Biblical Reference to the Rapture

[Vince1022]

Here is my to-the-point, one word scriptural reference for a pre-tribulation rapture-
Israel.

That pretty much covers from Genesis to Revelation, no matter how many books are in your bible.

Are you saying a one word answer (Israel) responds to everything on this thread?

Really?

I don’t understand. Please clarify. Thank you.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

The Pre Tribulation rapture does not fit with the Holy Scriptures, Jesus a few times seems to explicitly deny it in parable and His other words.

Matthew 13:25-30

He proposed another parable to them. 9 "The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

25
While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds 10 all through the wheat, and then went off.
26
When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.
27
The slaves of the householder came to him and said, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?’
28
He answered, ‘An enemy has done this.’ His slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29
He replied, ‘No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.
30
Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."’"

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and** I will raise him on the last day**.-John 6:44

 

[QuickCat]

So, in a conversation with my betrothed regarding the 3 days of darkness, we stated discussing the Rapture, and the Biblical nature of the idea of the Rapture.
I googled “Biblical References to the Rapture”, and came up with this site: What is the Rapture?. As I have gone through the Bible verses, I see how the idea of the Rapture can be inferred, but I also see how the idea of the dead and the live are taken to Heaven for Judgement.

Please help me understand the Biblical references to the Rapture, and why you believe in this idea.

TYIA and God Bless!

x-posted to Non-Catholic Religions

The rapture [the catching away] is a valid Biblical doctrine. Unfortunately, both Catholics and non-Catholics confuse the catching away as described by Paul with the 2nd coming as described in Matthew 24, etc. The catching away of all church-age believers is found only in Paul’s epistles, e.g. 1 Thess. 4:13-18, Titus 2:13; 1 Cor. 15:51ff. Paul says that we should “comfort one another with these words” [1 Thess. 4:18]. Further, he calls this doctrine “our blessed hope” [Titus 2:13]. At that time we believers will be changed [1 Cor. 15:51ff]. What a blessed doctrine!

 

[paul_c]

The rapture [the catching away] is a valid Biblical doctrine. Unfortunately, both Catholics and non-Catholics confuse the catching away as described by Paul with the 2nd coming as described in Matthew 24, etc. The catching away of all church-age believers is found only in Paul’s epistles, e.g. 1 Thess. 4:13-18, Titus 2:13; 1 Cor. 15:51ff. Paul says that we should “comfort one another with these words” [1 Thess. 4:18]. Further, he calls this doctrine “our blessed hope” [Titus 2:13]. At that time we believers will be changed [1 Cor. 15:51ff]. What a blessed doctrine!

I think you are overstating your case:
1 corinthians:
50 This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thess:
16 For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together 4 with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, saving all
12 and training us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live temperately, justly, and devoutly in this age,
13 as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to deliver us from all lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people as his own, eager to do what is good.

Only 1 Thess even mentions rising to the sky and it that one it follows those that are already dead. It has nothing to do with the Rapture. It simply is discussing the last day. Titus is simply waiting for Jesus. ! corinthians is desribing our heavenly bodies.

 

[Lev23]

Dispensationalism (the pre-tribulation rapture system) is founded on the concept of a purely ethnic Israel—which is unbiblical as stated above. That’s a very good reason to reject it. But here is another: you do not realize what you have gotten yourself into.

If you accept dispensationalism as it is taught by Tim LaHaye and his followers, you believe that the Jews will return to animal sacrifices and that God will accept these sacrifices as atonement for sins, disregarding the One Perfect Sacrifice of His only begotten Son.

It gets worse. If you accept Mr. LaHaye’s teaching, you also accept:

1. 
   *]That the world’s Jews have no right of self-determination, and must leave their country and be concentrated in the State of Israel
   *]That upon being gathered in the state of Israel, two-thirds of the world’s Jews will die in the Tribulation
   *]That although the antichrist is the immediate actor of this genocide, it is, in fact willed by God and described by LaHaye as “Jehovah’s extraordinary work”
   
   Does that sound just a little familiar?
   
   I could use much harsher words… but I’ll just say that LaHaye and dispensationalism is wrong, wrong, wrong.

1. 
   You crafted quite a scenario here by going from LaHaye to the wiki link of Hitler.
   
   But what is wildly unbiblical is practice of denying ethnic Israel from the prophecies of scripture that speak of them. This has taken form over the years in writings, websites, synods and councils, etc. They have done nothing but raise question or doubt over unsaved Israels prophetic role in God’s plan for the last days.

