N
Nina19
Guest
I need biblical evidence of the Trinity.
- Status
G
Glorthac
Guest
Here’s some things St. Augustine wrote in his book On the Trinity (way too long of a read for the average person)
“‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ (John 1:1)… Now in this passage he clearly shows that he is not only God but also of the same substance as the Father, for after saying ‘and the Word was God,’ he adds, ‘This was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was made nothing.’ (John 1:2) By ‘all things’ he means only what has been made, that is every creature. So it is crystal clear that he through whom all things were made was not made himself. And if he is not made he is not a creature, and if he is not a creature he is of the same substance as the Father.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;’ (John 5:26). From this we can go on to infer that the apostle Paul’s words, ‘who alone hath immortality’ (1 Timothy 6:16), do not refer to the Father alone but to the one and only God which the trinity is. For life everlasting can scarcely be mortal and subject to change, and thus the Son of God, being life everlasting, must also be meant with the Father by the words ‘who alone hath immortality’. After all, it is by becoming partakers in his life everlasting that even we in our own little measure have been made immortal, though the life everlasting we have been made partakers of is one thing, and we who shall live forever by partaking of it are another.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“For ‘who alone hath immortality’ is said in the same way as ‘who performs wonders alone’ (Psalm 72:18). If [this is said] of the Father only, then how can what the Son says be true, that ‘whatever the Father does, the same the Son also does likewise’ (John 5:19). Or which of his wonders is more wonderful than raising and giving life to the dead? Yet the same Son goes on to say, ‘As the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will (John 5:21). How then can it be the Father who alone performs wonders, when these words do not allow us to understand either the Father only or the Son only as doing so, but simply the one true only God, that is Father and Son and Holy Spirit?” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘For to us there is one God the Father from whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things, and we through him’ (1 Corinthians 8:6). Who can doubt that by ‘all things’ he means all that is created, like John in ‘All things were made through him’ (John 1:3)? So I ask whom does he mean in another place with the words, ‘Since from him and through him and in him are all things, to him be glory for ever and ever (Romans 11:36). If he means Father and Son and Holy Spirit, attributing a phrase apiece to each person – ‘from him’, from the Father; ‘through him’, through the Son; ‘in him’, in the Holy Spirit – then it is clear that Father and Son and Holy Spirit is what the one God is, since he concludes in the singular, ‘to him be the glory forever and ever.’ As a matter of fact, he began the expression of this sentiment by saying, ‘Oh the depths of the riches of wisdom and knowledge’, not of the Father or of the Son or of the Holy Spirit, but ‘of God’!” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘The place which makes it most evident that the Holy Spirit is not a creature is the one where we are bidden not to serve the creature but the creator (Romans 1:25) – serve, not in the sense in which we are bidden to serve one another in charity, which is douleuein in Greek, but in the sense in which only God is served, latreuein in Greek, hence the name ‘idolaters’ for those who offer to images the service owed to God. As regards this service it is said, ‘The Lord your God shall you adore, and him only shall you serve’ (Deuteronomy 6:13). This is clearer in the Greek text, which has latreuseis. Accordingly if we are forbidden to serve the creature with such service as this… then the Holy Spirit is certainly not a creature, since all the saints offer him such service, according to the apostle’s words, ‘For we are the circumcision, serving the Spirit of God’ (Philippians 3:3), which in the Greek is latreuontes.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘Do you not know that your bodies are the temple among you of the Holy Spirit, whom you have from God (1 Corinthians 6:19)? Could anything be more insanely sacrilegious than to have the effrontery to call the members of Christ the temple of a creature who is inferior, in these people’s opinions, to Christ himself? For he says earlier on, ‘Your bodies are the members of Christ’ (1 Corinthians 6:15). But if things that are the members of Christ are the temple of the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is not a creature, since we cannot but owe, to one whom we offer our bodies as a temple, that service by which only God is to be served, which in Greek is called latreia. So he says in conclusion, ‘Glorify God therefore in your bodies (1 Corinthians 6:20).” (Book I Chapter 2)
“In the same passage the apostle has just remarked, ‘When it says that all things have been made subject to him, clearly he is excepted who subjected all things to him (1 Corinthians 15:27); and one ought not to think of the Father subjecting all things to the Son without allowing that the Son may also be thought of as having subjected all things to himself. The apostle makes this clear in Philippians: ‘But our residence is in heaven’, he says, ‘from where we are also awaiting as savior our Lord Jesus Christ, who will transfigure the bodies of our lowliness to match the body of his glory, according to the working of that power of his by which he is able to subject all things to himself’ (Philippians 3:20). For the Father’s working and the Son’s are inseparable.” (Book I Chapter 3)
“‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ (John 1:1)… Now in this passage he clearly shows that he is not only God but also of the same substance as the Father, for after saying ‘and the Word was God,’ he adds, ‘This was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was made nothing.’ (John 1:2) By ‘all things’ he means only what has been made, that is every creature. So it is crystal clear that he through whom all things were made was not made himself. And if he is not made he is not a creature, and if he is not a creature he is of the same substance as the Father.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;’ (John 5:26). From this we can go on to infer that the apostle Paul’s words, ‘who alone hath immortality’ (1 Timothy 6:16), do not refer to the Father alone but to the one and only God which the trinity is. For life everlasting can scarcely be mortal and subject to change, and thus the Son of God, being life everlasting, must also be meant with the Father by the words ‘who alone hath immortality’. After all, it is by becoming partakers in his life everlasting that even we in our own little measure have been made immortal, though the life everlasting we have been made partakers of is one thing, and we who shall live forever by partaking of it are another.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“For ‘who alone hath immortality’ is said in the same way as ‘who performs wonders alone’ (Psalm 72:18). If [this is said] of the Father only, then how can what the Son says be true, that ‘whatever the Father does, the same the Son also does likewise’ (John 5:19). Or which of his wonders is more wonderful than raising and giving life to the dead? Yet the same Son goes on to say, ‘As the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will (John 5:21). How then can it be the Father who alone performs wonders, when these words do not allow us to understand either the Father only or the Son only as doing so, but simply the one true only God, that is Father and Son and Holy Spirit?” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘For to us there is one God the Father from whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things, and we through him’ (1 Corinthians 8:6). Who can doubt that by ‘all things’ he means all that is created, like John in ‘All things were made through him’ (John 1:3)? So I ask whom does he mean in another place with the words, ‘Since from him and through him and in him are all things, to him be glory for ever and ever (Romans 11:36). If he means Father and Son and Holy Spirit, attributing a phrase apiece to each person – ‘from him’, from the Father; ‘through him’, through the Son; ‘in him’, in the Holy Spirit – then it is clear that Father and Son and Holy Spirit is what the one God is, since he concludes in the singular, ‘to him be the glory forever and ever.’ As a matter of fact, he began the expression of this sentiment by saying, ‘Oh the depths of the riches of wisdom and knowledge’, not of the Father or of the Son or of the Holy Spirit, but ‘of God’!” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘The place which makes it most evident that the Holy Spirit is not a creature is the one where we are bidden not to serve the creature but the creator (Romans 1:25) – serve, not in the sense in which we are bidden to serve one another in charity, which is douleuein in Greek, but in the sense in which only God is served, latreuein in Greek, hence the name ‘idolaters’ for those who offer to images the service owed to God. As regards this service it is said, ‘The Lord your God shall you adore, and him only shall you serve’ (Deuteronomy 6:13). This is clearer in the Greek text, which has latreuseis. Accordingly if we are forbidden to serve the creature with such service as this… then the Holy Spirit is certainly not a creature, since all the saints offer him such service, according to the apostle’s words, ‘For we are the circumcision, serving the Spirit of God’ (Philippians 3:3), which in the Greek is latreuontes.” (Book I Chapter 2)
“‘Do you not know that your bodies are the temple among you of the Holy Spirit, whom you have from God (1 Corinthians 6:19)? Could anything be more insanely sacrilegious than to have the effrontery to call the members of Christ the temple of a creature who is inferior, in these people’s opinions, to Christ himself? For he says earlier on, ‘Your bodies are the members of Christ’ (1 Corinthians 6:15). But if things that are the members of Christ are the temple of the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is not a creature, since we cannot but owe, to one whom we offer our bodies as a temple, that service by which only God is to be served, which in Greek is called latreia. So he says in conclusion, ‘Glorify God therefore in your bodies (1 Corinthians 6:20).” (Book I Chapter 2)
“In the same passage the apostle has just remarked, ‘When it says that all things have been made subject to him, clearly he is excepted who subjected all things to him (1 Corinthians 15:27); and one ought not to think of the Father subjecting all things to the Son without allowing that the Son may also be thought of as having subjected all things to himself. The apostle makes this clear in Philippians: ‘But our residence is in heaven’, he says, ‘from where we are also awaiting as savior our Lord Jesus Christ, who will transfigure the bodies of our lowliness to match the body of his glory, according to the working of that power of his by which he is able to subject all things to himself’ (Philippians 3:20). For the Father’s working and the Son’s are inseparable.” (Book I Chapter 3)
G
Glorthac
Guest
Here’s more of St. Augustine, and St. Basil the Great’s On the Holy Spirit:
