Bible Interpretation and the Catholic Church

[seth349]

Also, when reading Luke 17, I came across this:

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you make of that?

 

[po18guy]

Also, when reading Luke 17, I came across this:

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

What do you make of that?

This was in response to the Pharisees, who were always trying to trick Jesus or catch Him in something whereby they could condemn him. When they discussed the “kingdom”, what they meant was a physical kingdom with a strong human ruler who would restore Israel’s power and shed the oppressive rule of the occupying Romans. They did not understand that Jesus was speaking of the Kingdom of His Father - one that begins in the human heart. He told them to look inside, but they always looked to the outside for a “hero” political leader who would free them.

In Matthew 3:2 and 4:17, Jesus taught that the “Kingdom of Heaven is at hand”, which meant that it was in their presence, available to them - even within them. In Matthew 10:7, He commanded the Apostles to go out and preach the same words to the people.

 

[Crumpy]

We are supposed to rely on the magisterium to interpret scriptures for us. So when you are looking at scripture you are suppsed to use Catholic resources in light of those scripture passages.

The pope and all the bishops of the church constitute the magisterium, which is the ultimate deliberative body.

The Catholic Church as an organization at the Vatican called the Pontifical Biblical Institute which is an organization at the highest level below the magisterium that addresses questions of interpretation (understanding) of Scripture.

I jumped in to comment on this post because it isn’t strictly required to avoid non-Catholic sources. They may have some truth in them and be beneficial, if you can’t find a Catholic source right off.

The amount of time somebody spends answering the OP depends on the question that is at hand. You might find an answer in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the definitive source of Church teaching, but the CCC isn’t strictly meant to be a bible commentary , all self-contained.

There are a lot of threads on which commentaries are readily available. There’s the Ignatius Bible series, the Navarre Bible Commentaries, and the Baker Academic Series – all of which are popular right now. I’m reading the Baker Academic series, but only four volumes (out of a planned 14 or so, on the New Testament) have been published so far. They are really convincing (from a Catholic standpoint) and not that terribly expensive.

You can “jump in” to a lot of information about the Bible at the ewtn.com website. Go to the Document Library and use the search feature to start searching for things that might interest you.

 

[Crumpy]

I use an online concordance in combination with my own bibles.

Jesus does seem to change the point by telling the parable, but He reminded them that faith was their first concern and their duty, since He had chosen them as servants of the Father and each had agreed to accompany Him. After witnessing so many miracles, their faith should have been deeper than it was. Even if they performed many miracles, it was only their duty - they had done nothing “above and beyond the call”.

This is a Psalm that is accepted by our Orthodox brothers in the Eastern Church. As was pointed out, the Catholic and Perotestant canon is 150 Psalms. Here is a link to a bit of info: wapedia.mobi/en/Psalm_151

There are two different numbering systems for the Psalms. So, you get “all” the Psalms in any Catholic bible, but the numbering may simply be different from one Bible to the next.

This situation shows up the fact that the chapters in the Bible as we know them today are translators’ or publishers’ “artifacts” and these divisions into chapters are not in the original text. They were added and fairly standardized to facilitate study and conversation.

The Old Testament is written mainly in Hebrew (if I"m not mistaken). Hebrew is a primitive language. There are no vowels, no punctuation, no indentation or footnotes, That makes it very interesting to realize that what you read in a modern translation of the Bible is a lot MORE than translation. There’s a lot of decisions made as to what the words are, when there are alternate choices for which vowels can be used in the words. So, strictly speaking, when you read the Old Testament in ANY Bible, you are already reading somebody’s interpretation of scripture, right from the get-go.

But, of course, there’s a lot of agreement of what those translations ARE, not much doubt about them. You shouldn’t forget that there still are open questions. This is problematic for Jews and Christians in one instance. There is no certain translation of the word that I will represent as “melakah.” Now, the agreement is to translate that word as “servile work” and the verse is meant to say that we should do no “servile work” on the sabbath. But, REALLY, no on knows what that word is, and what is really prohibited on the Sabbath, in that commandment. There probably aren’t many such examples in the Bible, but this is certainly a BIG ONE – and no modern person really knows for sure what the commandment is.

Aside from the study of Hebrew itself, scholars look to other ancient Middle East languages for words that may be similar and give a hint as to what this word really means.But the question here is still open.

The MOST HOLY NAME OF GOD in the bible is transliterated from the Hebrew as YHWH. The Jews CLAIM that they do not know how to pronounce this word, and they wouldn’t want to either, because the Name is so sacred. The high priest was said to use this name of God only once a year on the Day of Atonement. The priests would teach each other how to say it in whispers in the Temple.

 

[diggerdomer]

There are two different numbering systems for the Psalms. So, you get “all” the Psalms in any Catholic bible, but the numbering may simply be different from one Bible to the next…

Psalm 151 is not just a different numbering, it’s a psalm that is not in Catholic and Protestant Bible canons.

 

[zach_dunn]

Paul was also an Apostle and a real leader as well - got his info and mission direct from Christ - twinc

Yes, Paul was a leader, Peter was the leader whom Christ made His earthly vicar, this position in Christ’s Church was not given to Paul.

