Bible, Mormonism, Great Apostacy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marie5890
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Not at all. Christ gave the teachings in John 6, that He is the Bread of life and the living Bread, as a direct teaching that they would know that He fulfilled the Manna given to the children of Israel in the wilderness. He gave that teaching before the Last Supper. The fact that He is the living Bread and the Bread of life does not relate to the Last Supper in the way your religion has taken the meaning off on a tangent.

The blood of Christ was shed for all mankind, not just for Catholics, nor just for believing Catholics. To remember the atoning grace of Christ is to remember His atoning blood and to be grateful for His having given His life for all of us to live in a state of grace and be redeemed and be resurrected with real bodies in a real resurrection.
Side not# I just pictured you sitting down with the Pope explaining this to him.
Off to the Huntsville Monastary for the weekend…tonight you will be in our prayers
holytrinityabbey.org/store.html

Then I thought about you sitting at the table with the 12 explaining this right after the last supper. Then goping off to the tomb to wait for our Lord to rise bypassing all of the suffering and life risking. Waiting for the joyful part.

Its very protestant, lack of beleif in something that is miracoulouse. Is it a wonder why the miracles over the ocean, and the feeding of the thousands are directly in the Scriptures before Jesus speaks about Holy Communion? What He was to leave us until His return. We can’t explain to you what it means to receice Christ the way we do Parker. Its something you know and you live it. I think you understand this…Faith
We simply have faith that Jesus knows what He is speaking about and we place our trust in Him.
 
A question was asked–"Did the Jews give us the Bible? The answer–no. The Jews had the Hebrew Scriptures–the Torah, the Prophets, and Writings. That would be the old covenant. Catholics ended up writing the books in the new covenant–the gospels, the Apostolic Letters, the Letters to all Christians and the Apocalypse (Revelation). The Bible is both the writings of the old covenant (Old Testament) and that of the new (New Testament), and it was the Catholic Church that sifted through the writings (by the power of the Holy Spirit) and decided which writings were inspired and which ones were to be included in the canon of the Bible. And in the 4th century the canon was closed–no more books were added in the Bible (which is why we don’t see the Didache, written in the 1st century, lost and not found again until much, much later; or the letter of Clement (died about 80 A.D.)–which I think conclusively shows Papal authority; some lost letters of Paul (even though referenced by the Bible’s other letters); the Shepherd of Hermas; etc.)

Another post indicated that some things in the Jewish Scriptures were not included. Yes, we can actually see it in Jude. Jude references the Apocalpse of Moses in verse 9, yet that book does not exist in the Canon of the Old Testament. It was probably lost in history. (Good news though, it seems that the archeological finds at the Dead Sea has shown that what we have in our present Bibles matches what the ancient texts have. More good news, many of the “found” writings–that are unable to be included in the Bible–are, in fact, included in the writings of the early Church Fathers and there are books for us to read them.)

As to the book of Revelation showing that John knew of some “conspirancy theory” where evil people would purposely try to change his words, well no, the simpler explanation is the obvious–John is simply saying “don’t change my words in this vision–this book”.
 
The thread is about the Mormons, no Jews. Look at post #1. I was replying to that. I brought up the Jews in order to show the inconsistency of the Catholic argument. The Catholic argument that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, therefore Mormons (and others) who believe in the Apostasy of the early Christian Church have no right to use it, would be like the Jews arguing that they gave the world the Old Testament, therefore the Christians who believe the Jewish religion is not the true religion have no right to use it.

That is beside the point. Mormons also believe that the early Christianity apostatized.
The argument isn’t about “right of use”, it is about accepting Catholic authority which LDS assert was gone long before the Catholic Church, lead by the Holy Spirit, compiled the New Testament.
 
(1) Questioning that if the apostasy claims authority was stripped from the world, did the CC have the authority to compile the Bible in the first place? (2) Does the CC lacking authority invalidate in anyway the compilation of the Bible ??..(3) Or the compilation of the Bible is it completely irrelevant to whether or not the CC had authority?
Marie5890,
I hope I can make a distinction that may in some way make sense to you in answer to your questions.

(1) If someone desires to do something good, will God let them do it? (Answer: yes)

Does that mean He has given them His authority to do it? (Answer: “yes” by virtue of Him letting them do the good thing they desire to do, and even providing the inspiration to the extent that they ask for inspiration in doing the thing they have set out to do; but “no” if the person thinks that by doing the good thing that such an act has made them a special emissary of God, for it has not. Every good thing that men do, does not make them an emissary directly from God, but they are to be commended for the good thing they did, and then keep on keeping on.)