“It might, I suppose, be argued that his saying ‘I shall ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate’ really suggests that the Son by himself does not suffice. Here, on the other hand, is a passage where the Holy Spirit is spoken of as absolutely sufficing by himself: ‘When he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will teach you all truth’ (John 16:13). Is the Son then to be excluded here, as though he did not teach all truth, or as though the Holy Spirit had to supplement what the Son was less able to teach? Let them say if thy like, then, that the Holy Spirit whom they usually call inferior to the Son is greater than he. Or perhaps because it does not say “he alone,” or “nobody but he will teach you all truth,” they will allow us to believe that the Son also teaches with him? Then the apostle in that case excluded the Son from knowing the things that are of God when he said, ‘Thus also the things that are of God no one knows but the Spirit of God’ (1 Corinthians 2:11). So now these perverse people are in a position to say that even the Son is only taught the things that are of God by the Holy Spirit, as an inferior by a superior;” (Book I Chapter 3)
“Then again, what about ‘He who believes in me does not believe in me’ (John 12:44)? In him and not in him – how? How is such a self-contradiction to be understood – ‘He who believes in me,’ he says, ‘ does not believe in me, but in him who sent me’ – unless you take it like this: “He who believes in me does not believe in what he sees,” or our hope would in that case be in something created, but he believes in him who took a created form in which to appear to human eyes, and thereby to purify our minds for contemplating him by faith in his equality with the Father? So when he directs the aim of our faith onto the Father and says ‘does not believe in me but in him who sent me,’ he does not of course want to separate himself from the Father, from him that is who sent him. He wants us to believe in him in the same way as we do in the Father whose equal he is. He says as much quite explicitly elsewhere: ‘Believe in God, believe in me too’ (John 14:1), which amounts to, “Just as you believe in God, so too in me, because I and the Father are one God.”” (Book I Chapter 4)
“There are those others which mark him neither as less nor as equal, but only intimate that he is from the Father, like ‘As the Father has life in himself, so he also gave the Son to have life in himself’ (John 5:26), and ‘Neither can the Son do anything of himself except what he sees the Father doing (John 5:19). If we take the reason for his saying this to be that in the creaturely form he took the Son is less than the Father, it will follow that the Father must first have walked upon the water, and with spittle and mud opened the eyes of another man born blind, and done all the other things done by the Son when he appeared among men in the flesh, to enable the Son to do them too, who as he said could do nothing of himself except what he say the Father doing. Surely nobody, even out of his wits, could have such an idea. So the reason for these statements can only be that the life of the Son is unchanging like the Father’s, and yet is from the Father; and that the work of the Father and Son is indivisible, and yet the Son’s working is from the Father just as he himself is from the Father; and the way in which the Son sees the Father is simply by being the Son.” (Book II Chapter 1)
“‘The Lord does say, ‘When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will teach you all truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears will speak, and will tell you of the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will receive of mine and will tell it to you’ (John 16:14)… This is the moment for those people to wake up if they can, who have imagined that they are supported in proving the Father to be greater than the Son by the Son’s saying, ‘Father, glorify me’ (John 17:5). For here we have the Holy Spirit glorifying him; is he too greater than the Son?” (Book II Chapter 1)
“The Holy Spirit is unmistakably called Lord – where the apostle says, ‘And the Spirit is Lord’ (2 Corinthians 3:17); and in case anyone should consider that he means the Son, and is calling him spirit because of his immaterial substance, he goes on to add, ‘Where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom too’ (2 Corinthians 3:17). And no one can doubt that the Lord’s Spirit is the Holy Spirit.” (Book II Chapter 4)
ST. BASIL THE GREAT’S ‘ON THE HOLY SPIRIT’
“‘There is one God, the Father, from whom are all things… and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things.’ (1 Cor. 8:6) St. Paul does not say this to lay down an arbitrary law of prepositions, but to distinguish between the persons. He writes this not to introduce any division of natures, but to prove that the union of Father and Son is without confusion. It is obvious that the phrases in this passage do not contradict each other, nor do they separate the natures to which they are applied, like army squadrons facing each other in battle. The blessed Paul unites both for the same purpose when he says, ‘for from him and through him and to him are all things.’” (Chapter 5 Section 7)
“‘Sit at my right hand,’ and ‘…He sat down at the right hand of the majesty of God.’ The expression ‘right hand’ does not indicate a lower place as they contend, but a relationship of equality. It cannot be understood as the physical right hand, but rather the Scripture emphasizes the magnificence of the Son’s great dignity. It remains for our opponents to explain how this phrase indicates inferior rank. Let them learn that Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24), and the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15), and the brightness of His glory (Heb 1:3), and the one whom God the Father has sealed (John 6:27), whom the Father has stamped with the image of His Person.
