Bible study Revelation All are welcome

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Now I know some of Revelation depicts things that happen during the time of John or shortly after. The fall of the temple… I know Catholics believe The tribulation will happen BEFORE Jesus second coming. So is all this that is taken place in this chapter something depicting of Johns time our ours. Or is this something to come or even now? confused 🤷
 
Odell said:
Now I know some of Revelation depicts things that happen during the time of John or shortly after. The fall of the temple… I know Catholics believe The tribulation will happen BEFORE Jesus second coming. So is all this that is taken place in this chapter something depicting of Johns time our ours. Or is this something to come or even now? confused 🤷
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I think it depicts things during John’s time and the future. Therefore, the fulfillment in the first century prefigures and becomes a prophecy of a future final fulfillment at the end of time.

The temple was a miniature version of the heavens and earth and it’s destruction prefigures a future final fulfillment. Also, the tribulation of the first century prefigures the tribulation and the end of time.

Chapter thirteen describes two beasts rising up to do the dragon’s bidding. First the sea beast is given authority and it demands that the world worship the dragon and itself. It also blasphemes God, wages war, and conquers God’s holy ones. Then the second beast rises up out of the earth. This beast is given the same authority as the first and it gives theological cover to the sea beast. The land beast is also in charge of marking those who do not worship the sea beast. Those who are marked can not by or sell and they are killed by the sea beast.

The first character identified in chapter thirteen is the sea beast (Rev 13:1) and it represents pagan Rome. The sea traditionally symbolized the gentile nations. This character who was given Satan’s thrown was initially referred to in (Rev 2:13). The earth beast (Rev 13:11) is symbolic of the Sanhedrin. The land traditionally stood for the Jewish people. This character was introduced in (Rev 2:9). These characters are servants of the dragon who was identified as Satan in the previous pericope (Rev 12:9). The other characters are those who worship the beast and dragon (Rev 13:3-4) and the holy ones (Rev 13:7) who remain faithful to God.

The social setting for this episode is the conflict of Nero and the Sanhedrin verses Christ’s Church in the years leading up to the Jewish-Roman war. By the time Nero reigned, the Roman’s were worshiping their emperors as divine. The provincial governments were required to enforce this edict. The Jewish leadership had to compromise to survive, by performing daily sacrifices in the Temple for Nero. Those who refused were killed by the Romans. The Sanhedrin cooperated with the Roman persecution and even instigated it against the early Church. Then in 66 A.D. the Jews rebelled against Rome, and at that point the Roman empire turned its wrath on them. This event is later described in the vision of the beast and the harlot (Rev 17). This is the assumed cultural context the reader would understand about the narrative.
 
This leads to the symbols used in chapter thirteen, which are closely related to the social settings I just discussed.

Understanding these rhetorical devices reveals the meaning of the vision the implied author is relating. The first symbol is the seven heads and ten horns of the sea beast (Rev 13:1) It looks like the dragon which symbolizes it is the protégé of the dragon. The ten horns symbolize the provinces of Rome and the seven heads are seven emperors, which we learn about later in (Rev 17:9-12). In this vision Nero is the primary focus because he administers the Great Tribulation before the Temple is destroyed. He is the head that seemed to have a mortal wound, when he commited suicide(Rev 13:3). The authority to act for forty-two months (Rev 13:5) is symbolic of the Jewish-Roman war, after which the mortal wound was healed.

The Sanhedrin land beast had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon (Rev 13:11). This symbolism shows that it is just as deceitful as Satan but appears harmless and holy. In the following chapters the land beast is also identified as the false prophet. (Rev 16:13; 19:20; 20:10) The land beast even makes fire come down from heaven (Rev 13:14) like the prophet Elijah, but it does this to deceive those who dwell in the land. Besides giving theological cover to the sea beast this also relates to the way the Sanhedrin deceived the Jewish people into thinking they would be safe behind the Temple walls in 70 A.D. (forty-two month trampling) but they were forced to drink wormwood (Rev 8:11).

