Biblical Proof Text of the Trinity: All Christian Apologists welcome to join.

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Delling in Kittel’s Theological Dictionary Of The New Testament on page 479 made an important statement that needs to be kept in mind while looking at occurrences of ARCHE, “ARCHE always signifies “primacy,” whether in time “beginning,” principium or in rank: “power,” “dominion,” “office.” As a foundation, Rev. 3:14 needs to be put in the context of the entire book of Revelation. In 1:5, Jesus is called the (Ruler) ARCHON over the Earth’s Kings. ARCHON obviously overlaps in meaning with ARCHE as can be seen from a check of the standard lexicons. In 1:17, Jesus is “The First and The Last” as in 2:8 and 22:13. YHWH in the Old Testament has this name in Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12. In Rev. 5:13-14, a picture is given of “One sitting on the throne” and “to the Lamb” receiving worship. In 22:13, Jesus is given three names: The First and The Last, The Beginning and The End, and The Alpha and The Omega. This gives Jesus the same names of the Almighty as in 1:8 and 21:6. This is the high Christology of Revelation.
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What we have in Rev. 3:14 are three active titles for Jesus. The first title is The Amen. This is most probably the same title of YHWH in Isaiah 65:16. His second title is “The Faithful and True Witness.” His third title is “The Ruler over God’s creation.” It could also mean ‘Source.’ Ruler or Source are both active titles in this context. Beginning does not fit the immediate or the wider context. Some who want ARCHE to have a passive use (see Objections, below). By doing this, they destroy the parallelism of the titles. I understand the genitive in Rev. 3:14 to be objective.
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forananswer.org/Rev/Rv3_14.htm
 
If someone knows how to develop this argument please do so,

Thanks
Daniel

Homilies on First Timothy (Chrysostom) > Homily 7
Ver. 5. “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men.”
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He had before said, “to come to the knowledge of the truth,” implying that the world is not in the truth. Now he says, “that there is one God,” that is, not as some say, many, and that He has sent His Son as Mediator, thus giving proof that He will have all men to be saved. But is not the Son God? Most truly He is; why then does he say, “One God”? In contradistinction to the idols; not to the Son. For he is discoursing about truth and error. Now a mediator ought to have communion with both parties, between whom he is to mediate. For this is the property of a mediator, to be in close communion with each of those whose mediator he is. For he would be no longer a mediator, if he were connected with one but separated from the other. If therefore He partakes not of the nature of the Father, He is not a Mediator, but is separated. For as He is partaker of the nature of men, because He came to men, so is He partaker of the nature of God, because He came from God. Because He was to mediate between two natures, He must approximate to the two natures; for as the place situated between two others is joined to each place, so must that between natures be joined to either nature. As therefore He became Man, so was He also God. A man could not have become a mediator, because he must also plead with God. God could not have been mediator, since those could not receive Him, toward whom He should have mediated. And as elsewhere he says, “There is one God the Father,…and one Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. viii. 6.); so also here “One” God, and “One” Mediator; he does not say two; for he would not have that number wrested to Polytheism, of which he was speaking. So he wrote “One” and “One.” You see how accurate are the expressions of Scripture! For though one and one are two, we are not to say this, though reason suggests it. And here you say not one and one are two, and yet you say what reason does not suggest. “If He begat He also suffered.” “For there is one God,” he says, “and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.”
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newadvent.org/fathers/230607.htm

"Peculiar to Christ’s sacrifice are the infinite value of Victim, which give the sacrifice an infinite value of expiation and as merit. "
newadvent.org/cathen/10118a.htm

"Reply to Objection 3. The dignity of Christ’s flesh is not to be estimated solely from the nature of flesh, but also from the Person assuming it–namely, inasmuch as it was God’s flesh, the result of which was that it was of infinite worth. "
newadvent.org/summa/4048.htm

The above are limited readings into what I am thinking about.

The argument I want to develop is Christ as an angel or mere creature will be an incomplete, finite atonement. Such a sacrafice would be inadequate to cover all man’s sins for all time.

That an adequate atonement requires Christ to be fully man to represent mankind, but also fully God to have infinite value.

How would you go about developing this arguement?
 
John 1

43The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, “Follow me.”
44Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

46"Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?" Nathanael asked.
“Come and see,” said Philip.

47When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false.”

48"How do you know me?" Nathanael asked.
Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.”

49Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel.”

50Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that." 51He then added, “I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I think the above texts support the omniprescence of Christ.

Do they?