“It might, I suppose, be argued that his saying ‘I shall ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate’ really suggests that the Son by himself does not suffice. Here, on the other hand, is a passage where the Holy Spirit is spoken of as absolutely sufficing by himself: ‘When he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will teach you all truth’ (John 16:13). Is the Son then to be excluded here, as though he did not teach all truth, or as though the Holy Spirit had to supplement what the Son was less able to teach? Let them say if thy like, then, that the Holy Spirit whom they usually call inferior to the Son is greater than he. Or perhaps because it does not say “he alone,” or “nobody but he will teach you all truth,” they will allow us to believe that the Son also teaches with him? Then the apostle in that case excluded the Son from knowing the things that are of God when he said, ‘Thus also the things that are of God no one knows but the Spirit of God’ (1 Corinthians 2:11). So now these perverse people are in a position to say that even the Son is only taught the things that are of God by the Holy Spirit, as an inferior by a superior;” (Book I Chapter 3)
“Then again, what about ‘He who believes in me does not believe in me’ (John 12:44)? In him and not in him – how? How is such a self-contradiction to be understood – ‘He who believes in me,’ he says, ‘ does not believe in me, but in him who sent me’ – unless you take it like this: “He who believes in me does not believe in what he sees,” or our hope would in that case be in something created, but he believes in him who took a created form in which to appear to human eyes, and thereby to purify our minds for contemplating him by faith in his equality with the Father? So when he directs the aim of our faith onto the Father and says ‘does not believe in me but in him who sent me,’ he does not of course want to separate himself from the Father, from him that is who sent him. He wants us to believe in him in the same way as we do in the Father whose equal he is. He says as much quite explicitly elsewhere: ‘Believe in God, believe in me too’ (John 14:1), which amounts to, “Just as you believe in God, so too in me, because I and the Father are one God.”” (Book I Chapter 4)
“There are those others which mark him neither as less nor as equal, but only intimate that he is from the Father, like ‘As the Father has life in himself, so he also gave the Son to have life in himself’ (John 5:26), and ‘Neither can the Son do anything of himself except what he sees the Father doing (John 5:19). If we take the reason for his saying this to be that in the creaturely form he took the Son is less than the Father, it will follow that the Father must first have walked upon the water, and with spittle and mud opened the eyes of another man born blind, and done all the other things done by the Son when he appeared among men in the flesh, to enable the Son to do them too, who as he said could do nothing of himself except what he say the Father doing. Surely nobody, even out of his wits, could have such an idea. So the reason for these statements can only be that the life of the Son is unchanging like the Father’s, and yet is from the Father; and that the work of the Father and Son is indivisible, and yet the Son’s working is from the Father just as he himself is from the Father; and the way in which the Son sees the Father is simply by being the Son.” (Book II Chapter 1)
“‘The Lord does say, ‘When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will teach you all truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears will speak, and will tell you of the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will receive of mine and will tell it to you’ (John 16:14)… This is the moment for those people to wake up if they can, who have imagined that they are supported in proving the Father to be greater than the Son by the Son’s saying, ‘Father, glorify me’ (John 17:5). For here we have the Holy Spirit glorifying him; is he too greater than the Son?” (Book II Chapter 1)
“The Holy Spirit is unmistakably called Lord – where the apostle says, ‘And the Spirit is Lord’ (2 Corinthians 3:17); and in case anyone should consider that he means the Son, and is calling him spirit because of his immaterial substance, he goes on to add, ‘Where the Lord’s Spirit is, there is freedom too’ (2 Corinthians 3:17). And no one can doubt that the Lord’s Spirit is the Holy Spirit.” (Book II Chapter 4)
ST. BASIL THE GREAT’S ‘ON THE HOLY SPIRIT’