The next image is the mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18). St. John instructs his readers to reckon the number of the beast which is the human number 666. It is commonly accepted that the Gematrian numbers of Nero’s name in Hebrew totals 666. The significance of the number six is symbolic of man. Tripled it would appear very powerful but it would never add up to more than just finite man. The mark itself is symbolic of the loyalty shown to Nero. The mark on the hand signifies what one does (idol sacrifice) and the one on the forehead symbolizes what one believes. Those loyal to God’s law, who refused to practice emperor worship in the market place, where marked by Rome for death. At the same time, God marked these martyrs for eternal life (Rev 7:3; 14:1).

This first fulfillment in the first century then becomes a prophecy for a future final fulfillment at the end of time.
 
Odell said:
Now I know some of Revelation depicts things that happen during the time of John or shortly after. The fall of the temple… I know Catholics believe The tribulation will happen BEFORE Jesus second coming. So is all this that is taken place in this chapter something depicting of Johns time our ours. Or is this something to come or even now? confused 🤷
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as far as a deeper layer of meaing, the beast is the symbol of the fallen nature of man, that repeatedly ressists God and his grace throughout salvation history. The false prophet is the essence of the lies of the dragon from the beginning in the garden.

The essential lie of antichrist is to have no regard for God and His truth, nor to do His will. The second lie is secular messianism, that you can attain fulfillment purely from the creation, that is exalted above God purely for its superficialities, instead of receiving the creation as sacramental mystery pointing to union with God. Hence, our calling from God is to marry Him for all eternity (the woman), but the children of the devil would rather fornicate with the world, seeking only vain accomplishments and pleasures (the Whore).

any time sin holds prevalence in salvation history, where these lies are believed in great portion, the beast and false prophet are present.

Seven is the number of completion, therefore, the seven heads of the beast are totality of stages of sin from the fall to the end of the world.

Hence, the beast is present in Noah’s day, with the wickedness, at Babel, Egyptian enslavement, the Jewish unfaithfulness to the Old Covenant, the OT Antichrist Antiochus, pagan Rome, the modern apostasy, and the apostasy of the end of the world.

In any of these stages, the two primary lies of the dragon (the false prophet) are believed, and sin reigns (the beast). God wounds these heads of the beast with His great Redemptive actions (the Flood, the Confounding of Languages and Covenant with Abraham, the Exodus, etc…). The healing of the beast’s wound symbols that man keeps falling, the fallen nature keeps coming back to dominate.
 
Worship of kings as gods is an ancient practice that goes back to the time of the Pharaohs, but in the Roman world it had its origins when Julius Caesar attempted to have himself deified after he became dictator. I’m not sure when the Jews would have been first forced to observe this practice, although as Ryan made reference it became a cult adopted throughout much of the roman world and the monotheistic jewish religion proved difficult to make conform.

Some have thought that there is in fact more than one great fallen angel who would be called ‘satan’, which would fit with the plurality of beasts that appear here and in Daniel.

I sometimes think that the beast simply refers to that which is idolized. That is why it is said to have a bear’s feet, like a leopard, sitting on seven hills, a man, more than one beast, only one beast, a harlot, with a lion’s mouth, arising from the sea, horns like a lamb, etc. In that the actual details are perhaps not important, for it can be anything at all but it is just the historical reality of the human race that we have honoured the creation about the Creator at the devil’s temptation from whom this ‘beast’ receives its authority. The roman empire, muhammad, pagan gods, science, money, philosophy, monarchs (Nero for instance), a number, harlots, sex, gold… whatever it is that humans will go after in preference to God and give greater glory to then the Creator, I think all likewise fits under the apocalyptic title of ‘the beast’, and it is all done according to the will of the temptor who rules over it.

This world does not work according to God’s will but according to a different plan. Hence we cannot buy or sell unless one plays by the rules of this corrupted world.

Potential verses of interest:

The Beast:

Daniel 7:1-6 In the first year of Belshaz’zar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head as he lay in his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, and told the sum of the matter. Daniel said, "I saw in my vision by night, and bheold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. The first was like a lion and had eagle’s wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man; and the mind of a man was given to it. And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side; it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ After this I looked, and lo, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back; and the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Mouth uttering haughty things:

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots; and behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Conquering the saints

Daniel 7:21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints, and prevailed over them,

If one has an ear, let him hear:

Mark 4:23 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear."

Those for captivity, captivity shall they go

Jeremiah 15:2 And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them ‘Thus says the Lord: “Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those are for captivity, to captivity.”’

