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seth349
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What is happening when somebody gets benched?
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po18guy
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Luther included them in his bible, only placing them at the end of the Old Testament. Since Luther’s time, the chasm between Christian brothers has only widened, and the books have been excluded from nearly all non-Catholic/Orthodox bibles. For information, the seven books are: Tobit, Judith, Wisdom (of Solomon), Sirach or Ecclesiasticus (which means church book), Baruch (the prophet Jeremiah’s secretary), and 1 & 2 Maccabees. Additionally, more complete versions of Esther and Daniel are in the Catholic bibles, as is Psalm 151.
Together, these are known as the “deuterocanon” (second canon), similar to the title of Deuteronomy, which means “second law”.
po18guy
Well-known member
He is just taking a short leave and will be back.
po18guy
Well-known member
Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be opened unto you. I am a lightweight here. I can point you to some of the masters.
Judas relinquished his Apostleship when he betrayed Jesus. That is what lead to his replacement in Acts 1:20. This is the first recorded example of Apostolic authority being exercised to appoint a successor.
Certainly! Nearly every Christian has received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. However, some do not have Him until hands are laid on them (Acts 8:14-17).
Compare this with Deuteronomy 34:9, where Moses laid hands on Joshua, who then received the Holy Spirit. Not just anyone can do it, so we leave it to the experts.
po18guy
Well-known member
I note that the King James Version is more accurate than most modern translations in both 1 Timothy and 2 Thessalonains. Even the New International Version, featured as the default bible at the Protestant site www.biblegateway.com translates 1 Timothy correctly. However, it goes on to fail the 2 Thessalonians 2:15 test. It seems that there are those who not only cherry pick their scripture quotes, they cherry pick their bibles as well. This grieves our Lord, as it is not a denial of self, but rather an indulgence of self. The spirit of division is hard at work in the Body of Christ.
1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 (New International Version) if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (King James Version) Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (New International Version) So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
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peary1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by **seth349 **
It seems logical to me that what you say is true, that the Catholic Church would be the authority on Bible interpretation. Having no experience with priests at all, however, I am wondering, has this power been transferred to all priests, or do you have to be careful, like you would with a doctor, lawer or veterinarian?
The Teaching Magisterium of the Church. By the Magisterium we mean the *teaching *office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops only. Though technically both the pope and bishops are priests, their hierarchical status in the Church is what separates them from the common priesthood.
A “theologian” or ordinary priest who would claim he needs to be able to ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is strangely perverse: the teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of finding the truth. Nor could he claim academic freedom lets him contradict the Church. In any field of knowledge, academic freedom belongs only to a properly qualified professor teaching in his own field. But one is not properly qualified if he does not use the correct method of working in his field.
In Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10): “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”
Originally Posted by **seth349 **
It seems logical to me that what you say is true, that the Catholic Church would be the authority on Bible interpretation. Having no experience with priests at all, however, I am wondering, has this power been transferred to all priests, or do you have to be careful, like you would with a doctor, lawer or veterinarian?
The Teaching Magisterium of the Church. By the Magisterium we mean the *teaching *office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops only. Though technically both the pope and bishops are priests, their hierarchical status in the Church is what separates them from the common priesthood.
A “theologian” or ordinary priest who would claim he needs to be able to ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is strangely perverse: the teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of finding the truth. Nor could he claim academic freedom lets him contradict the Church. In any field of knowledge, academic freedom belongs only to a properly qualified professor teaching in his own field. But one is not properly qualified if he does not use the correct method of working in his field.
In Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10): “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”
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seth349
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Seems reasonable. Do you know of any “theologians” or ordinary priests who have ignored the Magisterium in an attempt to find the truth? Also, I am wondering if any of the Magisterium have ever had to be replaced for reasons similar to those that caused Judas to be replaced?
po18guy
Well-known member
Pardon me for butting in here. There most certainly are priests, and a Bishop or three who have, through ego and disobedience, searched elsewhere for “truth”. They have either become bitter and anti-Church, or have formed tiny sects which claim to know the truth. For them to search outside of the authority vested by Jesus Christ in His Church tells you that they have not only violated their solemn vows, but that they somehow believe they have some special mission by themselves. This also occurred in the early 16th century and lead to the greatest division and disagreement within the Body of Christ. It is the spirit of division that sows these seeds.
