Bible study Revelation All are welcome

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Odell

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I know Church Militant is going to start a bible study on Romans and I cant wait for it. But I think Revelation would be a good study as well. I hope this catches on and we can cover alot of books in the bible here at CAF.

But first I want to lay down some rules
  1. This is not a debate thread. If you have a rebutal to someone that says something not in line with what you think the passage actually means link a thred post that has either already been posted or start your own thred in response to that particular subject. This will help us who may have a question about someones response and this will be kind of like footnotes
  2. Only respond once to what ever chapter we are on this will keep this thred going smothly hopfully and will limit the chance of this becoming a debate thred.
  3. I will stay on one Chapter for only 2 days and will post the next chapter at the same time eastern time for me.
  4. If you have noticed that it has been 2 days (48 hours) from the time the Chapter was posted start the next Chapter and go on with your interpritation/study. here is a link where you can click and past the chapter usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm
  5. All are welcome and free to give there interpritation of a particular chapter so we can get an idea of how both sides interprit Revelation. With out it going bazerk.
  6. If you think more rules could be added or Ideas to keep this going as smooth as possible please post it and if two agree it will come into effect unles a moderator deems it not necessary they can trump it:thumbsup:
Well Im ready to learn. I started this because the book confuses me. so I hope this helps me and others

lets keep the chapters in bold

**Chapter 1
1
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2
who gives witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ by reporting what he saw.
3
Blessed is the one 2 who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and heed what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.
4
3 John, to the seven churches in Asia: 4 grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead and ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us 5 from our sins by his blood,
6
who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father, to him be glory and power forever (and ever). Amen.
7
Behold, he is coming amid the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him. All the peoples of the earth will lament him. Yes. Amen.
8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” 6 says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty.”
9
7 I, John, your brother, who share with you the distress, the kingdom, and the endurance we have in Jesus, found myself on the island called Patmos 8 because I proclaimed God’s word and gave testimony to Jesus.
10
I was caught up in spirit on the Lord’s day 9 and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet,
11
which said, “Write on a scroll 10 what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
12
11 Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands
13
and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, 12 wearing an ankle-length robe, with a gold sash around his chest.
14
The hair of his head was as white as white wool or as snow, 13 and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
15
His feet were like polished brass refined in a furnace, 14 and his voice was like the sound of rushing water.
16
In his right hand he held seven stars. 15 A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest.
17
When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. 16 He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last,
18
the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever and ever. I hold the keys to death and the netherworld. 17
19
Write down, therefore, what you have seen, and what is happening, and what will happen afterwards. 18
20
This is the secret meaning 19 of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. **
 
Rule 7) I think you can still link a thred for a footnote even if you have already posted once for that Chapter.

verse 6 as I interprit it is that we all are the kingdom of priest because now we all can enter the holy temple. In the Old only priest could enter the temple and now that temple is in heaven and we all particiapate in worship at this timple. (Communion of Saints)
 
I don’t understand your rule 1 “this is not a debate thread”. These are Catholic Answers Forums. They ARE discussion threads.
You mean nobody is allowed to disagree with your interpretation or they can but they have to open a separate thread?? Doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Yes I know but there have been threds before that where not intended for debates.

This is a bible study and I would like to just have something to study by from both Protestant and Catholic perspectives. But if someone says something that contradicts my faith I can without getting lost in a debate click on a link that has a response to that.

I dont know? I hope that makes since. I just want this to be a bible study and I wanted to include the Protestants but at the same time I would like for it not to be a debate. To me it would be easer to follow. Hope that makes sence.

There is currently a debate on Revelation forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=201649&page=57

This is a good thred but I get lost with people jumping back and forth this to me will be more layed out and I hopfully will learn more from it.

If you could I would like to know how you would go about interprit Chapter1.

Peace:)
 
thistle said:
I don’t understand your rule 1 “this is not a debate thread”. These are Catholic Answers Forums. They ARE discussion threads.
You mean nobody is allowed to disagree with your interpretation or they can but they have to open a separate thread?? Doesn’t make sense to me.
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You did address something that did concern me maybe I should not limit people to one response so it could be a descusion but I would still like tomove on afte two days. Do you think that would be better?
 
It’s just a rule that says that we just post our own insights and thoughts concerning the passage, but not debate about it. I suppose that we can also post commentary from scholars as well.