Can you think of any other texts that bring out attributes of God in Christ?
 
Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

We know that the Holy Spirit is divine because he proceeds form the Father, but we are told that he is also the Spirit of Christ and as such Jesus would have to share the same divine nature as the Father too because we know that the Holy Spirit does not share the human nature of Chrsit.
 
Hebrews 13:8 (New International Version)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
 
Isaiah 44:6,24 (English Standard Version)
Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god….Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Revelation 1:17, 18 (English Standard Version)
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. **I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. ** (Sounds like Jesus)

Jesus uses the same title in Revelation for himself as was used By God in Isaiah.
 
101 Answers to 101 Questions to Ask Jehovah’s Witnesses Using the NWT e-watchman.com/questions/101-questions-jehovahs-witnesses-nwt.html

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jesus+Jehovah+alpha+omega+first+last+mighty+questions+for+Jehovah%27s+Witnesses

Names and Titles applied to the Holy Ghost.
Following we will find,

His personality and Divinity, and His co-operation in the work of redemption, with the Father and Son.

He is called,
  1. Holy Ghost. Mark 12:36. Luke 1:15, John 7:39, and many other places, Matt.1:18, “She (Mary) was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”
  2. Holy Spirit. Isa.63:10-11, Luke 11:13, Eph.1:13, 1 Thes.4:8, Ps.51:11, “Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.”
  3. Holy Spirit of God. Eph.4:30, “grieve not the Holy Spirit of God.”
  4. The Spirit. Gen.1:2, 41:38. Ex.31:3. Job 27:3. Matt.3:16, Rom.8:9, and so also n a large number of passages in both the Old and New Testaments. Rom.8:14, “as many as are led by the Spirit of God.”
  5. The Spirit of the Lord. Isa.11:2, 59:19, 2 Cor.3:17, Acts 5:9, “How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?”
  6. The Spirit of the Lord God. Isa.61:1. Luke 4:18, Jesus said, “The Spirit of the LORD is upon me.”
  7. The Spirit of the Father. Matt.10:20, “the Spirit of the Father which speaketh in you.”
  8. The Spirit of Jesus Christ. Phil.1:19, “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.”
  9. The Spirit of Christ. Rom.8:9. 1 Pet.1:11, “the Spirit of Christ which was in them.”
  10. The Spirit of the Son. Gal.4:6, “God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son.”
  11. The Eternal Spirit. Heb.9:14, “who through the Eternal Spirit offered Himself.”
  12. The Free Spirit. Ps.51:12, “uphold me with thy free (generous) Spirit.”
  13. The Good Spirit. Neh.9:20, “Thou gavest also thy good Spirit to instruct them.”
  14. The seven Spirits of God, Rev.1:4, “the seven Spirits which are before His throne.”
  15. The Voice (the voice of the Spirit) of the Almighty. Ez.1:24, “like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty.”
  16. The Voice of the Lord. Isa.6:8. Gen.3:8. Deut.4:30, 8:20, “ye would not be obedient unto the Voice of the LORD your God.”
  17. My Spirit: Thy Spirit: His Spirit: Gen.6:3, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man.” Joel 2:28. Isa.42:1, 44:3. Ps.104:30, and many other places. 1 John 4:13, “He hath given us of His Spirit.”
  18. The Spirit of Adoption. Rom.8:15, “ye have received the Spirit of adoption.”
  19. The Spirit of burning. Isa.4:4, “purged the blood of Jerusalem – by the Spirit of burning.”
  20. “The Spirit of counsel.” Isa.11:2.
  21. “The Spirit of faith,” 2 Cor.4:134.
  22. “The Spirit of the fear of the LORD.” Isa.11:2.
  23. “The Spirit of Glory.” 1 Pet.4:14.
  24. “The Spirit of Grace.” Heb.10:29. Zech…12:10.
  25. “The Spirit of Holiness.” Rom.1:4.
  26. “The Spirit of Judgement.” Isa.4:4, 28:6.
  27. “The Spirit of knowledge.” Isa.11:2.
  28. “The Spirit of Life.” Rom.8:2. Rev.11:11.
  29. “The Spirit of Love.” 1 Tim.1:7.
  30. “The Spirit of Might.” Isa.11:2.
  31. “The Spirit of Promise.” Eph.1:13.
  32. “The Spirit of Prophecy.” Rev.19:10.
  33. “The Spirit of Revelation.” Eph.1:17.
  34. “The Spirit of Supplication.” Zech.12:10.
  35. “The Spirit of Truth.” John 14:17, 15:26, 16:13. 1 John 4:6.
  36. “The Spirit of Understanding.” Isa.11:2.
  37. “The Spirit of Wisdom.” Eph.1:17. Ex.28:3. Deut.34:9. Isa.11:2.
  38. “The Breath (Spirit) of the Almighty.” Job 33:4.
  39. “The Comforter.” John 14:16-26, 16:7.
  40. “The Power of the Highest.” Luke 1:35.
  41. “An Unction from the Holy One.” 1 John 2:20. compare, John 14:26, 16:13-14.
  42. “The Spirit is Truth.” 1 John 5:6.
 
