Bible - Qur'an Comparison

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy, do you know for a fact which books of the Bible were included in what Muslims call “the Torah”, the “Psalms” and the “Injeel”? If inJESUS or anybody else has the answer, I will welcome it from them as well…

To start with, the Tawrat, the Zabuur, and the Injeel (or as you know them, Torah, Psalms, and Gospel) are not “books” of the Bible, nor necessarily do they include books from the Bible. Muslims believe that they are revelation from God.

Typically the Psalms is a single book, yes? The textbook definition of the Torah includes the first five books of the Bible–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Their names aren’t important in Islam. Just that it was a revealed from God Almighty. In the case of the Injeel (i.e., Gospel) this is what was revealed to Jesus–not what might have been written down after his life.

The point isn’t really what appears in the Bible–not in Islam. Just that messages were revealed from God, with the same message of Islam–worship one God and don’t associate partners with Him in worship, to live righteously, and repent for sin.

 

[Angelos]

Sister Amy, do you know for a fact which books of the Bible were included in what Muslims call “the Torah”, the “Psalms” and the “Injeel”? If inJESUS or anybody else has the answer, I will welcome it from them as well…

The fact is that Muslims do not know the answer since the Koran has some verses that overtly contradict the conventional dogma taught by Muslim scholars. For instance, Muslim scholars claim that Koran is the only divine revelation preserved by Allah as well as it is the only book that is miraculous in form and content! They thus distinguish the Islamic scripture from all the former revelations. However, there is a verse in the Koran that debunks this tenet:

2: 136. Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

The Muslims apparently pervert the meaning of this verse when they say they believe that the other prophets were given revelation before the Koran. The verse asks them to believe what was revealed to others - thus, in their Scripture - not only in the concept of revelation. More, the verse quoted above opposes people making discriminating judgments about the former revelations: All books are preserved by Allah and all are miraculous in the same way.

Besides, nowehere in the Koran can we read a verse distinguishing the former revelation from the Jewish and Christian scripture of the time! Actually, the Koran refers to the NT when it asks Christians to use it as a guide:

5: 47. Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

The Koran never endorses the Islamic concept of biblical distortion, but it warns Muslims against some people who only verbally distort the Scripture as a result of their dishonesty. These supposed verbal modifications do not replace the original Scripture though:

3: 78. And lo! there is a party of them who **distort **the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say: It is from Allah, when it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.

Finally, the Koran teaches that the revelation it confirms is but the Scripture Jews and Christians have and read at Mohammad’s time:

2: 91. And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which Allah hath revealed, they say: We believe in that which was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that which they possess.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Quick note in reply to Angelos:

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah Angelos quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, Angelos condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

 

[AgnosTheist]

When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

• does it confirm that a message was sent?

or

• did it confirm the message itself?

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

Dont you know why Israelis want to bomb the Dome of the Rock? Tell me.

(or re-acquire the land where the Dome is built on. the land that muslims have stolen)

 

[Sister_Amy]

• does it confirm that a message was sent?

or

• did it confirm the message itself?

What’s the difference? It confirms that God revealed a message, and to whom.

Dont you know why Israelis want to bomb the Dome of the Rock? Tell me.

No I don’t. Why does it matter?

(or re-acquire the land where the Dome is built on. the land that muslims have stolen)

Stolen? Does land belong to people? Don’t talk to me about stolen land in Palestine when homes are being demolished and Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land.

The reason that Masjid al-Aqsa (which is NOT the Dome of the Rock by the way) is significant in Islam is BECAUSE that’s where the Temple was. Didn’t you know that?

 

[Lapell]

To start with, the Tawrat, the Zabuur, and the Injeel (or as you know them, Torah, Psalms, and Gospel) are not “books” of the Bible, nor necessarily do they include books from the Bible. Muslims believe that they are revelation from God.

Typically the Psalms is a single book, yes? The textbook definition of the Torah includes the first five books of the Bible–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Their names aren’t important in Islam. Just that it was a revealed from God Almighty. In the case of the Injeel (i.e., Gospel) this is what was revealed to Jesus–not what might have been written down after his life.

The point isn’t really what appears in the Bible–not in Islam. Just that messages were revealed from God, with the same message of Islam–worship one God and don’t associate partners with Him in worship, to live righteously, and repent for sin.

And it would not come to the mind of most Muslims to look into the Bible, at least the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospels, to see for themselves that what Muhammad says to be in those books are or are not there?

 

[Lapell]

What’s the difference? It confirms that God revealed a message, and to whom.

No I don’t. Why does it matter?

Stolen? Does land belong to people? Don’t talk to me about stolen land in Palestine when homes are being demolished and Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land.