Making signs to bring men to worship the beast

Deuteronomy 13:1-2 "If a prophet arises among you, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder which he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’

Whoever does not worship the beast shall be slain

Daniel 3:5-6 that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image the King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; and whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace."

Six hundred and sixty-six:

1 Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold, besides that which came from the traders and from the traffic of the merchants, and from all the kings of Arabia and from the governors of the land.
 
There are two beasts (Jude 1:10-11, Titus 1:12, 2 Pe.2:11-13 below) that play the key role in prophetic Bible prophecy.

Although the beasts are described differently in the chapters of the books of Daniel and Revelation, these Scriptures are referring to one or the other of the TWO.

The beast of Revelation 13:1 is seen in the book of Daniel as the fourth beast (Dan.7:7). He is one of the kings of the four kingdoms that will stand up out of the (single) nation (Dan.8:22). He is the “the other” (seventh) king, who must CONTINUE a short space (Re.17:10); a short space is three and a half years.

The beast of Revelation 13:1 has the number 666 (Re.13:17), but it is the false prophet, the beast of Revelation 13:11 who is what the world refers to as “the antichrist”. It is he would sits in the temple of God showing himself he is God; it is he who magnifies himself (Dan.8:11, Dan.8:25, Dan.11:36-37).

The beast of Revelation 13:11 is seen in the book of Daniel as “another little horn” (Dan.7:8). He is seen as “a king of fierce countenance, … .” He is seen in Revelation chapter 17 as “a scarlet colored beast” once he sits in the temple of God showing himself he is God (2 Thess.2:4). He is “the eighth”, who is of the seven, that goes into perdition (Re.17:11, Re.17:8, Re.19:20).

At Revelation 19:20 below, at the battle of Armageddon, the beast of Revelation 13:1 is seen as “the beast”; the beast of Revelation 13:11 is seen as “the false prophet”.

Re.19:20 And the BEAST was taken, and with him the FALSE PROPHET (Re.16:13) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Beasts -

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

2 Pet 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Pet.2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Pet.2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
Author of the self-study aid, The Book of Revelation Explained © 1982
 
“Mark is the earliest of the four gospels. Aside from the passion narrative, events and lessons in Mark are arranged in an order determined more by subject matter than by historical or chronological concerns. These units were adapted to the needs of the post-Easter community and circulated in oral tradition for some forty years before Mark was written down.”

Coogan, Michael D.; Metzger, Bruce M., The Oxford Companion to the Bible; Oxford University Press, New York, Oxford, 1993; p.356
 
**Chapter 14
1
Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
2
I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
3
They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth.
4
These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.
5
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
6
Then I saw another angel flying high overhead, with everlasting good news to announce to those who dwell on earth, to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people.
7
He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, for his time has come to sit in judgment. Worship him who made heaven and earth and sea and springs of water.”
8
A second angel followed, saying: “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, that made all the nations drink the wine of her licentious passion.”
9
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice, “Anyone who worships the beast or its image, or accepts its mark on forehead or hand,
10
will also drink the wine of God’s fury, poured full strength into the cup of his wrath, and will be tormented in burning sulfur before the holy angels and before the Lamb.
11
The smoke of the fire that torments them will rise forever and ever, and there will be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name.”
12
Here is what sustains the holy ones who keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus.
13
I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” said the Spirit, “let them find rest from their labors, for their works accompany them.”
14
Then I looked and there was a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud one who looked like a son of man, with a gold crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15
Another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the one sitting on the cloud, “Use your sickle and reap the harvest, for the time to reap has come, because the earth’s harvest is fully ripe.”
16
So the one who was sitting on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17
Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven who also had a sharp sickle.
18
Then another angel (came) from the altar, (who) was in charge of the fire, and cried out in a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and cut the clusters from the earth’s vines, for its grapes are ripe.”
19
So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and cut the earth’s vintage. He threw it into the great wine press of God’s fury.
20
The wine press was trodden outside the city and blood poured out of the wine press to the height of a horse’s bridle for two hundred miles. **
 
**1
Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. **
**
5
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished. **

sounds alot like
(Hebrews 12:22-24) “No, YOU have approached **Mount Zion **and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in FESTAL gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the spirits just made perfect, (verse 5)
and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood that speaks more eloquently than that of Abel.”

