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poche
Guest
Sometimes it is best not to argue in these situations. What I think is best is to live the holiness that God is calling you to live and to pray for your friend.
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De_Maria
Guest
Remember that the Church also preaches. So, the preaching is the message. The Bible is the written message which is passed down. And, the Magisterium is the instructor who explains the message and interprets the written word.
Yes, Peter is here to explain. He does so with Papal documents. He also has the Church to Teach and the Scriptures which are passed down. As well as many Catechisms and Council documents which explain everything again.
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hymin
Guest
I agree.
And in high regard to Magisterium, I present this: “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.” (CCC 85, Dei Verbum 10)
And in high regard to Magisterium, I present this: “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.” (CCC 85, Dei Verbum 10)
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
…and we have this right from Christ:
Maran atha!
Angel
…and we have this right from Christ:
Jesus Commands that His Followers bring the issues to the Church and that the Church’s counsel must be accepted or the individual/s excommunicated by the Church.
Maran atha!
Angel
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SnoopSword
Guest
You might have to answer for that at Judgement.
You’re obviously associating with Anabaptists. I know the things they do and say to bring people down into the abyss with them.
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SnoopSword
Guest
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
…yeah, I thought it harsh but did not want to make an issue of it.
This is clearly inflammatory language to solicit dramatic effect.
The originators and users are so far removed from Apostolic times that they actually think that their issues were as simple as a walk in the park; the reality is that just by association they could all have been imprisoned or killed only those Christians who live in such horrendous parts of the world that to be associated with Christ means that you are exposed to exploitation, torture, terrorism, slavery, rape and murder can begin to understand the plight of the Eleven.
Maran atha!
Angel
…yeah, I thought it harsh but did not want to make an issue of it.
This is clearly inflammatory language to solicit dramatic effect.
The originators and users are so far removed from Apostolic times that they actually think that their issues were as simple as a walk in the park; the reality is that just by association they could all have been imprisoned or killed only those Christians who live in such horrendous parts of the world that to be associated with Christ means that you are exposed to exploitation, torture, terrorism, slavery, rape and murder can begin to understand the plight of the Eleven.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
…yeah, very Lutheran.
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
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BenjaminJ
Guest
Are you guys that bored you’ll argue with troll.
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DebCWil
Guest
If you are going to quote me, please quote my entire quotation. Every Apostle, except John did abandon Christ at Calvary. The birthday of the Church is Pentecost when the Apostles were strengthened by the Holy Spirit. It is the indwelling Spirit which gave them the courage and zeal necessary to carry the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Thomas, who doubted the Resurrection of Christ, carried the Gospel to India.
By virtue of the Sacraments, we are the Church. We are the Body of Christ. The Holy Spirit dwells within each of us. Our Lord said that He would not leave us abandoned. He has not.
“I am the vine, and you are the branches. Apart from me you can do nothing. With God all things are possible.”
By virtue of the Sacraments, we are the Church. We are the Body of Christ. The Holy Spirit dwells within each of us. Our Lord said that He would not leave us abandoned. He has not.
“I am the vine, and you are the branches. Apart from me you can do nothing. With God all things are possible.”
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hymin
Guest
“The Church, which from the beginning has modelled her earthly journey on that of the Mother of God, constantly repeats after her the words of the Magnificat. From the depths of the Virgin’s faith at the Annunciation and the Visitation, the Church derives the truth about the God of the Covenant: the God who is Almighty and does “great things” for man: “holy is his name.” In the Magnificat the Church sees uprooted that sin which is found at the outset of the earthly history of man and woman, the sin of disbelief and of “little faith” in God. In contrast with the “suspicion” which the “father of lies” sowed in the heart of Eve the first woman, Mary, whom tradition is wont to call the “new Eve” and the true “Mother of the living,” boldly proclaims the undimmed truth about God: the holy and almighty God, who from the beginning is the source of all gifts, he who “has done great things” in her, as well as in the whole universe.” (St. Pope John Paul II, Redemptoris Mater, 37)
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hymin
Guest
No. Read St. Ambrose, On Repentance:
"And the Apostle teaches us how to dung it, saying: “I count all things but dung, that I may gain Christ,” Philippians 3:8 and he, through evil report and good report, attained to pleasing Christ. For he had read that Abraham, when confessing himself to be but dust and ashes, Genesis 18:27 in his deep humility found favour with God. He had read how Job, sitting among the ashes, Job 2:8 regained all that he had lost. Job 42:10 He had heard in the utterance of David, how God “raises the poor out of the dust, and lifts the needy out of the dunghill.” (Book 2, Ch. 1, n. 4)
This is the proper sense of my words.