But, the Magisterium is not a physical thing, or a person - it is pure power from God. It is the authority that Christ gave to the Apostles in Matthew 28:19, John 14:26, Luke 10:16 and elsewhere, and the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit to teach and be guided into the truth. Remember that the bible is incomplete, and bears witness to that fact (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40, 1 Corinthians 11:34 and elsewhere) Thus, much of Christ’s teaching, as well as the structure, operation, as well as many beliefs of the Apostolic Church are not written, since they were transmitted orally - which is exactly how Jesus taught and preached for three years. Jesus wrote nothing and did not command that anything be written. He gave the Apostles His perfect teaching and the Holy Spirit to both teach and guide them.
Those who choose a different path are separating themselves from this teaching and authority and are not lead by the Holy Spirit, but rather a spirit that seeks the destruction of Church unity. As to Judas, his office continued as long as he was obedient and did not betray our Lord. But, notice that the evil one entered into Judas only when Jesus’ ministry was completed. Judas taught nothing, and was not guided by the Holy Spirit, after “satan entered into him” (Luke 22:1-4, John 13:26-28). Thus, when the evil one overcame Judas’ faith, he abandoned his Apostleship.
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seth349
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The scriptures you have referenced bear you out, and logic alone rules out containing all his teachings in one small book.
I was wondering what you make of this bit of scripture. (Mark 9:22) And Jesus saith to him: If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. I am assuming he means only good things, not evil things, or things detrimental to the soul. For example, if I believe in Him and win the lottery then I am in a position where it would be easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than to get into Heaven. But He does say “all” things.
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zach_dunn
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I’m assuming that a person with faith that powerful would not commit such an act in the first place . . .
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seth349
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You might have something there. Perhaps if you believe in Jesus then you believe in his teachings and would aspire only to righteous things? Seems to make sense.I’m assuming that a person with faith that powerful would not commit such an act in the first place . . .
po18guy
Well-known member
I have not attempted to add up the days that are represented in the New Testament. I suspect that it is not much more that a month’s worth - out of three years. An awful lot is not in the bible. This alone points to another source for authoritative teaching.
As to the reading, Jesus is God - perfect and without sin. Thus, each of His teachings are in the realm of good. All things evil are not possible, as God’s power of good is superior. God and the evil one are not equal opposites, as God is infinite and the evil one is limited in what he can do. The evil one is extremely intelligent and cunning, but cannot overcome God’s will. Here, Jesus spoke of all good things being possible.
The context of Mark 9 is Jesus teaching the Apostles, reference verses 30-31 and 35. Jesus clearly wanted the boy’s father, but even more - the Apostles, to learn and to have faith. They were unable to drive the demon out, even after our Lord gave them authority over demons. So, they clearly lacked something. The boy’s father, in the presence of the Apostles, asked for help with his unbelief. Jesus, who often berated his Apostles for their lack of faith, knew that they were watching. Notice that, just after this, they were arguing over which of them was the greatest. They still had much to learn, including humility.
Jesus criticized the Apostles for their lack of faith in Matthew: 6:30, 8:26, 14:31, 16:8, 17:19-21, and 21:20-22; in Mark: 4:40, 11:21-23 and 16:14; in Luke: 8:25, 12:28 and 17:6; in John 14:12. In Luke 17:5, the Apostles asked Jesus to increase their faith. So, faith was their common failing and the subject of much of Jesus’ teaching.
As you look into Jesus’s teaching, you will be amazed at how much of it is directed only at the Apostles. So much of it is meant only for them. This is prophetic of their great commission in Matthew 28:19.