Everything John sees is what the author of Hebrews is describing John was call up on the Lords day and sees the Lamb on Mount Zion those in Hebrews have approached Mount Zion with the angels and spirits made perfect this Mount Zion is also the New Jerusalem, Revelations talks about the Old being destroyed.

Now Christians can enter this temple and worship as the Old Priest could only enter the temple of Old. We are all priest and at Mass we worship with the angels and saint before the Lamb.

I wonder how many actually grasp this. We actually approach this alter at service.

Are Catholics the only ones who teach this wonderfull stuff?
I mean how awsome is it knowing we are there with all those who have gone before us and the angels. worshiping with them as those in Hebrews did and as John has.
 
Odell said:
1
Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
**
5
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished. **

sounds alot like
(Hebrews 12:22-24) “No, YOU have approached **Mount Zion **and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in FESTAL gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the spirits just made perfect, (verse 5)
and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood that speaks more eloquently than that of Abel.”

Everything John sees is what the author of Hebrews is describing John was call up on the Lords day and sees the Lamb on Mount Zion those in Hebrews have approached Mount Zion with the angels and spirits made perfect this Mount Zion is also the New Jerusalem, Revelations talks about the Old being destroyed.

Now Christians can enter this temple and worship as the Old Priest could only enter the temple of Old. We are all priest and at Mass we worship with the angels and saint before the Lamb.

I wonder how many actually grasp this. We actually approach this alter at service.

Are Catholics the only ones who teach this wonderfull stuff?
I mean how awsome is it knowing we are there with all those who have gone before us and the angels. worshiping with them as those in Hebrews did and as John has.
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It is pretty awesome… furthermore we are all brothers and sisters of the same family with God as our Father…all united into one… imagine how many sibilings we must have in the heavens?

This marks the division of the wicked from the righteous that shall occur at the close of the age, and the harvest of the wheat and the chaff that Jesus referred to in his parables. The wheat is gathered into the barn, but the chaff is burnt with fire.

We experience God’s wrath in this world already, and souls are already sent to suffer in eternal punishment, while others sing the song of the saints in heaven.

God has an irresistable will, for there is no power in heaven or earth that is capable of standing against him for very long, and we know that all of His enemies shall be destroyed and placed beneath His feet as the kingdom becomes more established, and all of his enemies will finally be thrown into the winepress once the Lamb returns to Mount Zion and the eternal sabbath begins.

It is fearful thing, and I feel compelled to make a prayer now:

(you may repeat this yourselves if you like)

Lord, if it please You, may all of us contributing to this forum thread and everyone else we may pray this for, be spared in your mercy from the wrath of the winepress and come to sing a new song with your mark upon us. We ask this through Jesus Your Son, Amen.

Verses of potential interest

Name of God on their foreheads:

Ezekiel 9:4 And the Lord said to him, “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark upon the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.”

Fallen, fallen is Babylon

Isaiah 21:9 And behold, here come riders, horsemen in pairs!" And he answered, “Fallen, fallen in Babylon; and all the images of her gods he has shattered to the ground.”

God’s wrath of fire and brimstone:

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;

No rest day or night:

Isaiah 34:10 Night and day it shall not be quenced; its smoke shall go up for ever. From generation to generation it shall lies waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Son of man on a white cloud:

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

The harvest:

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’

Put in the sickle to reap the harvest and the wine press:

Joel 3:13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the wine press is full. The vats overflow, for their wickedness is great.
 
144,000 is symbolic (twelve squared times ten cubed) of the number of Jewish Christians brought into the Church before the fall of the Temple. This excludes the non-Jewish Christians who were mentioned in (Rev 7:9)

As others have mentioned, they are singing the eucharistic song at the heavenly alter. When we sing “holy, holy, holy,” we join all the choirs of saints and angels in heaven (4:8) This is the battle strategy of the Lamb.
 
The 144,000 are the remnant of Israel (Zph.3:13 below) who we see giving glory to God (Re.11:13 below) in the city where also are Lord was crucified (Re.11:8) just before the Seventh, and final, TRUMPET sounds.

The 144,000 are those who are “alive and remain” to be caught up with “the dead in Christ” (1Thess.4:16-17).

The 144,000 are 12,000 of each of the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob – Gen.49:28).