(2) The Bible compilation began with words inspired by God and written down and then compiled. Any invalidation would be in the case of the words being transcribed or translated into a meaning not intended by the originators of the words–the prophets and apostles and Luke and Christ. As long as the transcriptions and translations were true to the meaning intended by the originators of the words, they would be “validated” and should be loved as such–the pure word of God.

(3) Yes. They are separate issues altogether.

Peace to you always. Have a great weekend, and a joyful upcoming Sunday.🙂
 
So according to the logic of the Catholics here, we have no right to use the Old Testament unless by permission from the Jews, or unless we become Jews!
The more interesting premise is that catholics who have the old testament also, seem not to realize that the old testament had been corrupted at least according to early catholic fathers. And of course, it is assumed that the new testament has been corrupted also since epistles mentioned in the new testament seem to be missing.

But it is still good enough for god to use to bring human beings closer to him. And of course the lds have the book of mormon as another testament of christ.
 
The argument isn’t about “right of use”, it is about accepting Catholic authority which LDS assert was gone long before the Catholic Church, lead by the Holy Spirit, compiled the New Testament.
I don’t think so at all. The early catholic fathers claimed that the bible had been corrupted but they still used it. Likewise, we can see from the missing epistles that the new testament has also been corrupted. But god can still consider the bible useful to bring people closer to him. In other words, for christians, it is the only book in town. Now of course, the mormons not only have the bible but also other scriptures to bring them closer to god.

fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_Corruption_of_Scripture_in_the_Second_Century.html

Accusations of Corruption
If comparison between the beginning of the second century and its end shows that scripture has changed, a closer look at the Christian authors of the second century shows that they were aware of this change. Peter noted that the process of corruption had started in apostolic times:

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16).

The most sacred teachings of Jesus were not committed to writing (3 John 13-14) but reserved for a close few.21 Indicative of this are the fifty-three parables of Jesus preserved in the Gospels, of which only three have interpretations, all of the interpretations being given behind closed doors to a chosen few.22 Those so privileged to receive this hidden treasure of knowledge prized it most highly23 but shared it with few if any others.24 The situation is most poignantly explained by one of John’s disciples, Ignatius of Antioch (d. ca. 110)25 as he was lead off to his death:

Could I not write you the celestial matters? But I fear lest I might set harm before you, since you are but babes; so pardon me, lest, if you are unable to make room, you be suffocated; for although I am bound and am able to comprehend the celestial matters and the angelic orders and the principle revelations,26 seen and unseen, nonetheless I am not yet a disciple.27

Justin Martyr, a philosopher who lived in the middle of the second century, leveled the following accusation against the Jews: “from the ninety-fifth (ninety-sixth) Psalm they have taken away this short saying of the words of David: ‘From the wood.’ For when the passage said, ‘Tell ye among the nations, the Lord hath reigned from the wood,’ they have left, ‘Tell ye among the nations, the Lord hath reigned.’”,28 Justin’s antagonist, Trypho downplayed the accusation by saying "Whether [or not] the rulers of the people have erased any portion of the Scriptures, as you affirm, God knows; but it seems incredible."29

Clement of Alexandria (ca. 150-215) describes the corruption of the gospel of Mark by Carpocrates:

Now then, Mark during Peter’s stay in Rome wrote down the acts of the Lord, nevertheless not telling all, nor even hinting at the sacred ones (tas mystikas), but selecting those which he thought most useful for the growth of the investigators’ faith. When Peter was martyred, Mark came to Alexandria; polishing both his own and Peter’s notes, from which by transferring into his first book those things appropriate for those progressing in the testimony (gn_sis), he compiled a more spiritual gospel for the use of those being perfected (t_n teleioumen_n). In no way, however, did he betray those things not discussed, nor did he write down the initiatory teaching (hierophantik_n didaskalian)30of the Lord. But adding to the previously written acts yet others, he still added certain sayings thereto, the explanation of which would be capable of initiating (mystag_g_sein) their hearers into the holy of holies (adytan) of the truth veiled seven times. Wherefore he prepared it thus-neither corruptly nor unprecautiously-so I deem it. And when he died he left his compilation at the church which is in Alexandria, where it is kept very safe and secure to this day, being read only to those who are initiated into the great mysteries (taus myaumenous ta megala myst_ria).