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seth349
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Very good. And yes, I have been surprised by the amount of scripture directed to the Apostles. I had not noticed this before. Are faith and belief the same thing?
po18guy
Well-known member
They are very similar, intertwined with one another, but I believe that faith comes first. Hebrews 11:1 teaches: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” Faith leads to beliefs, but faith is of the heart and beliefs are of the mind. However, since we are one body, and all of our parts function together, our hearts and minds complement one another. But, IMO, faith in the heart precedes belief in the mind. Having many beliefs does not necessarily lead to faith, but having great faith necessarily leads to certain beliefs.
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diggerdomer
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Psalm 151 is not part of the Catholic canon of Scripture.
po18guy
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Right you are. Mea culpa!
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seth349
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The statement by Jesus that all things are possible is still a very powerful statement, and even though it was spoken to an Apostle, it makes you wonder about all things possible. Of course, I guess that doesn’t mean they can do all things, only that it is possible, like it is possible for me to win the lottery if only I buy a ticket. Otherwise we would have world peace and all be Catholic. Is that correct? Another very popular and powerful statement is:
Mark 11 24: Therefore I say unto you, all things, whatsoever you ask when ye pray, believe that you shall receive; and they shall come unto you.
This statement seems pretty straight-forward, but I’m afraid I can’t make much of the context in which it appears. He was speaking to Peter, but did he mean this for all of us?
Mark 11 24: Therefore I say unto you, all things, whatsoever you ask when ye pray, believe that you shall receive; and they shall come unto you.
This statement seems pretty straight-forward, but I’m afraid I can’t make much of the context in which it appears. He was speaking to Peter, but did he mean this for all of us?
po18guy
Well-known member
The main thrust of Jesus’ teachings to the twelve dealt with their faith or, more specifically, their lack of faith. This teaching instructs Peter, and through Peter, each of us, that we should have faith and not doubt.
Look at Matthew 14:25 and following: With even the faith that he had, Peter was able to walk on water - the only one other than Christ to ever do so. Notice that when Peter doubted, he sank and called to the Lord to save Him. It was his faith that allowed him first to walk on the water, as impossible as that seemed. And it was his doubt that caused him to sink. It was when Peter took his eyes off of Jesus that he began to doubt. However, he was not entirely without faith, so he was able to call on the Lord, in faith that Jesus would save him from sinking, and it was done. Jesus then asked him “Why did you doubt?” Clearly, Peter would not have sunk had he kept his gaze upon, and his faith in Jesus.
As well, Jesus knows that doubts creep in, even though we have faith and begin good things with the best of intentions. Look at the amazing statement that our Lord made to the man whose son was possessed in Mark 9:23: " ‘If you can’?" said Jesus. “Everything is possible for him who believes.” Our Lord absolutely pounded the Apostles and the crowds regarding faith.
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seth349
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In ** Luke 17:5**, did Jesus grant their request? (How do you come up with all of these references?) It seems, rather, that he changes the subject, but that is most likely because I don’t understand the scripture that follows. He does say that if you ask you will receive, and they do appear to be asking. If they who bore witness to his miracles were having trouble, I should think it would be even more difficult for people of this age.
Does Psalms 151 exist somewhere? Just curious since it came up. I didn’t see it in the Protestant Bible either.
po18guy
Well-known member
I use an online concordance in combination with my own bibles.
Jesus does seem to change the point by telling the parable, but He reminded them that faith was their first concern and their duty, since He had chosen them as servants of the Father and each had agreed to accompany Him. After witnessing so many miracles, their faith should have been deeper than it was. Even if they performed many miracles, it was only their duty - they had done nothing “above and beyond the call”.
This is a Psalm that is accepted by our Orthodox brothers in the Eastern Church. As was pointed out, the Catholic and Perotestant canon is 150 Psalms. Here is a link to a bit of info: wapedia.mobi/en/Psalm_151
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