The seven thousand of men slain in the earthquake, wherein the tenth part of the city falls in the earthquake (Re.11:13 below), are Gentiles (Re.11:2, 1 Thess.4:5, Eph.2:12).

At this point in time, the two prophets have already been killed (Re.11:8-12). The only remaining alive of the church (1 Cor.10:32) at the time of that earthquake (just prior to their ascension) are the 144,000.

The 144,000 are Jews in Christ recognizing Jesus Christ as the Lamb, the Savior (Re.14:1 below).

At Revelation chapter 14 we are seeing the 144,000 on heavenly mount Sion with the Lamb directly after the Seventh Trumpet.

The 144,000 are virgins (Re.14:4 below), because the entire church are a chaste virgin to Christ (2 Cor.11:2). They are without fault (Re.14:5 below) because the entire church are without fault (Rom.8:1). The 144,000 are the firstfruits unto God AND to the Lamb because the 144,000 were the first “chosen” of the church before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Christ in love (Eph.1:4).

The entire body of Christ Jesus, throughout all ages, will be in heaven at the Seventh Trumpet (1 Thess.4:16-17); this includes the 144,000 in Christ Jesus, the remnant of Israel (Zeph.3:13, Re.11:3), those who are alive and remain (1 Thess.4:17).

Re.11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the CITY (Re.11:8) fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the REMNANT (in the city - the 144,000, Re.14:3, Zeph.3:13 below) were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the (seventh) trump(et) of God (1 Thess.4:17, Re.10:7): and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thess.4:17 Then we which are alive and remain (the remnant, Re.11:13, Zech.3:13 below) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Zeph.3:13 The REMNANT OF ISRAEL (Re.11:13 above, Re.14:1, Re.14:4 below) shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

The 144,000 - Jews in Christ -

Re.14:1 And I looked, and lo, a Lamb (Rev.13:8) stood on mount Sion (Heb.12:22 below), and with him AN HUNDRED FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads (Re.7:3-4, Eze.9:4).

Re.14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne (Re.7:10, Re.7:17), and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn the song but THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH (Re.11:13, 1 Thess.4:17 above).

Re.14:4 These (144,000) are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS (2 Cor.11:2 below). These are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth (Re.19:14). These were redeemed from among men (Re.14:3 above), BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God (the Father) AND to the Lamb (the Savior).

Re.14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God.

Heb. 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion (Re.14:1 above), and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.

2 Cor.11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you ( the church of God - 1 Cor.10:32) to one husband that I may present you as A CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ.

Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
Author of the self-study aid, The Book of Revelation Explained © 1982
 
I would argue that the 144,000 are martyrs who are in heaven.

Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads (14:1).“They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders” (14:3), who were in heaven in (5:6)

In (Rev 6:9-11) we saw souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellowservants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. In (7:9) they stood before the throne and before the Lamb, wearing white robes, just as the 144,000 are standing with the Lamb in chapter 14.

In (7:3) God demanded more time to complete the identification of Christ’s followers. No evil was allowed until the servants of God had the seal upon their foreheads. (the same mark mentioned in the letter to the Chruch in Philadelphia)

The eucharistic song of these chaste, holy martyrs stirs the three angels, who announce “Fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come” (14:7). At this point, the angel is not announcing the final, general judgment that all humanity will undergo at the end of time.

I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” said the Spirit, “let them find rest from their labors, for their works accompany them.” (14:13) After the last judgment, “death shall be no more” (21:4) and we are not at that point yet.
 
**Chapter 15
1
Then I saw in heaven another sign, great and awe-inspiring: seven angels with the seven last plagues, for through them God’s fury is accomplished.
2
Then I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire. On the sea of glass were standing those who had won the victory over the beast and its image and the number that signified its name. They were holding God’s harps,
3
and they sang the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: “Great and wonderful are your works, Lord God almighty. Just and true are your ways, O king of the nations.
4
Who will not fear you, Lord, or glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
5
After this I had another vision. The temple that is the heavenly tent of testimony opened,
6
and the seven angels with the seven plagues came out of the temple. They were dressed in clean white linen, with a gold sash around their chests.
7
One of the four living creatures gave the seven angels seven gold bowls filled with the fury of God, who lives forever and ever.
8
Then the temple became so filled with the smoke from God’s glory and might that no one could enter it until the seven plagues of the seven angels had been accomplished. **
 
The battle of Armageddon is a Plague event.

