Biblical perspective of rewards

[mikeledes]

Do you guys disagree these verses are showing salvation in present tense? Oops I forrgot where I was of course you don’t.

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life” (John 3:36).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).

“Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace” (2 Tim. 1:9).

“And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace” (Luke 7:50).

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5).

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son” (I John 5: 11).

As Catholics, we believe that we presently possess eternal life in the sense that we presenly enjoy a particpation in the very life of God. We are “partakers of the divine nature.” The consummation and confirmation of this life occurs after judgement. We will enjoy eternal life in its fullest sense in the age to come. We are saved, being saved, and will be saved. So we do believe in salvation in the past, present, and future sense.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[MrS]

Like the prodigal son, we have received our inheiritance… and like him, we could squander it at any time… and like him we could return again.

It’s a process.

Just because we are heirs to heaven, does not mean we will always choose to receive it.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

In other words, **when Scripture doesn’t support your view, assume you’re right anyway and exhort us all to repent! **Sorry, that doesn’t cut any ice.

Besides, we aren’t talking about how we “get saved.” We are talking about the basis for judgment. I do not believe that we “get saved” (i.e., initially receive the grace of God) through good works. I don’t believe the Catholic Church teaches this either, but check with the Catholics on this board.

However, I do believe, as Scripture teaches, that we are *judged *by our works. This actually matches what you said above–we are saved by faith, but true faith will produce works which can be judged.

In Christ,

Edwin

Impossible. Because Scripture does match my view. I can turn it around and ask you the same thing (Edited by Moderator).

 

[hoosierdaddy]

hi hoosier

it could be worse… it could be “but the hoosier says…”

It couldn’t be. Because I say what Scripture says. Chow.

 

[JaneFrances]

Great thread!

Another Biblical perspective of reward that seems to be curiously absent from the one offered by the OP, is that of St. Paul in his letter to the Romans, Chapter 2. . .

6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

Here St. Paul is clearly talking about salvation as he references “eternal life.” And he clearly says that “God will give to each person according to what he has done.”

Further, he specifies that those who persevere in “doing good” will receive the gift of eternal life. There is an integral connection there that can not be refuted within the whole tapestry of Pauline theology.

I wonder how this justifies in the OP’s biblical perspective and theology?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

All those ordained to eternal glory will persevere. Those ordained to grace will not. This still does not mean that God does not incoporate free will and good works in accomplishing the final salvation of the elect. Salvation is God’s intiative, but we must all cooperate with His grace.

God Bless,
Michael

All those whom God has called, He has justfied. All those whom He has justified, He will glorify. He has already justfied all believers in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ so it stands to reason that He will also glorify all believers in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

It’s interesting that you mention free will. We do have free will but it is not in the way that you think we do. You cannot use your free will to pick the day you were born, where you were born, whether or not you will live the next five minutes, whether or not someone will look at you funny, etc. We do not have free will in spiritual matters because Adam and Eve sinned and thus we are all infected by sin. A nature affected by sin will always use it’s free will to sin. We have the free will to act according to our natures. This we do, and sin.

When we are saved (eternally) we then have free will to count ourselves dead to sin and serve the Lord alone. However, we also have the free will to sin. If we do this, there will be consequences. The Lord disciplines those He loves. Therefore, He disciplines us and does not punish us with eternal hell. When He tells those that He casts into hell, “I never knew you” that is exactly what He meant. He is not talking to anyone who was a Christian as He did not say, “I used to know you”; He said, “I never knew you”. This is an important distinction to make.

And those are the biblical **facts. ** :tiphat:

 

[mikeledes]

Great thread!

Another Biblical perspective of reward that seems to be curiously absent from the one offered by the OP, is that of St. Paul in his letter to the Romans, Chapter 2. . .

Here St. Paul is clearly talking about salvation as he references “eternal life.” And he clearly says that “God will give to each person according to what he has done.”

Further, he specifies that those who persevere in “doing good” will receive the gift of eternal life. There is an integral connection there that can not be refuted within the whole tapestry of Pauline theology.

I wonder how this justifies in the OP’s biblical perspective and theology?

That’s right! God renders according to each person’s works. Protestants say that this is a reference to “rewards.” And yet, whenever the Bible depicts God actually rendering according to works, what is being given is eternal life in the age to come.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[hoosierdaddy]

That’s right! God renders according to each person’s works. Protestants say that this is a reference to “rewards.” And yet, whenever the Bible depicts God actually rendering according to works, what is being given is eternal life in the age to come.

God Bless,
Michael

So how many works do you have on the good side and do they outweigh the bad side?

How come you have a “hope so” salvation and my Bible according to 1 John and many other passages says that I have a “know so” salvation? It is a fact that I have a “know so” salvation.

 

[YADA]

Myfavoritemartian forgets that a gift freely given must be accepted to be competed. And if the person who receives the gift promptly puts the gift in the closet, never to be seen or used the gift has no value or use for the receipient beyond the initial joy at the hand off.

Many Christians follow that same path. Joy at the initial time of conversion, the Altar Call experience and even for new Catholics the agter glow of the Easter Vigil. Call it the Honeymoon… But like marriage, the Christian life can be hard and difficult at times and the glow can be less bright at times. These are the times we must "pick up our cross" and follow Jesus. I beleive this is what St. Paul means when he speaks of adding to the work of Jesus on the Cross. JEsus’ work on the Cross was complete and PErfect and nott lacking in any way.

