only became wisdom, He is wisdom. All of this scripture is true, as is all scripture. However, it is the context that you use it in that makes all of the difference. Scripture was used by the devil to tempt Jesus. And the evil one has more knowledge of scripture than you or I. Was the devil correct in his interpretation?
{that is} the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, {but} you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
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Context: This is addressed to Christians versus the unbaptized, secular world. Where does it say that each individual has the authority to prophesy or interpret scripture simply due to a professed belief in Christ? I think that things not present are being read into scripture here.

Nearly all Christians have the Holy Spirit, but He was not promised to remind us what Jesus taught us, because Jesus taught only the Apostles and sent them forth as teachers. We all have a share in this, but we are not the authorities that the Apostles or their successors are. We must turn to them, for they possess the teaching authority. Certaianly you have read James
"the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth"
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Context: Jesus spoke this directly to the Apostles, and no one else.
God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification **by the Spirit and faith in the truth. **
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Context: This relates to sanctification and salvation. It says nothing about the ability to prophesy or interpret scripture. Saint Paul says that each is given a different gift (1 Corinthians 12:8-10). Not all are given the gift of prophecy.
We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
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Context. This is about discernment of spirits, not about the ability to prophesy or interpret scripture.
It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
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Context. This is a declaration of pure truth. It is exactly the same as declaring that Jesus is Lord. Where does this say that Timothy Piper (i.e. all Christians) has the authority to prophesy or interpret?
The only correct interpretation of the Truth of Salvation will ONLY come from God working in and through the CHRISTIAN by the power of the Holy Spirit of TRUTH.
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This is personal opinion. The bible does not say this!

I know that you love and trust Jesus Christ as your personal savior - just as all Catholics do. Bless you for your faith! However, you are laboring under the false assumption that you have somehow gained abilities to prophesy, interpret and teach that you may not have.

You profess to teach the faith. But James has warned us: (James 3:1) “Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”

As well, you believe in private interpretation. So what if I interpret the bible differently? We are just in different denominations. Why do you assume (at the terrible price) that only your version is correct? Please think about this.
 
po18guy said:
The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which had the authority to both interpret and to canonize scripture. This power was given to the Apostles by Jesus, as recorded in scripture, and was then passed on from them to their successors. You certainly already know this, but others on this thread have likely not heard this before.
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It seems logical to me that what you say is true, that the Catholic Church would be the authority on Bible interpretation. Having no experience with priests at all, however, I am wondering, has this power been transferred to all priests, or do you have to be careful, like you would with a doctor, lawer or veterinarian?
 
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