 

[Lev23]

I do not see evidence for the rapture by Rev Darby or by the recent postings. The rapture is an invention of the dispensationalists who want the “chosen people” to be spared the end times tribulation.

The scriptures speak volumes of ethnic Israel and the land restored by the Messiah at His coming, what Christians know of His second coming. There is no “invention” going on. Though amillennialists might have to “reinvent” to get around these scriptures…

Does John’s Revelation really talk about the end of the world or the fall of the Roman empire?

The end of the age, then the millennial reign of Jesus, then eternity. Rome never fell like what is described in Revelation.

When Jesus talked about the end times, did He mean to always be prepared for death? Some people become paranoid about being saved, yet fail to realize what Jesus said about turning people away who did not feed Him when He was hungry, give Him water when He was thirsty, …

Jesus did give specifics about end-times events, as well as being prepared for death.

 

[Cat_Herder]

But what is wildly unbiblical is practice of denying ethnic Israel from the prophecies of scripture that speak of them.

Tell that to Jesus…

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 3:8[/BIBLEDRB]

Ask any rabbi; not everyone who is a lineal descendant of Abraham is a Jew. And many people who are NOT lineal descendants of Abraham are Jews.

And did you actually read what LaHaye said about what will happen to “ethnic Israel”? How on earth can you agree with that?

 

[paul_c]

I’m sorry, bu you have been mislead. There is only one second coming, at which time the world will end. you are very confused by revelations. As for Ethnic Israel taking over teh earth physically - the Jews thougth that too and were really confounded to find that Jesus heralded a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. You are falling into the same trap.

 

[Lev23]

Tell that to Jesus…

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 3:8[/BIBLEDRB]

And the remnant of Israel have always brung fruits of repentence, and so will hardened ethnic Israel at the time of Jesus’ second coming to Israel.

Ask any rabbi; not everyone who is a lineal descendant of Abraham is a Jew. And many people who are NOT lineal descendants of Abraham are Jews.

And did you actually read what LaHaye said about what will happen to “ethnic Israel”? How on earth can you agree with that?

No I did not read anything by LaHaye.

 

[Lev23]

I’m sorry, bu you have been mislead. There is only one second coming, at which time the world will end. you are very confused by revelations.

Actually, amillennialism tends to teach “3 comings”. For some say that Christ came in the person of the Roman armies in 70 AD to destroy Jerusalem and disperse the Jews into all nations. You seem confused over Revelation. At Christ’s second coming, there is a 1000 year reign of the Messiah from Jerusalem(spoken voluminously in the OT), then eternity, or what you call, “the end of the world”.

As for Ethnic Israel taking over teh earth physically - the Jews thougth that too and were really confounded to find that Jesus heralded a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. You are falling into the same trap.

Jesus’s Kingdom is spiritual and physical. Just look at the miracualous(lion lying down with the lamb,etc.) events prophesied about in that Kingdom age that cannot happen now. His 1000 year reign is not about ethnic Israel “taken over the earth”, but the nations flowing there to worship Jesus.

 

[Cat_Herder]

No I did not read anything by LaHaye.

You might want to check the links in the above post. They are to the Google Books copy of LaHaye’s “Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy.” It’s… disturbing.

 

[Lev23]

You might want to check the links in the above post. They are to the Google Books copy of LaHaye’s “Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy.” It’s… disturbing.

I probably wont in all honesty.

But what is the issue of animal sacrifices in the 1000 year kingdom?

 

[Cat_Herder]

I probably wont in all honesty.

But what is the issue of animal sacrifices in the 1000 year kingdom?

Don’t you find it in the least bit ironic that Catholics are accused of making Calvary redundant by re-presenting Christ, but it’s okay if the Jews do the same thing with rams and bulls instead of Christ?

 

[Lev23]

Don’t you find it in the least bit ironic that Catholics are accused of making Calvary redundant by re-presenting Christ, but it’s okay if the Jews do the same thing with rams and bulls instead of Christ?

Jesus Christ runs the world in person during the 1000 year reign. The sacrifices in the millennium are not for the Jews saved at the second coming or for the bride of Christ, the Church. These sacrifices are for the nations that come up to year to year to worship the Lord at Jerusalem(Zech14). At Christ’s second advent, the nations will be judged for how they treated the Lord’s brethern in the 7 year tribulation(Joel 3/Matthew25, etc.). Those found to be “sheep” enter in the Lord’s Kingdom reign in their natural bodies, which mean there will be those born in the 1000 year reign(the child will play by the hole of the asp, etc.).

