Biblical Reference to the Rapture

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I think you meant to say that pre-tribulational premillennialism is a heretical teaching. Amillennialism is in fact the orthodox teaching that the current age is the millennium.

Among the early church fathers there were some premillennialists like Justin Martyr. However none of them held to a pre-tribulational rapture, a concept unheard of until the 19th century.
Hello Cat Herder,

Yes, you are correct: it should be “millennium” (thanks! 🙂 )

Nonetheless, amillennialism, although very closely a teaching of the Church, notwithstanding, is not a term that the Church applies to its teachings. See The Rapture (teachings) in Catholic Answers.

I quote from: www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

*" What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term." *

Here is a very good link that also teaches correctly “Raptured or Not: A Catholic Understanding”
www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/…/ac1005.asp

I quote:
*What’s a Catholic to believe?

We began with several questions: What is the Catholic teaching on the Rapture? There is none; there is no traditional Christian teaching on the Rapture. It is a late, and rather suspect, arrival on the scene.

Will Catholics be raptured? No, of course not, but then neither will be anyone else. But we are left behind with one final—and most important—question. It is not about the future, the question, Will I be taken up by the Rapture? Rather, it’s more about a present question: Will I be taken in by it?

Michael D. Guinan, O.F.M., Ph.D., is a professor of Old Testament, Semitic languages and biblical spirituality at the Franciscan School of Theology in Berkeley, California.*

thank you, and God bless 🙂 (I guess it’s just a matter of semantics 😉 )
 
Hi Doxiemom,

No, the 144,000 are not Jews.🤷 This number is symbolic and ancient Jews (and those who converted to Christianity) used a numerical system called gematria. That is also why they used this number system to hide the name of Nero (his name added up to 666),

The square of 12, which is the number of the Tribes of Israel (12 X 12), multiplied by 1,000 (a number meaning MANY - too many to count) symbolic of the New Israel (the Church), that embraces people from every nation, race, people, and tongue (see vs. 9 of Rev 7:1-9) and the 144,000 whose foreheads were sealed represent ALL Christian people. (Rev 14)
We will have to disagree on this. Guess both you and i will find out who is right one day.
 
It will have references if the the distinct people Israel have the prophetic importance the scriptures say they do.
I don’t understand…you seem to be saying the Bible “will have references if…”…don’t we know for sure whether or not the Bible has such references? What is conditional (noted by your using “if”) about what is in the Bible? Thanks for any clarification.
 
The 144,000 are all Israelites and servants of God, and will be so when this takes place in the future during the 7 years prophetically alloted for Israel (Rev7/Dan9:24).. These Israelite’s servitude to God may lead to the multitudes from peoples of every nation, tribe, people and language spoken of in Revelation chapter 7, verses 9 and 10.
So according to your interpretation are the 144,000 people who have existed in the past, who exist now, or who will exist in the future? Or a mix?

Are you suggesting that this number is interpreted only literally?

thanks, again, for any clarification.
 
The rapture idea probably comes from Calvinists who are worried whether they are predestined to salvation. So from them comes “once saved, always saved”. They appear to want to be certain about salvation. I believe it was invented by Rev Darby in the mid-19th century.
 
Here are all the Biblical passages that refer to a pretribulation rapture:
 
Hmm, Methnks more Bible reading is needed. And just to get an idea of what the rapture-seeking Protestants are thinking, please visit prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com/ and read several of the Pro and Con pages. Marilyn Agee is searching to understand the puzzle presented by Revelations and the clues scattered throughout the rest of the Bible. By the way Sir Isaac Newton spent a great deal of time doing this also. After doing this, I’m betting you have different questions for the group here!

Harpazo!!

John Keebaugh
 
Hmm, Methnks more Bible reading is needed. And just to get an idea of what the rapture-seeking Protestants are thinking, please visit prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com/ and read several of the Pro and Con pages. Marilyn Agee is searching to understand the puzzle presented by Revelations and the clues scattered throughout the rest of the Bible. By the way Sir Isaac Newton spent a great deal of time doing this also. After doing this, I’m betting you have different questions for the group here!