But Carpocrates who was taught by the defiled demons who continually plot destruction for the children of men, having even used the arts of deception, thus enslaved a certain elder of the church in Alexandria so that he prepared a copy of the secret gospel (tou mystikou euangeliou). And he explained it according to his own blasphemous and carnal thought. But still he defiled it by mixing into the immaculate and holy words the most abominable lies. From this tincture he extracted the Carpocratian doctrine.31

Irenaeus claims that the Valentinians changed the scriptures "by transferring passages, and dressing them up anew, and making one thing out of another."32 Irenaeus notes that among some biblical manuscripts circulating in his day, the number of the beast in Revelations was not 666 but 616.33 Irenaeus reveals that accusations of corruption of scripture were also applied to the orthodox church as well, for the so-called heretics "turn round and accuse these same Scriptures, as if they were not correct."34
 
And to continue from my link:

Methods of Corruption
We learn about some of the types of changes made in the Christian texts because, ironically, they are clearly enumerated by the very people responsible for preserving them. For example Rufinus (fourth century) says of the earlier Christian texts he is copying: Wherever, therefore, we have found in his [in this case Origen’s] books anything contrary to that which was piously established by him about the Trinity in other places, either we have omitted it as corrupt and interpolated, or edited it according to that pattern that we often find asserted by himself. If, however, speaking to the trained and learned, he writes obscurely because he desires to briefly pass over something, we, to make the passage plainer, have added those things that we have read on the same subject openly in his other books….All who shall copy or read this…shall neither add anything to this writing, nor remove anything, nor insert anything, nor change anything.

In this Rufinus simultaneously and almost hypocritically pleads that others not do to him what he has done to them. Rufinus is explicitly following the example of his predecessors, specifically the example of Macarius “who when he translated over seventy works of Origen, which are called homilies and also several of his writings on the apostle into Latin in which are found several offensive passages, therefore he removed or cleaned up all of these when he translated, so that a Latin reader would find nothing in them that disagrees with our belief. This, therefore, we follow even if we are not so eloquent, nevertheless as much as we can, by the same rules, watching to be sure not to reveal those passages in the books of Origen that disagree and contradict with himself.” Deleting, altering, and even adding to works have been problems in antiquity, in the Renaissance, and even in the present day. But other types of corruptions also affect the text. One is the process by which the texts are reinterpreted in a non-literal or allegorical framework. Another is the changing of the meanings of words, such as occurred during the second sophistic period. Between the time of writing the New Testament and the end of the second century, the meanings of several of the words changed. Examples included the change of the principle meanings of pistis from “collateral, guarantee” to "belief, of homologein from “to agree to terms, accept an agreement, enter into a legal contract, promise” to “to confess;” of myst_rion from “(initation) rite” to “secret,” Because the New Testament is usually read with meanings of the second sophistic period and later-meanings which have often changed-the understanding of the text can be drastically changed… All of the methods of changing the text that we have just discussed occur in the second century.

Addition is also a textual corruption, though less frequent than deletion: Tertullian discusses entire forged “writings, which wrongly go under Paul’s name” and which circulated in his day.

Irenaeus accuses Valentinus of acting much like modern biblical critics and dividing "the prophecies [into different classes], maintaining that one portion was uttered by the mother, a second by her seed, and a third by the Demiurge.

“They gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures; and to use a common proverb, they strive to weave ropes of sand, while they endeavour to adapt with an air of probability to their own peculiar assertions the parables of the Lord, the sayings of the prophets, and the words of the apostles, in order that their scheme may not seem altogether without support. In doing so, however, they disregard the order and the connection of the Scriptures, and so far as in them lies, dismember and destroy the truth. By transferring passages, and dressing them up anew, and making one thing out of another, they succeed in deluding many through their wicked art in adapting the oracles of the Lord to their opinions.”