 

[seth349]

Jesus does seem to change the point by telling the parable, but He reminded them that faith was their first concern and their duty, since He had chosen them as servants of the Father and each had agreed to accompany Him. After witnessing so many miracles, their faith should have been deeper than it was. Even if they performed many miracles, it was only their duty - they had done nothing “above and beyond the call”.

Faith does seem to be a necessary ingredient for getting things done. I was wondering about Matthew 7:7, Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8 For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

It can’t be that easy. Is faith required for this to happen? Of course, there is one other thing in James 4:3. You ask, and receive not; because you ask amiss: that you may consume it on your concupiscences.

I looked that big word up, and it seems clear enough. That given, could I ask him to heal my brother and expect it to be done? What if it turns out my brother is evil. Would it still be done?

 

[po18guy]

Faith does seem to be a necessary ingredient for getting things done. I was wondering about Matthew 7:7, Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8 For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

Look at Matthew 6 which leads into 7. It is about fasting and prayer, the giving of alms - about the denial of self and about trusting God for and in everything. This sets the tone for Mt 7:7.

It can’t be that easy. Is faith required for this to happen? Of course, there is one other thing in James 4:3. You ask, and receive not; because you ask amiss: that you may consume it on your concupiscences.

Faith, as well as love, is required for everything. God is love, and asks our faith in Him. He is the source of all love that exists, and we have a capacity to love only because we are made in His likeness, which means we, in a limited sense, are like Him. Not just appearance, but also in our substance. The difference is that our sinful nature impedes the flow of love. God’s love flows like light from the sun. It is His nature. Love cones naturally from the Father, while we struggle to love.

That given, could I ask him to heal my brother and expect it to be done? What if it turns out my brother is evil. Would it still be done?

With perfect faith, yes. However, we must trust in God’s will for our lives, and for the lives of others. We live a life of suffering, which is intended to lead us to eternity in God’s presence. Suffering we must embrace, as it has purpose - both for this life and the next. Not all healing that we ask for occurs, as there is a larger plan at work than we can see. Our repentance, our turning from evil often occurs only after we suffer profoundly. If we ask for healing, it may “short circuit” the suffering and healing process. Even though our personal desire for ourselves or others may not be realized, God knows our hearts and will judge us according to our love.

 

[peary1]

I am amazed at the level of knowledge on this site. It seems limitless. Can I expect this everywhere, or did I just get lucky on this thread?

Now, about this power. Apparently it can be passed on from one Apsotle to another as it was passed from Jesus to Judas, but Judas seems to illustrate that even Apostles can go astray. How does this work? Does he lose his power if the sin is great enough?

Also, in regard to the Holy Spirit. Does It ever fill ordinary folk like you and me? Well, I can’t speak for you.

The ‘power’ is the Holy Spirit. Judas did not ‘lose’ anything. He still was bestowed with a proper charism as an Apostle.

Remember that Jesus commissioned the 12 to do the work of God ON EARTH. What was previously God’s Work - to bind and loose, to forgive sins, to heal, to love, etc. is now established on earth through the Church. When you think about it, it’s quite awesome.

 

[seth349]

The ‘power’ is the Holy Spirit. Judas did not ‘lose’ anything. He still was bestowed with a proper charism as an Apostle.

Remember that Jesus commissioned the 12 to do the work of God ON EARTH. What was previously God’s Work - to bind and loose, to forgive sins, to heal, to love, etc. is now established on earth through the Church. When you think about it, it’s quite awesome.

The power given the Apostles hadn’t really dawned on me before. As you have described it, it is awesome.

 

[seth349]

Look at Matthew 6 which leads into 7. It is about fasting and prayer, the giving of alms - about the denial of self and about trusting God for and in everything. This sets the tone for Mt 7:7.

Okay. Thanks. I have to research and mull over all those things you said in this post . . .

 

[po18guy]

The power given the Apostles hadn’t really dawned on me before. As you have described it, it is awesome.

This corresponds exactly with the amount of Jesus’ teaching which was directed only at the Apostles. So much of the power, so much of the authority, so much revelation of the Kingdom, which man had never seen or been a partaker of, was placed in the hands of the Apostles. Then, Jesus sent them forth.

 

[seth349]

This corresponds exactly with the amount of Jesus’ teaching which was directed only at the Apostles. So much of the power, so much of the authority, so much revelation of the Kingdom, which man had never seen or been a partaker of, was placed in the hands of the Apostles. Then, Jesus sent them forth.

And this power, authority and knowledge now resides in the Magisterium, correct?

 

[seth349]

Even though our personal desire for ourselves or others may not be realized, God knows our hearts and will judge us according to our love.

Speaking of judgment, how do you interpret these passages from John 12:

46 I am come a light into the world; that whosoever believeth in me, may not remain in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and keep them not, I do not judge him: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that despiseth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him; the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father who sent me, he gave me commandment what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting. The things therefore that I speak, even as the Father said unto me, so do I speak.

What does he mean by coming not to judge the world, but to save it?

