Biblical perspective of rewards

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Our Lord, came in the Flesh to redeem us entirely. He came to make our humanity–spirit and flesh–holy. He came to save us body and soul. This is what we mean when we refer to the resurrection of the body, after all! The physical is not unimportant, for it was a Body that carried the Cross. To deny that our behavior, the work of our bodies, is important is to deny the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ who tells us plainly, “anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me” (Matthew 10:38).

Jesus tells us that our work, our carrying of the cross, merits something. He tells us that our carrying of the cross is actually worth something. He tells us that our carrying of the cross makes can make us worthy of Him. He is salvation.
I think you are taking Matt 10:38 about 3 words to far, or as I kindly say…12" (the space between your head and your heart)
Your over thinking this… If you are born again you are willing to take on similar inflictions much like Peter and Paul, that is picking up your cross! Did Peter pick up his cross? yes even after he denied the Lord, Peter dying as a work for the Lord didn’t give Peter salvation, Christ dying for Peter gave Peter salvation. SO in a sense you are right HE is salvation.
 
Oh No we would admit that 😦 We were just talking about it in bible study yesterday. I dont personally know any evangelical/born again christian that thinks they would never sin again or that it is impossible for them to grieve the Holy Spirit. We believe that inside of us is a constant life long struggle between our flesh(sinful nature/old nature) and the Holy Spirit. Sadly we do choose to side with the sinful nature thus confession. Thank God He gave us a way out:thumbsup:
That is true. We Catholics need confession too because of that reason.
 
I don’t think my illness is that bad! 😃

God Bless,
michael
As the answer man said tonight if you expose yourself to false things, in order to get good out of them, you must learn to spit out the bones when you eat the FISH.
God Bless my brother!
Simon
 
I think you are taking Matt 10:38 about 3 words to far, or as I kindly say…12" (the space between your head and your heart)
I appreciate your opinion, Simon. Could you please elaborate? Your interpretation of what is meant by “He who will not take up his cross and come after me is not worthy of me” is of interest to me. I’m not sure which 3 words are problematic for you.
Your over thinking this…
I disagree. Rather, I am relying on the whole gospel which is quite plain and the historical teaching of Christianity. Both inextricably unite the graces of faith, hope, and love (charity) towards salvation in Jesus Christ. The theology I espouse does not disqualify hope and love as essential movements of grace in the Divine plan for man’s salvation.
If you are born again you are willing to take on similar inflictions much like Peter and Paul, that is picking up your cross!
I do not think we’re at odds here. I, too, believe that all Christians are given the grace to follow the holy example of our fathers in faith.
Did Peter pick up his cross? yes even after he denied the Lord, Peter dying as a work for the Lord didn’t give Peter salvation, Christ dying for Peter gave Peter salvation.
I think you are misrepresenting the Catholic position here, Simon. And I think you know it.

Any meritorious work that we could possibly do is a participation in the saving work of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is him crowning his own work in us (St. Augustine). It is our “participation in the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4). It is how we “fill up in [our] flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions” (Col. 1:24). It is how we understand our gift of salvation through the grace of obedience (Heb. 5:9). It is how we "continue to work out [our] salvation with fear and trembling (Philip. 2:12).
SO in a sense you are right HE is salvation.
My “sense” that He is Salvation is not a happy thing I’ve come upon on my own, Simon. It is the Truth. It is the age-old teaching of the Church. And it is only realized as we accept His cross and follow Him. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
God’s justification of works Vs. justifying oneself to gain rewards (crowns) in heaven on his own merit.

Lk 16:15: But he said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

Is it as catholics say that God justifies our works (faith and works), or is it as protestants say that God does not justify by works (faith alone), therefore the only option left is man justifying his own works, relying on his own merits?

In man justifying his own works he does not acknowledge God as the origin of those works

Eph 2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Phil 2:12: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13: for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

This goes against self justification and personal merit. It denies Gods works and instead is the man trying to justify his own works in order to get some gain in heaven. There is no acknowledgement of God working through the man nor giving glory to God for those works. It is the man doing works for personal gain in the sight of God, i.e. crowns in heaven. Is this any different than the mormons who seeks riches in heaven?