Motivations for Manipulating the Text
What motives did second century individuals and groups have to change scripture? Clement of Rome wrote his epistle at the beginning of the second century at the request of leaders in Corinth to settle a dispute they were having. Clement accuses individuals at Corinth of “pride and sedition” and as setting themselves up as “leaders” and usurping the authority that was not theirs. Toward the end of the second century, Clement of Alexandria notes that the Carpocratians changed scripture to sanction their own homosexual and other immoral practices. Irenaeus claims that the Tertullian says that “writings which wrongly go under Paul’s name” were forged by a presbyter in Asia to give “a license for women’s teaching and baptizing.” Changes in the texts and the motivations to alter the text of scriptures both canonical and non-canonical, in general, match those Nephi gave:

After the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book (1 Nephi 13:28).

Behold the gold, and the silver and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church (1 Nephi 13:8).

While not all second century Christians were consumed by these desires, some clearly were.

fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_Corruption_of_Scripture_in_the_Second_Century.html

In this case the great abominable church could be considered the people who were changing scripture to fit their needs and not the catholic church. And this is where Bruce R. McConkie made his mistake and of course, he was scolded for it. The abominable church are all those institutions and people which lead people from god.
 
To be fair, Mormons do not accept the Scriptures handed down to us by the Church. Joseph Smith produced his own “translation” of the King James Version which is significantly different from the Bibles found outside of Mormonism. Their view of our scripture is that it is “correct in so far as it is correctly translated.” Though I think the KJV is the “official” version, the KJV Bibles published by the CoJCoLDS centered in Salt Lake City contains many of Joseph Smith’s changes in footnotes or appendixes. I believe the RLDS use the JST as their official Bible text. If you would like to check out the Joseph Smith Translation for free and without ordering the free copy from the CoJCoLDS (which is typically delivered by a pair of friendly young men) the SWORD Project bible study software has it available for download.
crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Cults

peace
The Old Testament writings were preserving by the Jews until about the second century AD when they began to reject the Septuagint. Christians held onto the Septuagint which is the basis for the Old Testament canon established by the Catholic Church. Protestants rejected the Septuagint in the 16th century for theological reasons.

There are three ways in which the Catholic Church created the New Testament. One was the people who wrote it down were Catholic. Two is by preserving the actual writings of the early Church and the third is by deciding which writings should be included in the New Testament. The Table of Contents of the New Testament is Catholic Tradition adopted by the Mormon Church.
 
Marie5890,
I hope I can make a distinction that may in some way make sense to you in answer to your questions.

(1) If someone desires to do something good, will God let them do it? (Answer: yes)

Does that mean He has given them His authority to do it? (Answer: “yes” by virtue of Him letting them do the good thing they desire to do, and even providing the inspiration to the extent that they ask for inspiration in doing the thing they have set out to do; but “no” if the person thinks that by doing the good thing that such an act has made them a special emissary of God, for it has not. Every good thing that men do, does not make them an emissary directly from God, but they are to be commended for the good thing they did, and then keep on keeping on.)

(2) The Bible compilation began with words inspired by God and written down and then compiled. Any invalidation would be in the case of the words being transcribed or translated into a meaning not intended by the originators of the words–the prophets and apostles and Luke and Christ. As long as the transcriptions and translations were true to the meaning intended by the originators of the words, they would be “validated” and should be loved as such–the pure word of God.

(3) Yes. They are separate issues altogether.

Peace to you always. Have a great weekend, and a joyful upcoming Sunday.🙂
In other words, In your POV, God didnt require the Catholic church to have His authority to compile the Bible.

That He let unauthorized men put together His word.

Got it.
 
In other words, In your POV, God didnt require the Catholic church to have His authority to compile the Bible.

That He let unauthorized men put together His word.

Got it.
Yes, and it was in accordance with His divine purposes and the Bible going forth in the world is in accordance with His purposes and a totally good thing.
 
The more interesting premise is that catholics who have the old testament also, seem not to realize that the old testament had been corrupted at least according to early catholic fathers. And of course, it is assumed that the new testament has been corrupted also since epistles mentioned in the new testament seem to be missing.

But it is still good enough for god to use to bring human beings closer to him. And of course the lds have the book of mormon as another testament of christ.
Really, you are just making stuff up. No Catholic has ever taught or believed Jewish scriptures had become corrupt. That is a purely mormon belief.
 
The Old Testament writings were preserving by the Jews until about the second century AD when they began to reject the Septuagint. Christians held onto the Septuagint which is the basis for the Old Testament canon established by the Catholic Church. Protestants rejected the Septuagint in the 16th century for theological reasons.