BTW, why isn’t this over in Sacred Scripture with the other studies? :confused:
Odell said:
Chapter 1
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1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. *He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,*One thing that I have always pointed out to people is that even though God is almighty and can do all things and needs no one, He still deems to use Angels to deliver messages and accomplish things.
7
Behold, he is coming amid the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him. All the peoples of the earth will lament him.
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Yes. Amen. This is often used as part of the Rapture theology, but the only time the Bible speaks of this is at the end of time.
8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” 6 says the Lord God, “the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty.”
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“is, was, is to come”…That just seems deeply loaded with meaning.
9
7 I, John, your brother, who share with you the distress, the kingdom, and the endurance we have in Jesus, found myself on the island called Patmos 8 because I proclaimed God’s word and gave testimony to Jesus.
10
I was caught up in spirit on the Lord’s day
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9 and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet, A good proof that the New Testament church abandoned the Saturday sabbath before even the New Testament was complete since Revelation was the final book to be completed. :hmmm:
 
11
“Write on a scroll 10 what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”
12
Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands
13
and in the midst **of the lampstands **one like a son of man,
…
20
This is the secret meaning of the … the seven lampstands … the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
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The seven lampstands/churches can have several applications. Will just touch on one in this post.

The first application that I see is to the entire Church our Lord established (7 being the number that signifies completeness). When I say entire Church, I mean not just geographical, but also throughout all of earthly time. As we’ll be reading in the next few chapters, most of these “churches” were/are far from perfect.

What is so encouraging and confirming to me, is that despite their imperfection, it is in the “midst” of these churches that Our Lord - “one like the son of man” - continues to be present. (Warnings are given, but will save comment on those till we get into the chapters.)
I think of the history of our Church throughout the ages. There have been better/holier times as well as more scandalous times. Also, at any given time there is a mixture of both the good and the bad. Yet, it is in the midst of this “mixture” that Our Lord chooses to be present.

Nita
 
Odell said:
You did address something that did concern me maybe I should not limit people to one response so it could be a descusion but I would still like tomove on afte two days. Do you think that would be better?
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Thanks for not limiting it to one post. Some chapters can touch on several different aspects (this chapter being one of them). I always think it works better if separate posts are used for each aspect./point. Shorter posts are just easier to read.

Also, I’m slow moving. 😦 Wouldn’t mind a couple more days on each chapter - but, that’s just me. Whatever you decide will be fine.

Nita
 
**1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and heed what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.**

The book of Revelation does not start by saying what will happen thousands of years from now. It says what must happen soon and the time is near. Most people don’t realize the visions largely relate to the persecution of the early church, the Jewish-Roman war and the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D.

I realize that is saying alot while we are looking at chapter one but I want to say it now to put my future post in context. The Temple was a miniature representation of the world/universe and it’s destruction was the public sign of the end of the Old Covenant age. (and begining of the New) The fulfillment of those events point to the future final fulfillment, when the larger world/universe is destroyed and remade in perfection by God and this age gives way to eternity.

Sorry to jump the gun, but I should be able to stick with the text now.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
7 Behold, he is coming amid the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him. All the peoples of the earth will lament him. Yes. Amen.

This post describes some aspects of verse 7.

It speaks of Christ’s judgment then, now, and at the end of time.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Nita said:
Thanks for not limiting it to one post. Some chapters can touch on several different aspects (this chapter being one of them). I always think it works better if separate posts are used for each aspect./point. Shorter posts are just easier to read.

Also, I’m slow moving. 😦 Wouldn’t mind a couple more days on each chapter - but, that’s just me. Whatever you decide will be fine.

Nita
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I think a couple more days is fine maybe the moderator can change the rule for us to four days the only reason why I chose to do it that way is people would not have to wait for me to move on to the next chapter. Is four days good for you all just let me know?
 
13
and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, 12 wearing an ankle-length robe, with a gold sash around his chest.
14
The hair of his head was as white as white wool or as snow, 13 and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
15
His feet were like polished brass refined in a furnace, 14 and his voice was like the sound of rushing water.
16
In his right hand he held seven stars. 15 A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest.
17
When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. 16 He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last,
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I love to read the various theophanies that occur in Scripture. There are sometimes similarities in the way Our Lord chooses to appear. (cf Dan 10:5-6; Ez 1:27-28; 8;2)

I have wondered if this bodily appearance is meant to represent, not just Jesus, but the whole “body of Christ”, that is, the Church Militant (on earth), the Church Suffering (purgatory), and the Church Triumphant (heaven). If so, some possible symbolic representation could be:
white (or sometimes white/fine linen) = good works/people (cf Rev. 19:8,14)
brass refined in fire = purgatory
gold sash = perhaps martyrs and souls especially close to Him. (sash around His chest, close to His heart).
rushing water = languages of all peoples (cf Dan 10:6 “…words like the noise of a multitude”. Elsewhere in Scripture, “sea” often represents Gentile nations.)
Meaning then would be Our Lord’s words going out to all nations in their various languages.