The Personality and Divinity of the Holy Ghost.
  1. He is called God. Acts 5:3-4, 1 Cor.3:16, with 1 Cor.6:19.
  2. He is called the LORD of Jehovah." Compare Acts 28:25, with Isa.6:8-9. Compare Heb.3:7-9, with Ex.17:7. Compare Heb.10:15-16, with Jer.31:31-34.
  3. Blasphemy against Him the one unpardonable sin. Matt.12:31-32.
  4. Perfections of God are ascribed to Him.
    a. Eternal existence. Heb.9:14. Eternal meaning, Perpetual, everlasting, eternal.
    b. Omniscience. 1 Cor.2:10-12. “the Spirit searcheth all things.”
    c. Omnipresence. 1 Cor.3:16. 1 Cor.6:19. Ps.139:7, “Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?”
    d. Omnipotence. 1 Cor.12:4-11, “the – Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.”
  5. Works of Divine power are attributed to Him.
    a. Begets the Son of God. Luke 1:27-35. Matt.1:18-25.
    b. Anoints Jesus for His work. Luke 4:18-21.
    c. Communicates supernatural gifts. 1 Cor.12:1-11.
  6. Works of Divine power, etc.
    a. Convinces man of sin. John 16:8.
    b. Admits him to the Father. Eph.2:18.
    c. Enlightens his mind. 1 Cor.2:10.
    d. Regenerates his soul. John 3:5-6.
    e. Sanctifies man’s nature. 1 Cor.6:11.
    f. Endows man with Christian graces. Gal.5:22-23.
    g. Seals him to eternal life. Eph.1:13-14, 4:30.
    h. Reveals future events. Luke 2:26.
    I. Inspires the prophets. 2 Pet.1:21. Acts 1:16, 28:25. Eph.6:17.
  7. He is distinctly named as a person in the Godhead.
    a. In the baptismal formula. Matt.28:19.
    b. In the apostolic benediction. 2 Cor.13:14.
    c. One of the witnesses in heaven. 1 John 5:7.
Co-operation of the Holy Ghost in the work of redemption.
His ministrations.
  1. He instructs man.
    a. By inspiration of the Bible. 1 Pet.11-12. 2 Pet.1:21, 2 Tim.3:16. Acts 1:16, 28:25. 1 Cor.2:12-13. Heb.3:7. Eph.6:17, “the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”
    b. By direct teaching. John 14:26, 16:13-14. 1 Cor.2:9-14. Eph.1:17. 1 John 2:20-27. Luke 1:67-70, Luke 2:26-27.
  2. Regenerates men. John 3:5-6, with Matt.28:19, and John 6:63. Rom.8:4-13. Titus 3:5. Job 33:4, “The Spirit of God hath made me.”
  3. Makes man the child of God. Rom.8:14-17. Gal.4:6-7.
  4. Gives the power of prayer and prays with and for man. Rom.8:26-27. Eph.2:18, 6:18.
  5. Gives and increases Faith. 1 Cor.2:14, 12:3-9. 1 John 4:2. Jude 20. Gal.5:5. 2 Cor.
    4:13, “We having the same Spirit of faith.”
  6. Enables man to bring forth good fruit to God’s glory. Gal.5:22-23. 1 Pet.1:22. 2 Tim.1:7. Eph.5:9, “For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.”
  7. He sanctifies man. 2 Thes.2:13. 1 Pet.1:2-22. 1 Cor.12:13, 6:11. Rom.8:2-5-9-13, Rom.15:16, “being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”
  8. How we may obtain the Holy Spirit.
    a. In answer to prayer. James 1:5-7. Luke 11:13, “how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”
b. By Faith. Eph.1:13. Gal.3:2-3-14. John 7:38-39, Jesus said he that believeth on me, — out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake He of the Spirit."