There are three ways in which the Catholic Church created the New Testament. One was the people who wrote it down were Catholic. Two is by preserving the actual writings of the early Church and the third is by deciding which writings should be included in the New Testament. The Table of Contents of the New Testament is Catholic Tradition adopted by the Mormon Church.
I don’t think this is what I was talking about in my post which you replied to, but I agree.

We have the old testament because Hebrew and Jewish scribes meticulously passed its books down through the centuries preceding Christ’s coming, careful to avoid letting any transcription errors find their way into the text. A single mistake, even a misplaced “jot or tittle” would necessitate throwing the entire page on the trash heap.

After Christ’s resurrection, the Catholic Church collected and preserved the gospels and letters from the apostles, and established the Tradition of the canon of scriptures. I’m unaware of any Christian church who’s bible contains books not found in the canon, though some do use a truncated form.

The LDS use the truncated form, like many protestant denominations, for their old and new testament tables of contents. The contents of those books, however, in the most authoritative bible for Mormons, the “inspired”/“revealed” Joseph Smith Translation, has additions and omissions not found in any manuscript, not even those found in the trash heaps of the scribes. The table of contents is not the scriptures. Mormons reject the scriptures used by every Christian church which does not rely on the revelations of their prophet. They will try to brush this off saying they accept them “insofar as they are correctly translated.”

The truth is it is not really an issue of translation, but of transmission. There is just no way you can translate the words in any ancient manuscript of the canonical books and come up with the JST. You can only justify the additions and omissions by revelation.

peace,
MyzTek
 
I’m unaware of any Christian church who’s bible contains books not found in the canon, though some do use a truncated form.
The Eastern Orthodox (and perhaps the Eastern Catholics in following Orthodox practice) use the entire Septuagint, save one book I believe, which includes using 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, 1 Esdras, Odes, and Psalm 151, which are excluded from the Western canon. The Ethiopian Orthodox have even more books than this, outside of the Septuagint canon, in their own [Narrower and Broader] canon.
The truth is it is not really an issue of translation, but of transmission. There is just no way you can translate the words in any ancient manuscript of the canonical books and come up with the JST. You can only justify the additions and omissions by revelation.
peace,
MyzTek
Mormons agree from what I"ve seen.
 
The Eastern Orthodox (and perhaps the Eastern Catholics in following Orthodox practice) use the entire Septuagint, save one book I believe, which includes using 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, 1 Esdras, Odes, and Psalm 151, which are excluded from the Western canon. The Ethiopian Orthodox have even more books than this, outside of the Septuagint canon, in their own [Narrower and Broader] canon.

Thanks for this info, I was unaware of this fact. 🙂

peace
 
Thanks for this info, I was unaware of this fact. 🙂

peace
No problem. I think what’s important is that they use at least the Western canon (since their larger canons include all of the books of the Trent canon). This is how Eastern Catholics view this (according to a few on this forum).
 
Really, you are just making stuff up. No Catholic has ever taught or believed Jewish scriptures had become corrupt. That is a purely mormon belief.
Well, I guess Justine the martyr must have been mistaken. You can read the quotations from the link that I posted.
 
I don’t think this is what I was talking about in my post which you replied to, but I agree.

We have the old testament because Hebrew and Jewish scribes meticulously passed its books down through the centuries preceding Christ’s coming, careful to avoid letting any transcription errors find their way into the text. A single mistake, even a misplaced “jot or tittle” would necessitate throwing the entire page on the trash heap.

After Christ’s resurrection, the Catholic Church collected and preserved the gospels and letters from the apostles, and established the Tradition of the canon of scriptures. I’m unaware of any Christian church who’s bible contains books not found in the canon, though some do use a truncated form.

peace,
MyzTek
But the jews were prone to omit references to Christ in the old testament. Also, you make it all sound so peaceful. The second century was hardly a peaceful decade when it came to scripture and the bible. Much was being purged and omitted as my link proves. And the early church fathers were in the mix that is for sure. It was not a peaceful century for the christian religion.
 