Zechariah 14:16-19
Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

In the Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ, the truth that Jesus overcame evil with God’s sacrificial love will fill the whole earth. The nations will either accept Jesus as their atoning sacrifice or will approach Him with a sacrifice at the temple. For all must approach God with a sacrifice. These sacrifices of bulls and goats look back at the cross, just like the sacrifices in the OT looked foward to it. Difference is, these people actually will have the sacrificed, risen, glorified Lamb of God there in Jerusalem to come to.

Hebrews 10:3-4
But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

And by looking at all scripture, some will stick to the animal sacrifices or refuse to come up to Jerusalem all together. And those that do this will be those who are deceived by satan when he is unchained at the end of the 1000 year reign to gather them to go up battle Jesus.

Revelation 20:7:10
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[John7]

Jesus Christ runs the world in person during the 1000 year reign. The sacrifices in the millennium are not for the Jews saved at the second coming or for the bride of Christ, the Church. These sacrifices are for the nations that come up to year to year to worship the Lord at Jerusalem(Zech14). At Christ’s second advent, the nations will be judged for how they treated the Lord’s brethern in the 7 year tribulation(Joel 3/Matthew25, etc.). Those found to be “sheep” enter in the Lord’s Kingdom reign in their natural bodies, which mean there will be those born in the 1000 year reign(the child will play by the hole of the asp, etc.).

In the Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ, the truth that Jesus overcame evil with God’s sacrificial love will fill the whole earth. The nations will either accept Jesus as their atoning sacrifice or will approach Him with a sacrifice at the temple. For all must approach God with a sacrifice. These sacrifices of bulls and goats look back at the cross, just like the sacrifices in the OT looked foward to it. Difference is, these people actually will have the sacrificed, risen, glorified Lamb of God there in Jerusalem to come to.

And by looking at all scripture, some will stick to the animal sacrifices or refuse to come up to Jerusalem all together. And those that do this will be those who are deceived by satan when he is unchained at the end of the 1000 year reign to gather them to go up battle Jesus.

who’ve you been listening to?..Jack van Impe, Jack Chick, and John Hagee?
(they’re all premil dispensationalists too)

 

[QuickCat]

I think you are overstating your case:
1 corinthians:
50 This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thess:
16 For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together 4 with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, saving all
12 and training us to reject godless ways and worldly desires and to live temperately, justly, and devoutly in this age,
13 as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to deliver us from all lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people as his own, eager to do what is good.

Only 1 Thess even mentions rising to the sky and it that one it follows those that are already dead. It has nothing to do with the Rapture. It simply is discussing the last day. Titus is simply waiting for Jesus. ! corinthians is desribing our heavenly bodies.

Man, you will be really be surprised when my LORD Jesus Christ catches me away in the rapture. I pray that He catches you away, too.

Grace and Peace,

QC

 

[paul_c]

Man, you will be really be surprised when my LORD Jesus Christ catches me away in the rapture. I pray that He catches you away, too.

Grace and Peace,

QC

you are right about that. Not judging you of course. But Jesus said that on the last day he would return in a cloud as he left. He didn’t say anything about people being caught away in a rapture before the end times. That is a modern view that is seemingly without merit.

 

[Vince1022]

The rapture [the catching away] is a valid Biblical doctrine. Unfortunately, both Catholics and non-Catholics confuse the catching away as described by Paul with the 2nd coming as described in Matthew 24, etc. The catching away of all church-age believers is found only in Paul’s epistles, e.g. 1 Thess. 4:13-18, Titus 2:13; 1 Cor. 15:51ff. Paul says that we should “comfort one another with these words” [1 Thess. 4:18]. Further, he calls this doctrine “our blessed hope” [Titus 2:13]. At that time we believers will be changed [1 Cor. 15:51ff]. What a blessed doctrine!

Titus 2:13 does not refer to the rapture.

 

[Vince1022]

You crafted quite a scenario here by going from LaHaye to the wiki link of Hitler.

But what is wildly unbiblical is practice of denying ethnic Israel from the prophecies of scripture that speak of them. This has taken form over the years in writings, websites, synods and councils, etc. They have done nothing but raise question or doubt over unsaved Israels prophetic role in God’s plan for the last days.

What does this have to do with the so-called “rapture”?

 

[Vince1022]

Jesus Christ runs the world in person during the 1000 year reign.

Where does that idea come from?