c. By repentance and obedience. Acts 2:38. Titus 3:5. 1 Pet.3:21.
  1. If we keep our Lord’s commandments, the Holy Ghost will abide with us for ever. John 14:15-17.
  2. If we are Christians, we are His temple. 1 Cor.3:16, 6:19, “know ye not that you body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you.”
  3. We must live as becomes His Holy Presence. 1 Cor.3:17, 6:19-20, “ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit.”
  4. Eph.4:30, “grieve not the Holy Spirit of God.”
seekfirstwisdom.com/view/?pageID=226468
 
Bishopite said:
Steve,

The term “Son of God” means to be of the same nature as God–of the same substance as the Council of Nicea 325 AD explained by using the word Greek word “homoousios” to describe Jesus Christ as the “same substance of God”. The “Son of God” is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God, is to in fact claim to "be God,” This was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being…”
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The phrase was quite common in Judaism. Using it would not incite hatred.
 
Valke2 said:
The phrase was quite common in Judaism. Using it would not incite hatred.
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Using that phrase as claiming you are equal to God was NOT common and it would very much be inciteful to the Jews that’s why they picked up stones to kill Jesus. The Jews knew VERY well what Jesus was claiming in John 8:53-59 when He said Abraham who lived thousands of years earlier “rejoiced to see My day”
And Jesus said “before Abraham was I Am” [ego eme in Greek] which is a direct quote from Exodus 3:14 when God told Moses to tell Pharoah of the name of whom you have sent; I AM=God.
Moreover, the REAL reason the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus was to kill Him, because they knew the law and the consequences of breaking it.
Jesus according to them broke the law, the first commandment of Exodus 20…you shall have no other gods before Me…
Jesus is claiming to be “God” and the devout Jews knew it, that’s why they picked up stones to throw at Him.
But also, notice the implicitness of verse 59 where Jesus hid from them. Quite a few times Jesus was in large crowds, yet He managed to get away without being hurt. No mere mortal man could be so lucky, only a man with divine attributes could do such.
53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?"
54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’
55 You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."
**59 ****So they picked up stones to throw at him; but **Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

In the context of John 8:53-58 Jesus IS claiming divinity with the Father, that He is eternal being He was around at the time of Abraham. The JW’s are wrong historically and Biblically as both attest to Jesus being divine, God from God, light from light, true God, begotten NOT made, one in being with the Father, through Him all things were made, for us men and for our salvation, He came down from heaven…"
This is the early creed that the early Christians proclaimed.
 
YOu give a lot of examples that don’t mention “Son of GOd”. Again, that phrase was not uncommon. IN and of itself, it would not incite hatred in the Jewish community at the time. In fact, that phrase comes from our scipture. Jesus didn’t just make it up.

The term could be applied to a holy man, a pious individual. Someone that does miracles in God’s name. It can be found in various places, including Psalm 82, where it refers to princes/judges. It is also a term that would be applied to a king of Israel and is used as such in II Samuel, Chapter 7.

It is also used to refer to the entire people of Israel in Exodus and Hosea.

In short, the definition that Christians apply to the phrase today is different from the definition that was applied in the time of Jesus.
 
One other thing. It seems odd that Jews would on the spur of the moment, pick up stones to kill someone. There was a Court system in place and the use of the death penalty was extremely rare and would be carried out only from an official verdict that was given from a particular place within the courtyard of the Temple.

Of course, John’s Gospel says what it says, and I don’t expect you to question it.
 