The reason that Masjid al-Aqsa (which is NOT the Dome of the Rock by the way) is significant in Islam is BECAUSE that’s where the Temple was. Didn’t you know that?

And just why is the place where the Temple of Jerusalem so important to the Muslims when I thought their highest place of pilgrimage should be Mekka?

 

[AgnosTheist]

It confirms that God revealed a message, and to whom.

ok

No I don’t. Why does it matter?

They wish to destroy it so they can rebuild their Temple. Now the question is, why do they want to rebuild the Temple. Do you have any idea?

 

[Lapell]

Sister Amy, do you know for a fact which books of the Bible were included in what Muslims call “the Torah”, the “Psalms” and the “Injeel”? If inJESUS or anybody else has the answer, I will welcome it from them as well…

My question came because of something inJESUS said in a previous post… Do you disagree with what he said then, sister Amy?

 

[Lapell]

Stolen? Does land belong to people?

Nice thought! Until someone expells you from a specific place or is expelled by you from there… (Here, “you” is used not specifically about yourself, sister Amy, but it’s the way the word is used sometimes, meaning “one”, “somebody”)

 

[inJESUS]

The textbook definition of the Torah includes the first five books of the Bible–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

what do you base your answer on? Quran? hadith? or personal opinion based on neither?

what do you understand from this hadith:

" 'Ata b. Yasar told that he met Abdallah b. Amr b. al-‘As and asked him to inform him of the description of God’s messenger given in the Torah. He agreed, swearing by God that he was certainly described** in the Torah **by part of the description of him given in the Qur’an (Al-Azb 33:45) when it says, O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good tidings, and a warner, and a guard for the common people.' (Then continuing from the Torah-Old Testament) You are my servant and my messenger; I have called you the one who trusts, not harsh or rough, nor loud-voiced in the streets. He will not repulse evil with evil, but will pardon and forgive, and God will not take him till He uses him to straighten the crooked creed so that people may say there is no god but God, and opens thereby blind eyes, deaf ears and hardened hearts.’ "

Bukhari transmitted it, and Darimi also gives something to the same effect on the authority of `Ata’ who gave as his authority Ibn Salam.

This TORAH passage is found in:

Here is My servant, whom I uphold,
My chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put My Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.
He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets
A bruised reed will he not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out…
I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness…
I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people…
to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison, and
to release from the dungeon those who are in darkness."
Isaiah 42

the Torah mesage is found in Isaiah, not in any of Moses’ books.

In the case of the Injeel (i.e., Gospel) this is what was revealed to Jesus–not what might have been written down after his life.

 

[Angelos]

Quick note in reply to Angelos:

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah Angelos quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

2: 136 commands the Muslims of Mohammad’s time to believe in the Jewish and Christian Scripture since it wants Muslims to believe what was revealed to the prophets. If the former revelations had been distorted - as you claim -, such a commandment would make no sense since it would be impossible for Muslims to reach the former revelations. What the verse asks Muslims to do is NOT to believe in the concept of revelation, but IN the revelation ITSELF, which was apparently available at that time for Muslims to believe!

2: 91 And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which Allah hath revealed, they say: We believe in that which was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that which they possess. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Why then slew ye the prophets of Allah aforetime, if ye are (indeed) believers ?

Anyone who can understand English will see that this verse claims to confirm what Jews HAVE - as the phrase “which they POSSESS” indicates - at Mohammad’s time rather than an unavailable or lost revelation due to supposed corruption. It is even absurd to think that the Koran confirms a ghost-like book Jews no more possess since the Koran asks Jews and Christians to believe in the Islamic Scripture primarily because Muslims believe in the Jewish and Christian Scripture as the verse clearly states. In other words, Mohammad tells Jews/Christians of his time: We believe in your Scripture, why don’t you do the same?

Sister Amy, do you really believe that Jews and Christians are asked to believe that Mohammad was revealed whilst they are not asked to believe in the Koran?

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, Angelos condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

Angelos condemning YOU Muslims who distort a verse in the Koran to falsely claim that verbal distortion is the same as the conventional Islamic charges of biblical corruption.

3: 78. And lo! there is a party of them who distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture. And they say: It is from Allah, when it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.

This verse is talking about VERBAL distortion of the Torah by SOME Jews! Such distortion is practiced by Muslims on the Koran when punctuation and/or context are disregarded in recitation.

Sister Amy, are you sure you can understand English? If you have difficulties, I shall try to help you about it.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

You are suddenly becoming off-topic again!

Sure, Allah asking Christians to judge by the Gospel, which you claim to be perverted and corrupted! You need to inform Allah of the so-called biblical distortion before writing any more posts here.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.