Rom 2:6: For he will render to every man according to his works:
7: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

1 Pet 1:17: And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.

Revelation is very poingant with regards to those who rely on their own merits and righteousness for self gain (crowns) instead of relying and acknowleding God as their origin. (The same mistake scripture continually corrects)

Rev 3:1: "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. "I know your works; you have the name of being alive, and you are dead.
2: Awake, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God.

Rev 2:4: But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
5: Remember then from what you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Evangelicals say you will want to do works, this is true, but they were already prepared for us (Eph 2:10). But they deny that God is the justifier of those works ergo they are their own works justified unto themselves in hopes of some gain before God on their own merit and not from the merits of Christ.

Denying to do Gods works rejects that they are Gods works justified. This rejects Gods grace.
Evangelicals preach health and wealth. Promises of wealth on earth and in heaven (crowns) but back to Luke:

Lk 16:13: No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."
14: The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they scoffed at him.
15: But he said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

So what they preach is true, their works are not justified, nor will they be as they are works of men to justify before men… Crowns theology relies on mans merits instead of the merits of Christ

27: For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.

According to evangelical doctrine they will not be judged. This is a false premise. It considers everything they do to be perfect without Gods grace and that they do not sin. As noted above in Revelation, and attested to by the apostles, “every man” will be repayed for what he has done. This includes those who rely on their own merits for crowns, not acknowledging God as the source and justification for those works.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
As the answer man said tonight if you expose yourself to false things, in order to get good out of them, you must learn to spit out the bones when you eat the FISH.
God Bless my brother!
Simon
Having participated in the Campus Crusade for Christ and the Catholic Newman Club and listening to both the answer man and Catholic Answers, I believe that I have learned to do that.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Hi myfavoritemartin! Regarding the “crown of rejoicing”, that is a metaphor Paul uses to describe the Thessalonians, not an actual crown. Concerning the passage from James, the crown is promised to those who love God, not to those who perform superlatively. Likewise, the kingdom is promised to those who love God:

James 2:5
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

Therefore, the crown is not a seaparate reward, but an integral and inseparable aspect of inheriting the kingdom. Reception of the crown is simply a confirmation that one has entered the eternal kingdom. Like the reecption of the diploma at graduation.

The crown of righteousness is the same as the crown of life, just two names for the same thing. Like the crown of life, it is promised to ALL who long for His appearing. Every genuine Christian longs for His appearing, so it is promised to all Christians. The crown of glory is another name for the same crown. Otherwise, you’ll need three heads. What will happen in the case of an elder who has persevered in trial and longs for his appearing? He’ll get three crowns?

God Bless,
Michael
I think the above post I wrote takes care of the crowns/rewards argument. Rewards are not necessarily given to us after death, by the way. We can receive rewards in the present age as well.

God bless,
Michael
 
I was wondering if myfavoritmartin is keeping up with this thread. . .???
 
Rewards can be earthly or heavenly.

I had a conversation with my 9yo today over the term RICH. I explained to him that rich in the form he was using it meant money wealth. Some with worldly wealth are poor in blessings and abilities.

Rich in the terms of God as in blessings and abilities. Blessings and abilities that can be used in the world for the good of all.
 
Tonight!!! :mad: I will not be on tonight! You’ll have to rescehedule. :cool:

God Bless

Michael
Mike,
I’m pretty much done at the end of this month, trying to cut expenses clear up debt, but you my friend I’ll surely miss your wit.
Blessings,
Simon
 
Still hopeful that myfavoritmartin is interested in resolving his thread. . .
 
Mike,
I’m pretty much done at the end of this month, trying to cut expenses clear up debt, but you my friend I’ll surely miss your wit.
Blessings,
Simon
Wait… So is this a goodbye? :crying: I hope everything works out. Aw shucks, who else am I going to tear a… I mean … discuss these weighty issues with. We need you in this forum. No… not in that way. 😃 We need reasoned arguments of intelligent Protestants. That’s the only way you can have a fruitful dialogue and the only way both sides can learn. Remember Proverbs 3:5-6:

**5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.**

I’m sure you’ve read this verse many times and I do not have to remind you. May God bless you and your family.

God Bless,
Michael

P.S. Since you’ll be here till the end of the month, I’ll definitely have to track down your posts and rip … I mean … respond to them. Hope is the last thing to die. 🙂
 
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