However, God calls us to join him in the work of salvation, He calls us to "daily pick up our cross". To join our lives to Christ, to acccept, freely, the gift and use it.

It is not a “feel good” theology that is preached in some churches. Jesus bore all the illnesses and strife and if your faith is strong enough you will be healed and suffer no sickness or strife. Some churches actually teach this. Like if you need glasses after being prayed over it is because you don’t have faith, Jesus has healed you as in “By His stripes you are healed”…Just have faith, just know you are saved thats all you have to do, oh wait…that sounds like a work…

 

[hoosierdaddy]

YADA>>

Myfavoritemartian forgets that a gift freely given must be accepted to be competed. And if the person who receives the gift promptly puts the gift in the closet, never to be seen or used the gift has no value or use for the receipient beyond the initial joy at the hand off.

But you forget that the Holy Spirit has sealed us, that the Father has GIVEN us to the Son, and that the Son said that He will in no wise cast us out. You forget that you didn’t save yourself and you can’t keep yourself saved. It is the Lord’s work in each case. Thank God for that; if this wasn’t the case we’d all end up in hell. I don’t expect you to understand this though as you’re not a Calvinist but while I’m researching Catholicism maybe you can research Calvinism. God bless.

 

[Eireann]

**
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast. ,not of works.
Rewards are according to the works of the believer, any believer on either side of the; pulpit or podium**.

Looks very contradicting.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Great thread!

Another Biblical perspective of reward that seems to be curiously absent from the one offered by the OP, is that of St. Paul in his letter to the Romans, Chapter 2. . .

Here St. Paul is clearly talking about salvation as he references “eternal life.” And he clearly says that “God will give to each person according to what he has done.”

Further, he specifies that those who persevere in “doing good” will receive the gift of eternal life. There is an integral connection there that can not be refuted within the whole tapestry of Pauline theology.

I wonder how this justifies in the OP’s biblical perspective and theology?

Jane,
Later in that same chapter you’ll see that the physicallness of what was previously written disappears in that it shows that the work is all done in the heart by the spirit, so how can you say that our efforts directly effect our eternal life.

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[mikeledes]

Jane,
Later in that same chapter you’ll see that the physicallness of what was previously written disappears in that it shows that the work is all done in the heart by the spirit, so how can you say that our efforts directly effect our eternal life.

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 2:6-7 can only be referring to those who have already been justified and thus possess the Spirit. But those who receive the Spirit must sow to the Spirit in order to reap eternal life in the age to come. We sow to the Spirit by doing good. What Paul says in this passage is reaffirmed in other passages:

John 5:28-29

28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Galatians 6:7-9

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature[a]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

1 Timothy 6:18-19

18Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Romans 2:6-7 is clear in what it says and other Bible passages reaffirm it.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Contarini]

Jane,
Later in that same chapter you’ll see that the physicallness of what was previously written disappears in that it shows that the work is all done in the heart by the spirit, so how can you say that our efforts directly effect our eternal life.

Because there is no contradiction between our doing and the Spirit’s doing, if we are walking in the Spirit. See Phil. 2:12-13.

I may not be getting what you are saying here. What do you mean by “the physicalness of what was previously written disappears”?

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Because there is no contradiction between our doing and the Spirit’s doing, if we are walking in the Spirit. See Phil. 2:12-13.

Edwin

Exactly,
Would you agree that walking in the spirit, would require being baptised in the spirit ie. Johns gospel when Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus.

So if we are truly born of the spirit, Holy spirit indwelling in us how can what we do not be acceptable to God? afterall, God dwells in us via the Holy spirit.

and Ephesians reitirates this point.
Eph 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I may not be getting what you are saying here. What do you mean by “the physicalness of what was previously written disappears”?

In Christ,

Edwin

My point was that the latter part of that chapter more or less summarized what they were speaking of, and I was trying to show that I felt Jane was guilty of I think the term you used was proof texting.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

Do the catholics here believe those who make it to heaven will get rewards or do you think getting to heaven is the reward?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

So if we are truly born of the spirit, Holy spirit indwelling in us how can what we do not be acceptable to God? afterall, God dwells in us via the Holy spirit.

.

Romans 8:9 (New International Version)
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

John 20:22 (New International Version)
22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:24 (New International Version)
24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 (New International Version)
8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1:11 (New International Version)
11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Galatians 4:6 (New International Version)
6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[a] Father.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (New International Version)
16Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 3:16 (New International Version)
16Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
2 Timothy 1:14 (New International Version)
14Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Hi,

Do the catholics here believe those who make it to heaven will get rewards or do you think getting to heaven is the reward?

It seems the latter only.

 

[exoflare]

The faith/works thing certain Protestants like to whine about all the time is just a pointless “chicken/egg” debate… Your works are NOT the source of your salvation, and this is what Catholics believe, but on the other hand works are evident in those who truly believe. In other words, doing nothing but sitting around tooting your own horn about how “saved” you are by itself is useless as a reliable indicator of being in God’s grace. You’re trying to separate two sides of the same coin.