 

[inJESUS]

Quick note in reply to Angelos:

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed

 

[Angelos]

We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

 

[Booklover]

Quick note in reply to Angelos:

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah Angelos quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, Angelos condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

What was revealed? Or just your wishful thinking? In all your posts you have proven nothing! You’ve claimed that the Quran stands alone and keep having to assert the Bible is corrupted since the Quran brought a contradictory “message” that fits nowhere.

You’ve also stated that the Quran has corrected previous revelations but not what those corrections are. You’ve used a lot of circular reasoning and here’s more proof of it:

How do you know the Quran is the word of God?
Because Muslims believe it is!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, the poster condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

 

[Verisimilitude]

…what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

Your excuse of accepting that something was revealed, but not what was revealed and calling it all truth as long as it is your version of truth because Mohammed told you so is like saying the apple in your hand is an orange and all oranges are apples as long as you don’t bite into it but trust that it is an apple because the orange grower told you so.

Don’t be afraid to bite into it, Amy. It is an apple, not an orange. The orange grower lied to you to make a prophet.

 

[Sister_Amy]

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, the poster condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

 

[Verisimilitude]

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136,…

Bolded repetitions of the same thing does not make it true. What is clear is your inability to reason.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, the poster condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

The original poster you said this too was abundantly clear. Will you answer why you praise what demons praise?

72:1 Say (O Muhammad SAW): "It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinns listened (to this Quran). They said: Verily! We have heard a wonderful Recital (this Quran)!

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

As a person of the Gospel I have judged what allah/mohammed of the koran has revealed and it is not Truth. The Jinn/demons praise it as wonderfull and that should tell you something. Do you know how demons reacted to real Truth?

Matthew 8:29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Will you tell me not all jinn are evil?
And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire.
( سورة الحجر , Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #27)

And if We had so willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me concerning evildoers took effect: that I will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together.
( سورة السجدة , As-Sajda, Chapter #32, Verse #13)

They will say: Be Thou Glorified. Thou (alone) art our Guardian, not them! Nay, but they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them.
( سورة سبأ , Saba, Chapter #34, Verse #41)

And We assigned them comrades (in the world), who made their present and their past fairseeming unto them. And the Word concerning nations of the jinn and humankind who passed away before them hath effect for them. Lo! they were ever losers.
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #25)

The quran is full of this stuff. The bible is not.

 

[Angelos]

As is abundantly clear in aya 2:136, what Muslims believe in is what was revealed–and only that. Not what might exist today, but what was revealed. The ayah quoted is proof of that. When the Qur’an says it confirms previous scripture (2;91), what it means is it confirms that they were revealed, not any preservation.

And regarding the other ayah 3:78, the poster condemns himself for distorting the scripture.

In 5:47, what the Qur’an is saying is for Christians and Jews to judge by the Law and the Gospel. Christians and Jews often prefer not to do that, however. They don’t like to maintain all those old laws (though there are a minority that do) and instead they raise secular laws above their own scripture from God.

There is a foul smell here: because of someone’s stale posts?
Sister Amy, I LOVE you, you are the joy of this forum

Unlike you - who has forgotten to update her messages -, here am I quoting more verses from your Koran to illustrate how you Muslims’ false claims about the Bible are rebutted by your own scrpiture

32: 23-24. We verily gave Moses the Scripture; so be not ye in doubt of his receiving it; and We appointed it a guidance for the Children of Israel. And when they became steadfast and believed firmly in Our revelations, We appointed from among them leaders who guided by Our command.

35: 31-32. As for that which We inspire in thee of the Scripture, it is the Truth confirming that which was (revealed) before it. Lo! Allah is indeed Observer, Seer of His slaves. Then We gave the Scripture as inheritance unto those whom We elected of Our bondmen.

40: 53-54. And We verily gave Moses the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture, a guide and a reminder for men of understanding.

35: 29. Lo! those who read the Scripture of Allah, and establish worship, and spend of that which We have bestowed on them secretly and openly, they look forward to imperishable gain.

Finally, a very interesting verse about the revelation given to Jews:

6: 91. And they measure not the power of Allah its true measure when they say: Allah hath naught revealed unto a human being. Say (unto the Jews who speak thus): Who revealed the Book which Moses brought, a light and guidance for mankind, which ye have put on parchments which ye show, but ye hide much (thereof), and (by which) ye were taught that which ye knew not yourselves nor (did) your fathers (know it) ? Say: Allah. Then leave them to their play of cavilling.

Here it is Allah who contends that the Scripture Jews possess is the revelation given to Moses. However, Jews are said to deny it! Sister Amy, in the light of this verse, may I ask you a personal question? (You do not have to respond) Are you Jewish?

Peace,
ANgelos N.B.