 

[po18guy]

And this power, authority and knowledge now resides in the Magisterium, correct?

The Magisterium is the apostolic teaching authority of the Church, given by Jesus to the twelve. This authority is used to teach the Sacred Apostolic Tradition, as well as interpret and teach scripture. Both Sacred Tradition and inspired scripture is God’s revelation to man, and so, must be taught with the proper authority to teach.

Saint Paul taught to retain these apostolic traditions, whether oral or written:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 (King James Version) “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle”.

As well, he taught that, in addition to apostolic tradition, sacred scripture was also useful:

2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The question for those who claim the bible as sole authority is: what makes some ancient writing scripture and other writing not?

The answer is that the Church decided, through the authority given by Christ, what was scripture and what was not. The bible got its table of contents from somewhere, and that somewhere is the Catholic Church. Many writings were put forth as scripture, but only some passed the tests which the Church used.

 

[po18guy]

I am come a light into the world; that whosoever believeth in me, may not remain in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and keep them not, I do not judge him: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that despiseth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him; the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father who sent me, he gave me commandment what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting. The things therefore that I speak, even as the Father said unto me, so do I speak.

What does he mean by coming not to judge the world, but to save it?

God could have condemned the world, as He did with the flood in Genesis 6 and 7, or by fire as He did with Sodom and Gomorrah as mentioned in Genesis 13 and 14. However, out of love, He chose to send His Son with words of salvation to convert our hearts and thus spare us damnation. The world will not be condemned whole, for Jesus will sit in judgment of us individually.

 

[seth349]

Look at Matthew 6 which leads into 7.

With perfect faith, yes. However, we must trust in God’s will for our lives, and for the lives of others. We live a life of suffering, which is intended to lead us to eternity in God’s presence. Suffering we must embrace, as it has purpose - both for this life and the next. Not all healing that we ask for occurs, as there is a larger plan at work than we can see. Our repentance, our turning from evil often occurs only after we suffer profoundly. If we ask for healing, it may “short circuit” the suffering and healing process. Even though our personal desire for ourselves or others may not be realized, God knows our hearts and will judge us according to our love.

I have to admit to being hung up on his statement that if you ask it will be given.

It seems that when He was asked in person He healed without reservation. He is in our presence now, I presume, in spirit, and so would He not heal as He did then? Or is there a difference. I understand why suffering occurs as we struggle to find the truth. But is it necessary after we have made that discovery? Is there scriptural documentation that dictates suffering as an essential ingredient no matter what? Is suffering the only path to doing God’s will? How do you know that you have not already suffered enough? If you are filled with the Holy Spirit and feel his presence, would you not feel great joy? Can you be filled with the Holy Spirit and still suffer?

Sorry. Meant to ask one question and asked several. Hope you can make sense of it.

 

[seth349]

The world will not be condemned whole, for Jesus will sit in judgment of us individually.

Okay. Yes. That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[seth349]

As well, he taught that, in addition to apostolic tradition, sacred scripture was also useful:

Yes. There is no doubt that the Catholic church is the founder of the Bible. I am beginning to wonder if Luther’s break away from the church was such a good idea.

I read a little about the Magisterium in Wikipedia but am not clear on what apostolic tradition is.

 

[po18guy]

I have to admit to being hung up on his statement that if you ask it will be given.

It seems that when He was asked in person He healed without reservation. He is in our presence now, I presume, in spirit, and so would He not heal as He did then? Or is there a difference. I understand why suffering occurs as we struggle to find the truth. But is it necessary after we have made that discovery? Is there scriptural documentation that dictates suffering as an essential ingredient no matter what? Is suffering the only path to doing God’s will? How do you know that you have not already suffered enough? If you are filled with the Holy Spirit and feel his presence, would you not feel great joy? Can you be filled with the Holy Spirit and still suffer?

Sorry. Meant to ask one question and asked several. Hope you can make sense of it.

Compare the Psalm of David with Christ’s teaching:

Psalm 116:3 The cords of death entangled me, the anguish of the grave came upon me; I was overcome by trouble and sorrow.

John 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

The trouble which overcame King David has itself been overcome by Jesus’ sacrifice. Hope was restored. The book of Job explains the reason behind and the necessity of suffering. Psalm 119 speaks much of suffering and of turning to God in that suffering. The Gospels are filled with Jesus’ predictions of His suffering. And, if God would not spare His only Son suffering unto death, how can sinful man expect to avoid suffering? Jesus promised us suffering, but also hope to look beyond it. Certainly inspired by all of his suffering (Acts 9:16), Saint Paul wrote of the strength which comes from Christ: Philippians 4:13 (King James Version) “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me”.

We certainly suffer even after receiving the Holy Spirit - sometimes especially because of that, as the evil one demands to test us. However, great joy is ours in the presence of the Spirit, as well as in suffering, for our suffering will end, but our joy will be eternal.

Luke 6:22-23 (King James Version) Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Acts 5:40-41 (King James Version) And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

So, strengthened by Christ, we are to rejoice even in suffering - especially in suffering for the name of Christ.