Trumpet events follow Seal events followed by Plague events. Seal events have not yet concluded.

At the Sixth Plague the way is PREPARED for the soon coming battle of Armageddon, and the Dragon and the beast and the false prophet, and their armies are gathered together (by Spiritual forces) into “a place” for the battle (Re.16:12-16, Jer 51:36, Jer.51:49, Isa.63:2-3 below).

After the Seventh, and final, PLAGUE, after the great city Babylon comes into remembrance before God, after the fall of that great city Babylon (Re.16:17-21, Revelation chapter 18), the battle of Armageddon will be fought.

The battle will be fought after the marriage of the Lamb has taken place in heaven. The church of God (1 Cor.10:32) throughout all ages (the wife) has made herself ready (Re.19:17) and are the armies of the Lord that accompanies Him to the battle (Re.19:14).

The end of the battle of Armageddon will mark the beginning of the Millennium.

Directly after the battle of Armageddon (Re.19:11-21) is fought, and after the beast and the false prophet are taken in the battle and cast into the lake of fire (Re.19:20), the Lord will stand upon the mount of Olives (Zech.14:4 below).

Saints of the most High (Dan.7:22), the Lamb’s wife, will live AND reign with Him throughout the Millennium, the thousand years (Re.20:4).

Re.16:12 And the SIXTH angel poured out his vial upon the great river Eu-phra-tes; and the water thereof was dried up (Jer.51:36 below), that the way of the kings (Re.17:12-14) of the east might be PREPARED.

Re.16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (Re.12:9, Re.20:2, Re.9:11), and out of the mouth of the beast (Re.13:1-8), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (Re.13:11-17).

Re.16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and the whole world, TO GATHER THEM TO THE BATTLE OF THAT GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY (Re.19:19).

Re.16:16 And he (the Sixth Plague angel) GATHERED THEM TOGETHER INTO A PLACE (Jer.51:49 below) called in the Hebrew tongue Ar-ma-ged-don.

Jer.51:36 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will plead thy cause, and take vengeance for thee (Isa.63:2-3 below); and I will dry up her sea, and make her springs dry (Re.16:12 above).

Jer.51:49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall (Dan.11:33, Lk.21:24), so at Babylon (Re.14:20, Re.18:16, Re.18:18) shall fall the slain of all the earth.

Isa.63:2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

Isa.63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone (Re.14:20, Jer.51:49 above); and of the people there was none with me: for I (Re.19:13, Jn.1:1) will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Zech.14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
Author of the self-study aid, The Book of Revelation Explained © 1982
groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
 
**Chapter 16
1
I heard a loud voice speaking from the temple to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the seven bowls of God’s fury upon the earth.”
2
The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth. Festering and ugly sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast or worshiped its image.
3
The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea. The sea turned to blood like that from a corpse; every creature living in the sea died.
4
The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water. These also turned to blood.
5
Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say: “You are just, O Holy One, who are and who were, in passing this sentence.
6
For they have shed the blood of the holy ones and the prophets, and you (have) given them blood to drink; it is what they deserve.”
7
Then I heard the altar cry out, “Yes, Lord God almighty, your judgments are true and just.”
8
The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun. It was given the power to burn people with fire.
9
People were burned by the scorching heat and blasphemed the name of God who had power over these plagues, but they did not repent or give him glory.
10
The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast. Its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and people bit their tongues in pain
11
and blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores. But they did not repent of their works.
12
The sixth angel emptied his bowl on the great river Euphrates. Its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East.
13
I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast, and from the mouth of the false prophet.
14
These were demonic spirits who performed signs. They went out to the kings of the whole world to assemble them for the battle on the great day of God the almighty.
15
(“Behold, I am coming like a thief.” Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his clothes ready, so that he may not go naked and people see him exposed.)
16
They then assembled the kings in the place that is named Armageddon in Hebrew.
17
The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. A loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.”
18
Then there were lightning flashes, rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake. It was such a violent earthquake that there has never been one like it since the human race began on earth.
19
The great city was split into three parts, and the gentile cities fell. But God remembered great Babylon, giving it the cup filled with the wine of his fury and wrath.
20
Every island fled, and mountains disappeared.
21
Large hailstones like huge weights came down from the sky on people, and they blasphemed God for the plague of hail because this plague was so severe. **
 
The entire body of Christ Jesus, throughout all ages, will all be in heaven from the Seventh TRUMPET (1 Thess.4:16-17).