But the jews were prone to omit references to Christ in the old testament.
The Jews were prone to omit Christ in the Old Testament? You do know that they were looking forward to the Messiah (the Annointed), don’t you? And you do know that the Old Testament was written before Jesus was born? (The New Testament is about the New Covenant that Jesus the Christ–meaning the Annointed-- inaugarated.) Why would His name be in the Old Testament?
Also, you make it all sound so peaceful. The second century was hardly a peaceful decade
Well, that’s correct. The early Church fathers were commanded by Jesus to guard the Faith from “itching” ears–from heretics such as the gnostic teachers like Simon Magus, Marcion, Valentinus, Basilides and Mani, against the heresies of Marcionism, Montanism, Donatism, Sabellianism, Manischeanism, (and later the heresies of Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophystism, Monothelitism and Pelagianism.) The Church protected what Jesus taught with councils (the Council of Jerusalem is even in the Bible). And as the book, The Fathers of the Church–An Introduction to the First Christian Teachers indicates, in the second century, the African lawyer Tertullian confronted heretics as poachers on his family’s estate, trespassers who threatnened his patrimony: “Who are you…Marcion, by what right do you chop my wood? By whose permission, Valentinus, are you diverting my streams? By what power, Apelles, are you removing my landmarks? This is my property…I hold sure title-deeds from the original owners themselves, to whom the estate belonged. I am the heir of the Apostles.” No the second century was hardly a peaceful decade. However, we are sure that the Early Church Fathers protected the Church at every turn (Of course, they had the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the promise of Jesus that His Church would not fail and He would be with her), and they were hardly Mormon.
 
Well, I guess Justine the martyr must have been mistaken. You can read the quotations from the link that I posted.
Dialogue with Trypho by Justin Martyr:
Justin: But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying; but since I am aware that this is denied by all of your nation, I do not address myself to these points, but I proceed to carry on my discussions by means of those passages which are still admitted by you. For you assent to those which I have brought before your attention, except that you contradict the statement, ‘Behold, the virgin shall conceive,’ and say it ought to be read, ‘Behold, the young woman shall conceive.’ And I promised to prove that the prophecy referred, not, as you were taught, to Hezekiah, but to this Christ of mine: and now I shall go to the proof.

Trypho: We ask you first of all to tell us some of the Scriptures which you allege have been completely cancelled.

Justin: I shall do as you please. From the statements, then, which Esdras made in reference to the law of the passover, they have taken away the following: ‘And Esdras said to the people, This passover is our Saviour and our refuge. And if you have understood, and your heart has taken it in, that we shall humble Him on a standard, and thereafter hope in Him, then this place shall not be forsaken for ever, says the God of hosts. But if you will not believe Him, and will not listen to His declaration, you shall be a laughing-stock to the nations.’ And from the sayings of Jeremiah they have cut out the following: ‘I [was] like a lamb that is brought to the slaughter: they devised a device against me, saying, Come, let us lay on wood on His bread, and let us blot Him out from the land of the living; and His name shall no more be remembered.’ And since this passage from the sayings of Jeremiah is still written in some copies [of the Scriptures] in the synagogues of the Jews (for it is only a short time since they were cut out), and since from these words it is demonstrated that the Jews deliberated about the Christ Himself, to crucify and put Him to death, He Himself is both declared to be led as a sheep to the slaughter, as was predicted by Isaiah, and is here represented as a harmless lamb; but being in a difficulty about them, they give themselves over to blasphemy. And again, from the sayings of the same Jeremiah these have been cut out: ‘The Lord God remembered His dead people of Israel who lay in the graves; and He descended to preach to them His own salvation.’
Justin Martyr is saying the Jews were rejecting the Septuagint canon. Which the Jews were doing at the time Justin wrote the dialogue. Justin is talking about current events. The Protestants rejected the Septuagint 1400 years later and the Mormons followed the Protestants. If you want to believe the Jewish rejection of the Septuagint is a corruption, then the bible the Mormons use is corrupt. The Catholic Church still uses the Septuagint.
 
Justin Martyr is saying the Jews were rejecting the Septuagint canon. Which the Jews were doing at the time Justin wrote the dialogue. Justin is talking about current events. The Protestants rejected the Septuagint 1400 years later and the Mormons followed the Protestants. If you want to believe the Jewish rejection of the Septuagint is a corruption, then the bible the Mormons use is corrupt. The Catholic Church still uses the Septuagint.
Yes, and mormons should stop using any translation but the original Hebrew, as that is one of the “problems” the Jews had at the time with the Septuagint. They believed Jerusalem was destroyed as punishment and one those things they were being punished for is translating Hebrew scripture into Greek. note to mormons: there is strong evidence that the NT writers were using the Septuagint. If the books of the Septuagint were good enough for them. They are good enough for us. It is you that have deviated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top