[Valke2;3019321]YOu give a lot of examples that don’t mention “Son of GOd”. Again, that phrase was not uncommon. IN and of itself, it would not incite hatred in the Jewish community at the time. In fact, that phrase comes from our scipture. Jesus didn’t just make it up.
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I take it that you are addressing my last post since yours follows next.
I never mentioned the term “Son of God” you did. You are arguing something that I never addressed. 🤷
My argument is for the term “I AM” in John 8:58 where Jesus quotes Exodus 3:14 after the Lord says to Moses, go tell Pharoah that “I AM” sent you.
Jesus is making Himself out to be the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14 when He says it in John 8:58 that’s why those Jews who were conversing with Him picked up stones to throw at Him; they knew He was claiming to be THE God by claiming He had an eternal existence, that’s what the term “I AM” means as Jesus said He was there prior to Abraham.
The term could be applied to a holy man, a pious individual. Someone that does miracles in God’s name. It can be found in various places, including Psalm 82, where it refers to princes/judges. It is also a term that would be applied to a king of Israel and is used as such in II Samuel, Chapter 7.
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Right, but who’s arguing that point? I agree with you on that point, I would say that all of the references you give are typological examples of Jesus fulfilling all of the references of “Son of God.”
It is also used to refer to the entire people of Israel in Exodus and Hosea.
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Sure again, as a type of Sons of God. Israel is the first born Sons of God, our big brothers and sisters. Jesus is the first born of God (begotten NOT made), He fulfills the Old Testament types.
In short, the definition that Christians apply to the phrase today is different from the definition that was applied in the time of Jesus.
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No, you are incorrect here. Catholic Christian scholars don’t view the Biblical texts from 21st century lense. Catholicism starts with the literal view of the text, which means what the author intended to convey to his/her readers at the time it was written. A contextual literal view of the text starts with the genre of the time, and accounts for idiomatic phrases used in the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages. This is not an idiomatic phrase.
The phrase “I AM” means the same thing as it did 5000 years ago with Moses, as it did 2000 years ago with Jesus; the eternal existence of God. It has always and still means the same thing in Christian scholarship, the eternal existence of God, ergo, Jesus is claiming eternal existence by saying He was there before Abraham and that’s why they picked up stones to throw at Him. that’s why He Christianity rightly refers to Jesus as eternally begotten NOT made.
 
Valke2 said:
One other thing. It seems odd that Jews would on the spur of the moment, pick up stones to kill someone. There was a Court system in place and the use of the death penalty was extremely rare and would be carried out only from an official verdict that was given from a particular place within the courtyard of the Temple.

Of course, John’s Gospel says what it says, and I don’t expect you to question it.
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I don’t question John’s gospel at all, 1 Cor 1:18.
There was a court system, yes but there was also justice done at the moment. What you are falsely assuming is that ALL Jews at that time would automatically wait for an appointment with the court. That didn’t happen all of the time, sometimes the Jews as does any unsettled crowd of all types of people, take matters into their own hands and serve what they deem as self inflicted “justice” at that moment and Jesus had both events happening at that time.
The Pharisees/Saducees were trying to kill Him by using the courts and they eventually succeded in having Him put to death by paying off Judas with thirty pieces of silver, who betrayed Jesus and then Pharisees/Saducees with the crowds convinced Pontius Pilot to let Barabas (a true criminal) go free and Jesus died on a cross.
And the crowds who didn’t like what Jesus said at times picked up stones to kill Him at that moment but interestingly Jesus got away from their mist.
 
Bishopite said:
I don’t question John’s gospel at all, 1 Cor 1:18.
There was a court system, yes but there was also justice done at the moment. What you are falsely assuming is that ALL Jews at that time would automatically wait for an appointment with the court. That didn’t happen all of the time, sometimes the Jews as does any unsettled crowd of all types of people, take matters into their own hands and serve what they deem as self inflicted “justice” at that moment and Jesus had both events happening at that time.
The Pharisees/Saducees were trying to kill Him by using the courts and they eventually succeded in having Him put to death by paying off Judas with thirty pieces of silver, who betrayed Jesus and then Pharisees/Saducees with the crowds convinced Pontius Pilot to let Barabas (a true criminal) go free and Jesus died on a cross.
And the crowds who didn’t like what Jesus said at times picked up stones to kill Him at that moment but interestingly Jesus got away from their mist.
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That’s another thing. Why wouldn’t Jesus submit to the Court if they called him to account? What better place for him to state his case? Who was Jesus speaking to when they picked up stones? Was it the Pharisees? If so, that makes the scenario even more unlikely in my mind.

Not to mention that had they stoned jesus, those jews would have been subject to the charge of murder and would have themselves been brought before the Sanhedrin. Or simply crucified by the ROmans for rioting.
 
Bishopite said:
I take it that you are addressing my last post since yours follows next.
I never mentioned the term “Son of God” you did. You are arguing something that I never addressed. 🤷
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Go back and re’read the thread. I had stated that “son of God” was a term that Jews were familiar with and would not have incited them to throw stones. You responded:

“Using that phrase as claiming you are equal to God was NOT common and it would very much be inciteful to the Jews that’s why they picked up stones to kill Jesus”
No, you are incorrect here. Catholic Christian scholars don’t view the Biblical texts from 21st century lense.
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That is not quite what I had said. I said that one has to start with the assumption that Jesus is God and then look backward for proof of the assumption in the texts of the Jewish Bible. If you never heard of Jesus there is nothing in the Tanakh which points to him as Messiah or God.
 
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