Jesus delivers the church (1 Cor.10:32 – His living body, Col.1:24) from the wrath to come. The church is not appointed to wrath and are saved from wrath through Him (1 Thess.1:10,1 Thess.5:9, Rom.5:9 below).

Directly after the Seventh TRUMPET, the wrath of God will be poured out. Note Revelation15:2 (below) - We see the very last of the body of Christ, those who gained the victory over the beast . . ., standing on the sea of glass in heaven, just before the Seven Last Plagues are to be poured out upon the earth (Re.15:1, Re.15:6-8, Re.16:1).

The heathen (Gentile – 1 Thess.4:5, Eph.2:12, 1 Cor.10:32) will remain upon the earth after the Seventh TRUMPET to face the wrath of God. The wrath of God abides in those who do not believe on the Son (Jn.3:36 below).

The church faces the wroth of the Dragon (Re.12:17, Re.14:12-13), not the wrath of God.

1 Thess.1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thess.5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom.5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Re.15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and THEM THAT HAD GOTTEN (past tense) THE VICTORY over the beast (Re.13:1-2), and over his image (Re.13:14), and over his mark (Re.13:16), and over the number of his name (Re.13:17-18), stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Jn.3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Patricia © Bible Prophecy on the Web
Author of the self-study aid, The Book of Revelation Explained © 1982
groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
 
I don’t know what you think… but I think this would make one spectacular American hollywood blockbuster if anyone ever tried to make cinema of it… could you imagine the special effects with things like the men being scorched by the sun’s fire?

Sometimes I think we fail to appreciate what incredible literature the word of God truly is

Things that may be worth noting is the relationships between these plagues and the ones that came upon Egypt by Moses’ ministry.

Also, Armageddon, I’m under the impression, refers to Megiddo wherein King Josiah was defeated by Pharoah (see reference below)

Also there’s a reference here about a beast, a dragon and a false prophet, which are three figures… perhaps the false prophet is the ‘antichrist’ figure, and the beast is something different

I’m thinking about that phrase in Daniel and here about an earthquake or a time of troubles such as has never occurred on the earth… now if we consider the kinds of troubles that have occurred on the earth (eg. the black plague, Genghis Khan, the world wars, etc.) and think of how much death and devestation was produced by those things… we then consider that what is promised to come in this earthquake is even greater still

I tremble at the thought of this quake (pun intended), and feel compelled to pray once more:

(you can say this too if you choose)

Lord, save us from the terrible wrath which is to come on this world that sheds the blood of Your Son, and bring us in your mercy to be kept awake with clean garments when the Lamb returns. We ask this through Your Son, Amen.

Verses of Potential interest

Seven plagues:

Leviticus 26:21 "Then if you walk contrary to me, and will not hearken to me, I will bring more plagues upon you, sevenfold as many as your sins.

Song of Moses

Exodus 15:1 Then Moses and the people of Israel sang this song to the Lord sayng, "I will sing to the Lord, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider he has thrown into the sea.

[it continues to verse 18]

Who shall not fear the Lord?:

Jeremiah 10:7 Who would not fear thee, O King of the nations? For this is thy due; for among all the wise ones of hte nations and in all their kingdoms there is none like thee.

Temple filled with smoke:

Isaiah 6:4 Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar.

Voice from the temple calling out the wrath of God:

Isaiah 66:6 [note the number of this verse] "Hark, an uproar from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the Lord, rendering recompense to his enemies!

Evil sores:

Deuteronomy 28:35 The Lord will smite you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from teh sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

Plagues affecting the water:

Exodus 7:17-21 Thus says the Lord, “By this you shall know that I am the Lord: behold, I will strike the water that is in the Nile with the rod that is in my hands, and it shall be turned to blood, and the fish in the Nile shal die, and the Nile shall become foul, and the Egyptians will loathe to drink the water from the Nile,”’" And the Lord said to Moses, “Say to Aaron, 'Take your rod and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their rivers, their canals, and their ponds, and all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and there shall be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood and in vessels of stone.” Moses and Aaron did as the Lord commanded; in the sight of Pharoah and in the sight of his servants, he lifted up the rod and struck the water that was in the Nile, and all the water that was in the Nile turned to blood. And the fish in the Nile died; and the Nile became foul, so that the Egyptians could not drink water from the Nile; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

Shedding the blood of the saints:

Psalms 79-2-3 They have given the bodies of thy servants to the birds of the air for food, the flesh of thy saints to the beasts of the earth. They have poured out their blood like water round about Jerusalem, and there was none to bury them.