“‘There is one God, the Father, from whom are all things… and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things.’ (1 Cor. 8:6) St. Paul does not say this to lay down an arbitrary law of prepositions, but to distinguish between the persons. He writes this not to introduce any division of natures, but to prove that the union of Father and Son is without confusion. It is obvious that the phrases in this passage do not contradict each other, nor do they separate the natures to which they are applied, like army squadrons facing each other in battle. The blessed Paul unites both for the same purpose when he says, ‘for from him and through him and to him are all things.’” (Chapter 5 Section 7)
“‘Sit at my right hand,’ and ‘…He sat down at the right hand of the majesty of God.’ The expression ‘right hand’ does not indicate a lower place as they contend, but a relationship of equality. It cannot be understood as the physical right hand, but rather the Scripture emphasizes the magnificence of the Son’s great dignity. It remains for our opponents to explain how this phrase indicates inferior rank. Let them learn that Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24), and the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15), and the brightness of His glory (Heb 1:3), and the one whom God the Father has sealed (John 6:27), whom the Father has stamped with the image of His Person.
A
AlanFromWichita
Guest
Jesus refers to God as His Father.
Jesus said He will send a helper, aka the Holy Spirit.
What specifically are you required to prove about the Trinity? The mechanics of it are a mystery, but there are three persons with divine purpose and/or capabilities that Jesus refers to throughout the Bible, including Himself.
Alan
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Layp3rs0n
Guest
Do you mean you need Old Testament evidence of the Trinity? All the New Testament evidence is plain as day.
M
mdgspencer
Guest
This question, the Trinity as seen in the Bible, was asked several years ago here. The first posts in this earlier discussion should be helpful. This is at;
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=193716
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=193716
T
Third_Day
Guest
There is no direct proof of the Trinity explicitly in the Bible. If there were there would have been no Arian heresy that denied the Trinity and there would have been no need for the Council of Nicaea. There would be no Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses.
The theological definition of the Trinity comes from the Catholic Church and not explicitly from Scriptures. THe Mormon and Jehovah WItnesses have just as many verses to “prove” that there is no Trinity as Christians have to prove there is.
T
thistle
Guest
Why do you NEED Biblical evidence of the Trinity. Do you reject the Church teaching about God if you do not get it??
J
jedicri
Guest
Matthew 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
The Trinity may also be discerned in Genesis 1: 1-3 in light of John 1: 1-3, 14 and Rev 1: 8.
Gen 1:-3
[1]In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. [2] And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters. [3] And God said: Be light made. And light was made.
Jn 1: 1-3, 14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made; … [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Apoc 1: 8
[8]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
In the Apocalypse, Jesus identifies Himself as *“the beginning”. * St. John in his Gospel identifies Jesus as the “Word” of God made flesh and that nothing was made without Him. Now if one were to substitute the words “the beginning” in Genesis with Jesus’ name, we would have the following: In Jesus God created heaven, and earth.
The Holy Spirit is already present with the words “and the spirit of God moved over the waters.” And so we have the Holy Trinity present at creation.
In Jesus God created heaven, and earth…and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
Since Jesus is God’s mouthpiece here on earth, God the Father “speaking,” ie. “God said,” signifies creation through the Son, by the Holy Spirit since “it was good”.
The Trinity may also be discerned in Genesis 1: 1-3 in light of John 1: 1-3, 14 and Rev 1: 8.
Gen 1:-3
[1]In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. [2] And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters. [3] And God said: Be light made. And light was made.
Jn 1: 1-3, 14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made; … [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Apoc 1: 8
[8]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
In the Apocalypse, Jesus identifies Himself as *“the beginning”. * St. John in his Gospel identifies Jesus as the “Word” of God made flesh and that nothing was made without Him. Now if one were to substitute the words “the beginning” in Genesis with Jesus’ name, we would have the following: In Jesus God created heaven, and earth.