Harpazo!!

John Keebaugh
I tried to read the link, but it was difficult, because it made no sense whatsoever. None. It’s difficult to respond to gibberish, but perhaps we can discuss whether Jesus’ throne is really on Saturn.
 
I tried to read the link, but it was difficult, because it made no sense whatsoever. None. It’s difficult to respond to gibberish, but perhaps we can discuss whether Jesus’ throne is really on Saturn.
I’m sure Marilyn will reply to any question you may have. I believe her email address is on the bottom of the main page. Go for it!
 
Here is my to-the-point, one word scriptural reference for a pre-tribulation rapture-
Israel.

That pretty much covers from Genesis to Revelation, no matter how many books are in your bible. 🙂
What is Israel?

The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord’, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:31-34)

Jesus established a new and everlasting covenant with the world (not just one race or nation). Heb 9:15, John 3:16. Notice that Paul describes the New Covenant to the Hebrews and clearly states that its promises are applicable to them. The pre-trib/dispensational/rapture system says that the Jews are not supposed to partake in the New Covenant. The Bible says they are.

Moreover, the OT prophets said that the New Covenant would be established with Israel. It was actually established with the entire world. So, is there really a difference between Jews and Gentiles anymore?

[BIBLEDRB]Galatians 3:28-29[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Romans 2:6-11[/BIBLEDRB]

So what is Israel? The same thing that she has always been–the People of God, whether Jew or Gentile, slave or free. Israel is the Church.

A precise picture of the relationship between the Gentile Christians and the Jews is given by Paul, with an olive tree as a metaphor:

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 11:13-24[/BIBLEDRB]

The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. But this is nothing new; go and ask any rabbi if Israel has ever been restricted to Abraham’s lineal offspring. The answer is no.

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 12:43-49[/BIBLEDRB]

It is eminently clear that dispensationalism/pre-trib rapturism rests on an unbiblical distinction between Israel and the Gentiles which Jesus Christ died to erase.
 
What is Israel?

The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord’, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:31-34)
Sounds like an exact people are being referred to here, namely the descendants of Jacob, ethnic Israel. Especially in the sentence-“It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord.”
Jesus established a new and everlasting covenant with the world (not just one race or nation). Heb 9:15, John 3:16. Notice that Paul describes the New Covenant to the Hebrews and clearly states that its promises are applicable to them.
Yes He did, agreed. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world(John 1:29). But remember, “…for salvation is from the Jews.”(John4:22) There has always been a believing remnant. And some of that remnant was faithful and obedient to Jesus Christ for bringing the Gospel to the Gentiles also.
The pre-trib/dispensational/rapture system says that the Jews are not supposed to partake in the New Covenant.
Does not. In fact it stresses that the Gospel of Christ should be taken to the Jews first if it is possible.
The Bible says they are.
Yup
Moreover, the OT prophets said that the New Covenant would be established with Israel. It was actually established with the entire world. So, is there really a difference between Jews and Gentiles anymore?
And it was established with them, and still is.

The nations(gentiles) are grafted in with the remnant of Israel(chosen people/believers in the gospel of Jesus as the Son of God, etc.) which make up the Church, both are one in Christ.

In Christ there is no difference. Outside of Him, well, yes and no. Romans 11:32 declares of all men- For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. On hardened Israel and the godless nations-
Acts 4:23-26
On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:
“‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.