Just and true are the Lord’s judgments:

Psalms 119:137 Righteous are thou, O Lord, and right are thy judgments.

Land in Darkness

Exodus 10:21 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, a darkness to be felt.”

Foul spirits from the mouth of the false prophet:

1 Kings 22:21-23 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so. 'Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has spoken evil concerning you."

The Lord coming like a thief:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

battle at Armageddon:

2 Kings 23:29 In his days Pharaoh Neco king of Egypt went upto the king of Assyria to the river Euphrates. Kind Josiah went to meet him; and Pharaoh Neco slew him at Megiddo [ie. Armageddon], when he saw him.

A great earthquake such as has not been on the earth:

Daniel 12:1 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who names shall be found written in the book.

Hailstones:

Exodus 9:23 Then Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven; and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth. And the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt;
 
Sorry for the big delay I have been studing all week for my final exam in EMT class. I passed last night thank God. So now I can get back to this bible study hope it has been good for you guys so far. I started this thred so I could study into Revelation without having to go out there and buy a book plus having a Protestant side to the study as well.

anyway thanks for your help with Revelation 😃

Chapter 17
1
Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters.
2
The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry.”
3
Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns.
4
The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls. She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry.
5
On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.”
6
I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed.
7
The angel said to me, “Why are you amazed? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns.
8
The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again.
9
Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also represent seven kings:
10
five have already fallen, one still lives, and the last has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a short while.
11
The beast that existed once but exists no longer is an eighth king, but really belongs to the seven and is headed for destruction.
12
The ten horns that you saw represent ten kings who have not yet been crowned; they will receive royal authority along with the beast for one hour.
13
They are of one mind and will give their power and authority to the beast.
14
They will fight with the Lamb, but the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and king of kings, and those with him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
15
Then he said to me, "The waters that you saw where the harlot lives represent large numbers of peoples, nations, and tongues.
16
The ten horns that you saw and the beast will hate the harlot; they will leave her desolate and naked; they will eat her flesh and consume her with fire.
17
For God has put it into their minds to carry out his purpose and to make them come to an agreement to give their kingdom to the beast until the words of God are accomplished.
18
The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth."
 
[And thank you, Odell, for making this thread and keeping it going,]

the seven hills has been thought to be an allusion to the city of Rome which was built upon seven hills around the Tiber river.

Martin Luther used these verses to support his view that the antichrist was the papacy.

There are many christians who have thought that a future antichrist will be a pope.

The roman empire was a construction of a number of kingdoms that were conquered, subdued and joined together and this is a reference to the ‘ten kings’ who will arise with the beast.

Some interesting verses I think are that it says the ten horns and the beast will hate and devour the harlot… as Jesus said if satan’s kingdom is divided against him, how will it stand?

Also what it says about the beast as being timeless, something that was and is not, and will arise in the future… again perhaps suggesting that the ‘beast’ is perhaps different from the false prophet and not an individual person, but something grander

Verses of potential interest

the judgement of the one who sits at many waters:

Jeremiah 51:13 O you who dwell by many waters, rich in treasures, your end has come, the thread of your life is cut.

the harlot with the whole earth:

Isaiah 23:17 At the end of seventy years, the Lord will visit Tyre, and she will return to her hire, and will play the harlot with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

making the nations drunk on her cup:

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand, making all the earth drunken; the nations drank of her wine, therefore the nations went mad.

the beast:

Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came out of the sea, different from one another

the ten horns:

Daniel 7:20-24 and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up and before which three of them fell, the horn which had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and which seemed greater than its fellows. As I looked, this horn made war with the saints, and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of hte Most High, and the time came when the saints received the kingdom. "Thus he said: 'As for the fourth beast, there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings.

the Lord of lords:

Daniel 2:47 The king said to Daniel, “Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you ahve been able to reveal this mystery.”
 
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