The Holy Spirit is already present with the words “and the spirit of God moved over the waters.” And so we have the Holy Trinity present at creation.
In Jesus God created heaven, and earth…and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
Since Jesus is God’s mouthpiece here on earth, God the Father “speaking,” ie. “God said,” signifies creation through the Son, by the Holy Spirit since “it was good”.
A
achmafooma
Guest
Hello!
While there is plenty of ‘circumstantial’ evidence in Scripture of the Trinity, as described above, it is never explicitly explained.
In fact, I often use this line of argument in my discussions with my Protestant ‘sola scriptura’ friends…they say that devotion to Mary is un-biblical, so I point to the volume of circumstantial evidence…then they say that if it isn’t spelled out in Scripture, it isn’t true, and I shouldn’t be reading so much between the lines…so I ask them to point out where the Trinity is spelled out in Scripture. It’s usually about that time the subject gets changed
.
God bless you!
While there is plenty of ‘circumstantial’ evidence in Scripture of the Trinity, as described above, it is never explicitly explained.
In fact, I often use this line of argument in my discussions with my Protestant ‘sola scriptura’ friends…they say that devotion to Mary is un-biblical, so I point to the volume of circumstantial evidence…then they say that if it isn’t spelled out in Scripture, it isn’t true, and I shouldn’t be reading so much between the lines…so I ask them to point out where the Trinity is spelled out in Scripture. It’s usually about that time the subject gets changed
.God bless you!
T
Third_Day
Guest
You are absolutely correct. The fact that the Trinity is not explicitly in scripture supports the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption that is also not explicitly in scripture.Hello!
While there is plenty of ‘circumstantial’ evidence in Scripture of the Trinity, as described above, it is never explicitly explained.
In fact, I often use this line of argument in my discussions with my Protestant ‘sola scriptura’ friends…they say that devotion to Mary is un-biblical, so I point to the volume of circumstantial evidence…then they say that if it isn’t spelled out in Scripture, it isn’t true, and I shouldn’t be reading so much between the lines…so I ask them to point out where the Trinity is spelled out in Scripture. It’s usually about that time the subject gets changed
God bless you!
Those who claim the Trinity is obvious in scripture must ignore the passages that the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses use to prove there is no Trinity.
The fact is the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicaea used her authority to infallibly interpret scripture and give us the doctrine of the Trinity that is used by all who call themselves Christians.
J
jericho777
Guest
The word trinity doesn’t appear in scripture but the Trinity clearly does. If you carefully read scripture there are abundant examples of the triune nature of God. It would take many hours to type an exhaustive response. Here is a small sample.
Gen. 1:26 Then God (Elohim Is the singular plural of God who is one) said, "Let us (reference to the Godhead) make man in our image, in our likeness. Also Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text.
Dt. 6:4 Hear O Israel the LORD our God the LORD is one.
Shema Israel YHWH Elohim YHWH echad
שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃
Elohim is plural for God. Yet God is saying He is one. This is the same word for God in Gen 1:1
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(Theos), and the Word was God(Theos).
Jesus is worshipped in scripture which if He was not God would be a sin. Luke 24:50-52, Mat. 28:16-18, Mat.2:2, Mat. 14:33
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are explicitly called YHWH in scripture. Mat 1:23, Titus 2:13, Rom 9:5 ,Heb 10:15-18, The JW’s have changed scriptures and where they have not they deny the obvious in favor of their anti Trinitarian doctrines.
The Trinity is contained in this one verse and are coequal. YHWH will never share His glory with any other. Mat. 25:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Gen. 1:26 Then God (Elohim Is the singular plural of God who is one) said, "Let us (reference to the Godhead) make man in our image, in our likeness. Also Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text.
Dt. 6:4 Hear O Israel the LORD our God the LORD is one.
Shema Israel YHWH Elohim YHWH echad
שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד׃
Elohim is plural for God. Yet God is saying He is one. This is the same word for God in Gen 1:1
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(Theos), and the Word was God(Theos).
Jesus is worshipped in scripture which if He was not God would be a sin. Luke 24:50-52, Mat. 28:16-18, Mat.2:2, Mat. 14:33
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are explicitly called YHWH in scripture. Mat 1:23, Titus 2:13, Rom 9:5 ,Heb 10:15-18, The JW’s have changed scriptures and where they have not they deny the obvious in favor of their anti Trinitarian doctrines.