But the differences are at the second advent of Jesus to Israel. The hardened, broken off nation of Israel will be saved by Jesus from the nations. The gentiles at that time, what are known as the survivors of the nations(Zech14:16) will be let into the Kingdom reign of Christ on Earth by Christ because they treated His brethern well who were in need(Joel 3/Matthew25:31-40).
So what is Israel?
The descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The same thing that she has always been–the People of God, whether Jew or Gentile, slave or free. Israel is the Church.
Because “all Israel” at this time is not saved but will be saved, the Church are the remnant of believing Israel are joined and made one with believing Gentiles in Jesus Christ. The Church has the distinction and honor of being the bride of Christ, and we proclaim the truth of the Gospel starting at the Pentecost after the ascension of Christ until the pre-tribulation rapture, which is a imminent event. Sometime after that, the last seven years alotted for Israel to finish(Daniel9:24) will begin, in which that time the Church marries her Bridegroom in heaven(Rev19:6-9). And in short, the 7 years will end with Jesus coming back a second time to save unsaved Israel (Then all Israel will be saved) and to judge the nations, then the 1000 year reign on earth, then the judgement of the dead at the white throne and then eternity.
A precise picture of the relationship between the Gentile Christians and the Jews is given by Paul, with an olive tree as a metaphor:

The Gentiles are grafted into Israel. But this is nothing new; go and ask any rabbi if Israel has ever been restricted to Abraham’s lineal offspring. The answer is no.
And what a wonderful picture that is. Jew and Gentile equal, made one in Christ. So long as the wild shoots by nature do not become conceited over the broken off natural branches.
It is eminently clear that dispensationalism/pre-trib rapturism rests on an unbiblical distinction between Israel and the Gentiles which Jesus Christ died to erase.
Nothing I wrote above is “unbiblical”. Christ did take down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile. But outside Him, well prophecy of scripture states exactly what comes of the two at the end of the age.
 
Sounds like an exact people are being referred to here, namely the descendants of Jacob, ethnic Israel. …
The descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Dispensationalism (the pre-tribulation rapture system) is founded on the concept of a purely ethnic Israel—which is unbiblical as stated above. That’s a very good reason to reject it. But here is another: you do not realize what you have gotten yourself into.

If you accept dispensationalism as it is taught by Tim LaHaye and his followers, you believe that the Jews will return to animal sacrifices and that God will accept these sacrifices as atonement for sins, disregarding the One Perfect Sacrifice of His only begotten Son.

It gets worse. If you accept Mr. LaHaye’s teaching, you also accept:


  1. *]That the world’s Jews have no right of self-determination, and must leave their country and be concentrated in the State of Israel
    *]That upon being gathered in the state of Israel, two-thirds of the world’s Jews will die in the Tribulation
    *]That although the antichrist is the immediate actor of this genocide, it is, in fact willed by God and described by LaHaye as “Jehovah’s extraordinary work”

    Does that sound just a little familiar?

    I could use much harsher words… but I’ll just say that LaHaye and dispensationalism is wrong, wrong, wrong.
 
Please help me understand the Biblical references to the Rapture, and why you believe in this idea. TYIA and God Bless! x-posted to Non-Catholic Religions
Regardless of the thoughts on it, it’s basically irrelevant: we are to persevere in faith, hope and love until the end of time. And the end of time is either our own lives or of the world and it really doesnt matter which we experience. The rapture is an irrelvent diversion from the more pressing matters at hand: persevering in faith, hope and love through love of God and neighbor.
 
Regardless of the thoughts on it, it’s basically irrelevant: we are to persevere in faith, hope and love until the end of time. And the end of time is either our own lives or of the world and it really doesnt matter which we experience. The rapture is an irrelvent diversion from the more pressing matters at hand: persevering in faith, hope and love through love of God and neighbor.
I agree wholeheartedly. As Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount:
(Matthew 6:34) Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.
 
I do not see evidence for the rapture by Rev Darby or by the recent postings. The rapture is an invention of the dispensationalists who want the “chosen people” to be spared the end times tribulation. Does John’s Revelation really talk about the end of the world or the fall of the Roman empire?When Jesus talked about the end times, did He mean to always be prepared for death? Some people become paranoid about being saved, yet fail to realize what Jesus said about turning people away who did not feed Him when He was hungry, give Him water when He was thirsty, …
 
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