"And the Apostle teaches us how to dung it, saying: “I count all things but dung, that I may gain Christ,” Philippians 3:8 and he, through evil report and good report, attained to pleasing Christ. For he had read that Abraham, when confessing himself to be but dust and ashes, Genesis 18:27 in his deep humility found favour with God. He had read how Job, sitting among the ashes, Job 2:8 regained all that he had lost. Job 42:10 He had heard in the utterance of David, how God “raises the poor out of the dust, and lifts the needy out of the dunghill.” (Book 2, Ch. 1, n. 4)
This is the proper sense of my words.
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superblue
Guest
There are some archiological research studies that have been conducted to verify sites that are probably tribal locations of King David, and some other people in the Old Testament, I think there is even a mumified Pharoh that is on display some where who is the pharoh at the time when the Old Testament refers either to the crossing the dead sea, or the seven plagues , i cant remember, it is one of those things if ya got the time and energy ya can look up. Point being, there are some factual and scientific evidence to back up things in the Old Testament, as to the New Testament, you could argue the historical religious sites that are shared by Muslims, Jews, and Catholics, The Tomb of Christ, the Three crosses that were recovered that are believed to be of Christ, and the two others crucified with Him… things like that are hard to refute as being doctored, but they do correlate to what is told in the Bible. The problem with the Bible is that in the end it is based on faith and trust.
Yes the bible could have been put together by people with an agenda to suit their needs, but that arguement doesn’t really make much sense, I mean what kind of conspiracy is it to create something about eternal salvation ? Where is the big ah ha in duping people in that and why ?
It would be easier to fabricate a treasure map, and sell it to some poor shmuck for a a couple of grand and never be heard from again, than to create a book spanning generations, and nations, and then having emperors convert to the faith and validate Catholicism and adhear to one Bible… so, yeah. Maybe your friend just enjoys arguing and debating with you, or enjoys being a skeptic, who knows for sure but your friend. But there is some stuff for your friend to consider.
Yes the bible could have been put together by people with an agenda to suit their needs, but that arguement doesn’t really make much sense, I mean what kind of conspiracy is it to create something about eternal salvation ? Where is the big ah ha in duping people in that and why ?
It would be easier to fabricate a treasure map, and sell it to some poor shmuck for a a couple of grand and never be heard from again, than to create a book spanning generations, and nations, and then having emperors convert to the faith and validate Catholicism and adhear to one Bible… so, yeah. Maybe your friend just enjoys arguing and debating with you, or enjoys being a skeptic, who knows for sure but your friend. But there is some stuff for your friend to consider.
- disclaimer, none of this a personal attack on anyone, if anyone does not like what i have to say, feel free to disagree knowing that i am not going to respond or engage in any baiting. *
po18guy
Well-known member
I’ll bet that friend places trust in science. Tell you what: Go to your local thrift store (Goodwill, Salvation Army etc.) and buy an old science book. One from the 1950s or 1960s. Read just a bit of its content. There is almost nothing more useless than an outdated science book. Some of it is laughable.
The scriptures, on the other hand, teach timeless truths. Methinks that those who poo poo the bible are rather narrow-minded and intellectually lazy.
The scriptures, on the other hand, teach timeless truths. Methinks that those who poo poo the bible are rather narrow-minded and intellectually lazy.
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hymin
Guest
I have some sympathies for what po18guy posted on intellectual laziness. For the sake of the OP, could anyone see venom of a lie of that which I had posted in this thread? I would appreciate any Catholic doctrine of a possible needed antivenom. I will respond with reasonable discussion.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Because we get wet. As far as the Bible, one must have faith in the NT writings and to believe in Catholic teaching one must have faith in Catholic interpretation.
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HarryStotle
Guest
And what about the Old Testament writings?
I would suppose we are to understand BOTH the OT and the NT as interpreted and taught by the Church, try the best we can to understand and follow Church teaching in matters of faith and morals, and have faith in God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit.)
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Sy_Noe
Guest
It takes faith too. Not everyone is Jewish or Christian. Or Catholic Christian for that matter.
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
I stand corrected; I had not read that verse with “dung” as the focal point (garbage, rubbish…); so I automatically associated the expression to Luther’s ‘snow covered…’
Maran atha!
Angel
I stand corrected; I had not read that verse with “dung” as the focal point (garbage, rubbish…); so I automatically associated the expression to Luther’s ‘snow covered…’
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
Wow, what a disclaimer… it reminds me of those who engage people in arguments, yell and scream their “positions” and walk/fast-walk away to avoid a response; trouble is… they then turn around and repeat the process…
Me, I stick out like the proverbial one in the mud–it’s the only way to express myself and secure an exchange…
Maran atha!
Angel
Wow, what a disclaimer… it reminds me of those who engage people in arguments, yell and scream their “positions” and walk/fast-walk away to avoid a response; trouble is… they then turn around and repeat the process…
Me, I stick out like the proverbial one in the mud–it’s the only way to express myself and secure an exchange…
I concur with you; how profitable is it to dupe everyone in the world to Love God Above all and their neighbor as themselves? …so a world of do gooders is bad?
Maran atha!
Angel
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