The Trinity is contained in this one verse and are coequal. YHWH will never share His glory with any other. Mat. 25:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
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Nina19
Guest
I need it because I am defending my faith. I am told that the Catholic Church is a hoax therefore my faith would be for nothing.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
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Alan
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Alan
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Who are these people telling you this?I need it because I am defending my faith. I am told that the Catholic Church is a hoax therefore my faith would be for nothing.
Are they fundamentalists? Absolute literalists? Sola Scriptura? Do they make the claim (contrary to CCC 337 which refers to the creation story as “symbolic”) that every word in the Bible, including the book of Genesis is literally true – and that even to suggest it requires “interpretation” is to deny God Himself?
If they are, I just learned something interesting that might help.
If they ask you to defend a church teaching that “obviously” contradicts the Bible, tell them you will answer them if they can answer one question about the Bible.
Ask them this: how many pairs of each kind of animal did God command Noah to take into the ark?
Whatever their answer is, then ask them which version of the story of Noah do they believe is literally true, the one at Genesis chapter 6 verse 18, or the one at Genesis chapter 7 verse 1?
If they say, both, then ask them why one and seven are the same number here, but the seven days of creation cannot possibly mean one, six, eight, or any other number.
If that doesn’t get through to them, give up or prepare to have your sanity tested.
Alan
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Jesus_123
Guest
+As a Bible teacher of both children and adults . . . I’ve come to absolutely love the clear way the reliable Catholic Baltimore Catechism approaches the basics of the Faith . . . below are quotes from same which contain specific Biblical references from Sacred :bible1: Scripture . . . the easily approached question-and-answer format is a marvelous teaching tool . . . great for the students . . . great for the teachers . . . hope this helps . . .
**. . . :coffeeread: . . . **
**. . . :coffeeread: . . . **
The Unity and Trinity of God
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism
24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.
I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)
25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)
26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)
27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)
29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.
Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)
30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: “Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased.”** (Luke 3:22)**
31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.
I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)
32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.
33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.
34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God’s word for it.
:coffeeread: Link: catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson03.html
Lesson 3 from the Baltimore Cathechism
24. Is there only one God?
Yes, there is only one God.
I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. (Isaiah 45:5)
25. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)
26. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Corinthians 1:3)
27. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
28. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (I Corinthians 3:16)
29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.
Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28:19)
30. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: “Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased.”** (Luke 3:22)**
31. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.
I and the Father are one. (John 10:30)
32. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.
33. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.
34. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God’s word for it.
:coffeeread: Link: catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson03.html
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You dear Lord Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
:harp:
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You dear Lord Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
:harp:
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments. Could the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father?
Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
God the Father loves God the Son with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
Could the spirit be the power of love working through the greatest
commandments? Here is a short passage that links the spirit and the second commandment.
1 Samuel 18
Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Jesus loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
God the Father loves God the Son with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength.
The Father loves each and every one of us as he loves himself.
Could the spirit be the power of love working through the greatest
commandments? Here is a short passage that links the spirit and the second commandment.
1 Samuel 18
- Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.
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Big_Dummy
Guest
google Bowman outline trinity doctrine
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Third_Day
Guest
Sounds like you are speaking to Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons who deny the Trinity.I need it because I am defending my faith. I am told that the Catholic Church is a hoax therefore my faith would be for nothing.
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Third_Day
Guest
I could never say that the Trinity is “Clearly” in scripture. It isn’t. That is why the Council of Nicaea was called in AD 325 to combat the Arians who used scripture to “prove” there was no Trinity…
A few verses used by the Jehovah Witnesses are John 17:1-3, John 20:17 and Acts 7
John 17:1-3 “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent”
John 20:17- Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to **my Father **and your Father, **to my God **and your God.’”
A Jehovah Witness will say that even AFTER Jesus was resurrected, Jesus STILL has a God and that we should have that same God.
Another good verse for them is Acts 7:55-56 where Stephen is dying and he is full of the Holy Spirit he looks into heaven and sees Jesus standing at the fight hand of the Father.
Those verses hardly show One God or Three Persons in One God. The Trinity is not clearly in scripture.
- Status