Verse 17: John’s reaction always strikes me. This is John, the one so familiar and close to Our Lord; he had laid his head on Our Lord’s breast at the Last Supper; he had already seen Our Lord transfigured on Mt. Tabor. Yet now, glorified in heaven, there is something about Jesus of a magnitude so great, that John just collapses at His feet as tho dead. If the contrast is so great on one who had been so familiar with Him, the effect so profound - I can’t imagine what it will be like for me. But I have the feeling Our Lord’s words will be the same - “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last.”
 
Church_Militant said:
One thing that I have always pointed out to people is that even though God is almighty and can do all things and needs no one, He still deems to use Angels to deliver messages and accomplish things.
:
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Thanks. Now, after hearing it from you, it seems such an obvious conclusion that I wonder how it managed to slip by for so many years unnoticed!
Nita
 
COPLAND_3 said:
Here are some commentaries of mine that you can use.

litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Rev.+1-3+Catena

litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Rev.+4-6+Catena

litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/My+Personal+commentary+Rev.+4-6
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Thanks Copland.
Intend to run off hard copies.
When I’m “studying” Scripture, I prefer to read, ponder, pray etc., with God, first. There is a real joy in studying Scripture that way. Then, after, I like to read all available commentary.
Am looking forward to reading the info on Chapter 1.

Nita
 
Remember anybody can start the next Chapter after four days to keep this thing going so you dont have to wait on me!

**Chapter 2
1
1 "To the angel of the church 3 in Ephesus, write this: " 'The one who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands says this:
2
"I know your works, your labor, and your endurance, and that you cannot tolerate the wicked; you have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and discovered that they are impostors.
3
Moreover, you have endurance and have suffered for my name, and you have not grown weary.
4
Yet I hold this against you: you have lost the love you had at first.
5
Realize how far you have fallen. Repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
6
But you have this in your favor: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7
" ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’
8
7 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna, 8 write this: " 'The first and the last, who once died but came to life, says this:
9
"I know your tribulation and poverty, but you are rich. I know the slander of those who claim to be Jews and are not, but rather are members of the assembly of Satan.
10
Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days. Remain faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11
" ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The victor shall not be harmed by the second death.”’ 10

11 "To the angel of the church in Pergamum, 12 write this: " 'The one with the sharp two-edged sword says this:
13
"I know that you live where Satan’s throne 13 is, and yet you hold fast to my name and have not denied your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was martyred among you, where Satan lives.

14 Yet I have a few things against you. You have some people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who instructed Balak to put a stumbling block before the Israelites: to eat food sacrificed to idols and to play the harlot.
15
Likewise, you also have some people who hold to the teaching of (the) Nicolaitans.
16
Therefore, repent. Otherwise, I will come to you quickly and wage war against them with the sword of my mouth.
17
" ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I shall give some of the hidden manna; 15 I shall also give a white amulet upon which is inscribed a new name, which no one knows except the one who receives it.”’
18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira, 17 write this: " 'The Son of God, whose eyes are like a fiery flame and whose feet are like polished brass, says this:
19
"I know your works, your love, faith, service, and endurance, and that your last works are greater than the first.
20
Yet I hold this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, who teaches and misleads my servants to play the harlot and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 18
21
I have given her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her harlotry.
22
So I will cast her on a sickbed and plunge those who commit adultery with her into intense suffering unless they repent of her works.
23
I will also put her children to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds and that I will give each of you what your works deserve.
24
But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not uphold this teaching and know nothing of the so-called deep secrets of Satan: on you I will place no further burden,
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except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come.
26
" '"To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations.
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He will rule them with an iron rod. Like clay vessels will they be smashed,
28
just as I received authority from my Father. And to him I will give the morning star.
29
" ‘“Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’ **
 
One thing that stands out to me is the word Hate how is this word really used? I know God does not actuallly Hate.
 
I thought the use of the word hate might of been cause of the NAB translation but its also in the DR translation.
 
(Rev 2:6) Some have suggested that the Nicolaitans can be traced to one of the first deacons ordained by the Apostles in (Acts 6:5)

(Rev 2:9) gives us a clear indication of the tension between the Jewish leadership and the Christians in Smyrna, and suggests the conflict taking place prior to 68 A.D. (and the destruction of the Temple)

“ten days” reflect the ten days of trial that Daniel underwent and his role in ruling afterward.

(Rev 2:11) is significant because it speaks against the idea of a secret rapture before the Great Tribulation. The Church is not promised deliverance from trouble, but rewarded after successful endurance.

The letter to Pergamum parallels Daniel’s test. Daniels was ordered to eat royal food sacrificed to idols. He refused and God rewarded them.

Some suggest (Rev 2:20; 24) is linked to one of the Gnostic cults linked to Simon Magus, who is in Acts 8.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
Odell said:
One thing that stands out to me is the word Hate how is this word really used? I know God does not actuallly Hate.
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If you define hate as: to wish ill

What is hated are the works or the sin.
 
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